Make regular FSDs viable again

[Rip_Steakface]

It’s been a few months, but I think it’s not too late to fix the current situation in which regular FSDs have become useless. I have seen other players express this sentiment, so I would like to present our case here in the suggestions subforum.

Gameplay-wise, it makes no sense to baiscally take the old drives out of the game. It would be better if regular FSDs regained at least some sort of advantage (e.g. range-wise). It would be easy to find an in-universe explanation for this sort of development.

This would a) add options and depth to the game and b) not aggravate people who participated in a grind or tedious hauling CGs to receive special / presumably unique items which are now worthless.

The only conceivable reason for FDev to make SCO FSDs better than regular ones in every regard is monetary, as the new ships they are selling for real money are optimized for the new drives. I am absolutely fine with the new, more active/aggressive monetization policy, but not when it affects gameplay in a negative way.
I think a 10-15% range advantage for regular FSDs would be perfect to make them a viable and interesting option, but I would also be happy with a small range advantage (5-10%) that would at least bring them back as a niche object for certain uses, while surely not hurting FDevs revenue generated by the new ships.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The only conceivable reason for FDev to make SCO FSDs better than regular ones in every regard is monetary, as the new ships they are selling for real money are optimized for the new drives.

Not the only conceivable reason - as the SCO FSDs, when fully engineered, offer better jump range than regular FSDs - and are on a par with the CG reward double engineered FSDs (albeit without the fast boot) - so the SCO FSDs serve a purpose in that regard, as the only double engineered FSD that was made available from Tech Brokers is the Size 5.

 

[Darrack]

The only conceivable reason for FDev to make SCO FSDs better than regular ones in every regard is monetary, as the new ships they are selling for real money are optimized for the new drives

So far they have only released one new ship that is stable (more) with an SCO and you wouldn't really want to take it on a long trip, i see the T8 being the same.
The old CG FSDs have been around a while now and it was about time that parity was restored.
The FSD is only part of possible jump range for exploration and also depends on whether you want to fly a paper jobby or have some survival.
Yes the old 5A CG FSD which has been my mainstay is now eclipsed by the SCO version but the CG 6A actually has a greater range than the 6A SCO on an Annie - admittedly only 0.27 but ....

O7

 

[Greasetrap42]

It’s been a few months, but I think it’s not too late to fix the current situation in which regular FSDs have become useless. I have seen other players express this sentiment, so I would like to present our case here in the suggestions subforum.

a) Original Regular FSD
b) Double Engineered FSD V1
c) New SCO FSD
d) OP Proposed FSD W/ Advantage

After outfitting ships with (a) then to (b) then (c) I'm really not excited about an idea to introduce (d) Another FSD W/ Advantage.

If FDev turns around and says "Hey, remember those G5 Engineered FSD's from a couple years ago that became obsolete and players with big fleets got rid of because of limited module space? ..... Well guess what? Now we gave them new features that make them good again".

Hey, what the what? NO THANKS. @%$n**$

 

[Doctor Dread]

Felicity, are you reading this?

Think, talk with Ram Tah on modifying your previous jobs, do something! Make this SCO boost modification for your previous maxed-out Long Range drives. They don't need to have the better range, let it stay the same, just make them have a boost like these ***** new thingies have.

 

[Ameeleean2]

I'm glad we have new FSD type and I do have small fleet of ships...which are rarely used. Most of the time I do not need SCO boost so replacing old drives for newer ones is not necessary- jump range matters but only if I want to travel longer distances a bit faster. I would certainly replace all my FSDs (even most of SCO ones), if they had ability to burn like 45% of fuel tank in one jump in exchange of longer charging time.

 

[Fixitman]

Regular FSD's didn't change at all, so they are still viable. Upgrading an entire fleet for a few extra LY range is what's not viable for some of us. I don't like SCO on anything that isn't optimized for it (PM2 for now), so I see no reason to change. I'm sure I'm not alone on this.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

Making the old FSD viable again ? Easy: Put them to the tech brokers as a one time unlock per size and with all possible double engineered variants. I'd kill for an increased range/shielded variant, as that would allow my most hot running ships to add mass manager instead of thermal spread. The already established increased range/faster boot sequence still has it's uses where the 2s reboot really counts. And finally faster boot sequence/shielded would be nice on PvP ships, I'd think.

