Make the engineering grind remotely palatable

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I like to upgrade my ships but I would sure hate to rely on it.

And after a year and half, I have a third iteration cobra and orca that I consider reasonably hot rods versus stock. They'd be hotter if I learned to mine and unlock some more engineers. You'd probably all compare them to your favourite cookbook and point out their glaring faults right away, surely I need more engineering.

I'd much rather push the limits of what I consider a fair fight in a stock sidewinder, than have a font of free materials. But I'm in no rush. Isn't it fitting though if you are in a rush, it's a grind?

And when it comes down to it, it's a bunch of mini-games anyway.. solvin the travelling salesman problem in an open cycle mapping planets (or in 3d picking up materials righ tin the scoop!). Lunge around in the SRV catching materials before they hit the ground. Earn the materials by exploding hapless victims. It's like Mary Poppins, and you make the job a game, with the spoon full of sugar. If you lose the joy in that, are you grinding too hard? Just a thought. O7

There are no fair fights. The bulletsponge is already there. Hence 'the rush'.
It's a vain effort though: Once you finish the "rush" you get the next round of powercreep being introduced.
Exciting new recipes. Better equipment. "Rush" my rear - it's just a vicious cycle of grind instead of interesting open world ganwplay.
Oh look these new storylines. Gotta grind to take part though.
I mean it would be so bad if they made it sensible and accessible. But it's got to be a slog so the player hours accumulate on the excel sheets to tell a story of success. Fun it isnt though, just Skinner boxed "excitement". I been at casinos, my thrills didnt come from rolling the dice - I had more fun drinking Martinis at the roulette rable. And I dont need to visit xasinos for that.

 

[EdzUp]

One thing that comes to mind here is;
1) the five people have already paid for the game so are already customers and fdev have the money.

I think the main point is how to retain the attention of those playing the game enough so they want to buy the new expansion, to this end fdev are basically moving everyone to 4.0 at some point and this will be the main codebase. Nobody wants to be left behind which is where fdev hopes they can keep your attention.

If engineering isnt your thing there are several other things in the game you can do instead

 

[Dox Paradox]

In 700 hours of game, I've met aggressive player OP ships maybe twice while not particularly searching PvP.
One was a ganker at Deciat. I wasn't aware at that time, shot me down while I was landing.
The other in a CZ, badly damaged my ship, chased me a bit, but let me go.
Overall it wasn't a bad experience at all, the risk of confronting a monster is part of the game.We aren't the saviour of the universe (or of the princess) in Elite, and some times we have to jump away. It's not a game about easy gratification, at least not like most other blander games are (like Skyrim for instance, we you get what I mean).

 

[El General]

What about being able to buy pre-engineered ships at incredibly high price?
That could be cool, not every sellers have to sell the same shi*ty loadout.
Technologically advanced systems could have premium ship configs for rich & impatient players ^^

Like que personal equipment (you can buy suits or weapons preingeneered with mods at very specific rotating shops just for money at very high prices, compared to vanilla). This is true for very specific modules like the Class 5 FSD (And not for money). But yeah. It would be cool

 

[V'larr]

That comment right there says it all. It's "YOUR" problem because that is the only way you currently or will ever see it. With that mindset, there is nothing on this earth that FDev can ever do that will satisfy you.

This is the point where you simply find another game to play. This one is simply never going to be what you want it to be.

I disagree.

 

[V'larr]

That's it exactly. It's the "I want it now without putting in any effort" crowd that calls everything a grind.

People complaining in this thread, like @V'larr, about