 

[yianniv]

Regular FSD's didn't change at all, so they are still viable. Upgrading an entire fleet for a few extra LY range is what's not viable for some of us. I don't like SCO on anything that isn't optimized for it (PM2 for now), so I see no reason to change. I'm sure I'm not alone on this.

To be honest I kinda like the uncontrollable ludicrous speed of SCOs. It reminds me a bit of Spaceballs, and never fails to make me smile. That's the prism I see them through.

 

[Greasetrap42]

Regular FSD's didn't change at all, so they are still viable. Upgrading an entire fleet for a few extra LY range is what's not viable for some of us. I don't like SCO on anything that isn't optimized for it (PM2 for now), so I see no reason to change. I'm sure I'm not alone on this.

Any ship that a cmdr expects will be regularly traveling +4000 Ls greatly benefits from the SCO, saving lots of time.

• Exploration (DSS scanning planets, especially around secondary stars)
• Exobiology
• Material farming (HGE, Live Thargoids, Dead Thargoids, Guardian & Thargoid ground bases, Crystal Shard Planets)
• Running Trade Routes
• General missions

I upgraded half my fleet, but I started with the 5 ships I fly 90% of the time.

Edit: I don't have any Regular Class 5 FSDs anymore. They all got upgraded a couple years ago. Whenever the Double Engineered FSD V1 was released.

 

[Gut]

I have a Class 5A FSD in my ASP , it can jump 40ly's , as that is all I need to drift around endless space.

 

[Fixitman]

Any ship that a cmdr expects will be regularly traveling +4000 Ls greatly benefits from the SCO, saving lots of time.

• Exploration (DSS scanning planets, especially around secondary stars)
• Exobiology
• Material farming (HGE, Live Thargoids, Dead Thargoids, Guardian & Thargoid ground bases, Crystal Shard Planets)
• Running Trade Routes
• General missions

I upgraded half my fleet, but I started with the 5 ships I fly 90% of the time.

Edit: I don't have any Regular Class 5 FSDs anymore. They all got upgraded a couple years ago. Whenever the Double Engineered FSD V1 was released.

Exploration isn't about getting there fast, it's about what you find on the way. A fully engineered 5A SCO on a DBX will get about 10% more jump range, sure. Using SCO out in the black while carrying 7+ digits worth of data is a disaster waiting to happen. That may be mitigated if FDev releases an SCO optimized exploration ship. Even then, it may see limited use by careful explorers.

 

[Greasetrap42]

Exploration isn't about getting there fast, it's about what you find on the way. A fully engineered 5A SCO on a DBX will get about 10% more jump range, sure

For exploration SCO isn't for jumps. It is for traveling in supercruise. Going to planets that are +4,000 Ls away. Especially those secondary stars that are +100,000 Ls away.

I'm not sure what the risk is with using SCO in supercruise. Its not hard to watch the fuel gauge.

Also, anybody launching their exploration and exobiology ships from their fleet carrier are likely not using paper thin min-maxed tin cans.

 

[Fixitman]

For exploration SCO isn't for jumps. It is for traveling in supercruise. Going to planets that are +4,000 Ls away. Especially those secondary stars that are +100,000 Ls away.

I'm not sure what the risk is with using SCO in supercruise. Its not hard to watch the fuel gauge.

Also, anybody launching their exploration and exobiology ships from their fleet carrier are likely not using paper thin min-maxed tin cans.

Many see exploration as a relaxing activity. No FC to drag around, just a paper airplane with a scoop. Flailing around at ludicrous speed, while guzzling fuel, and rapidly overheating is not relaxing.

I'm all for improving the original FSDs, but it's not necessary. They've been great for relaxing exploration for many years. The title of this thread is "Make regular FSDs viable again". I'm just saying they never stopped being viable. They certainly aren't useless as the OP stated.

 

[Releaux]

Put me in the “how are they not viable?” camp. My fleet is out in the black. I have jumped my main exploration ship back to the bubble for an SCO retrofit because leaving a planet surface is so much faster that I now drop down to more places, but none of my other ships are any less than what they were before. I like the way FDev went about adding this QoL improvement.

As for the FDev profit motive, I’m probably more cynical than most here about that, but the SCO drive doesn’t really fit. The easier explanation is that technology advances. Why should that be any different in the 3300s?

I also hope it sparks an arms race among the tech companies and we see even more variations. How about an FSD-HE that has the same jump range, but XX% better fuel efficiency? Would make scoopless bubble transit and hauling faster. There are all sorts of places this can go.

 

[Greasetrap42]

I'm all for improving the original FSDs, but it's not necessary. They've been great for relaxing exploration for many years. The title of this thread is "Make regular FSDs viable again". I'm just saying they never stopped being viable. They certainly aren't useless as the OP stated.

If a cmdr is in deep space on long term trip with no fleet carrier, it means they don't have a fleet of ships that they alternate between. That cmdr is focused on a single ship for long periods of time. Upgrading a single ship with a new FSD is not a significant endeavor. Updating a fleet of ships is not an issue. Of course that cmdr would need to return to human space to obtain the SCO and engineer it with mass mgr.

The regular FSDs are "viable". Obviously they work. But there are better options. The regular FSDs were obsolete a couple years ago when the, Double Engineered FSD V1 was released. Especially for exploration. At this point I would not recommend someone purchase a regular class 5 FSD and spend the resources to G5 engineer it with mass mgr.

 

[Rip_Steakface]

Many see exploration as a relaxing activity. No FC to drag around, just a paper airplane with a scoop. Flailing around at ludicrous speed, while guzzling fuel, and rapidly overheating is not relaxing.

I'm all for improving the original FSDs, but it's not necessary. They've been great for relaxing exploration for many years. The title of this thread is "Make regular FSDs viable again". I'm just saying they never stopped being viable. They certainly aren't useless as the OP stated.

I don't want to argue about semantics... maybe you could argue that the old drives are still "viable", but they have no more need to exist. The new SCO can do everything at least as well, even if you don't hit the boost button. It is simply not a good gameplay decision to introduce a module that makes another module obsolete, when both could have easily co-existed as options with their individual pros and cons.
I tend to agree, though, that it's not THAT big of a deal. It took me mere hours to grind the materials to outfit my main ships with G5 SCO drives. It's more like a small missed opportunity to add some additional depth when it comes to choosing your drive. And maybe I just didn't like the thought of my pre-engineered FSDs getting obsolete, since getting them didn't exactly involve my favorite gameplay loops back then

 

[Releaux]

I don't want to argue about semantics... maybe you could argue that the old drives are still "viable", but they have no more need to exist. The new SCO can do everything at least as well, even if you don't hit the boost button. It is simply not a good gameplay decision to introduce a module that makes another module obsolete, when both could have easily co-existed as options with their individual pros and cons.
I tend to agree, though, that it's not THAT big of a deal. It took me mere hours to grind the materials to outfit my main ships with G5 SCO drives. It's more like a small missed opportunity to add some additional depth when it comes to choosing your drive. And maybe I just didn't like the thought of my pre-engineered FSDs getting obsolete, since getting them didn't exactly involve my favorite gameplay loops back then

In terms of “would I buy a non-SCO drive now?” yeah, you’re correct. The SCO variant is clearly superior*, but I hadn’t bought a standard for any ship that could fit the V1 since it came out, so they’ve been long-replaced for me.

I think if changes/new drives are to come, it will be under the guise of a trade war / corporate competition. At least, that’s how I’d write it in… Sirius Corp certainly hasn’t been painted as a shrinking violet in the lore.

*Edit/Footnote: I don’t have plans to retrofit most of my ships To an SCO. Maybe the courier and the T9, but everything else is fine and it wouldn’t be worth the engineering to replace. Although… with the new engineering changes…

 

[Kissamies]

I have locked my suggestion in many similar topics ago: Have Sirius release a firmware update (explanation of everyone's drives being upgraded on the spot) that significantly loosens up the safety limits on their FSDs. This would increase the multiplier to jump range gained from jet cone and fuel injection boosts, but the drive would take more damage from them.

SCO would still be more desirable for most, but the old FSD would have a niche for couriers, Colonia runners and such.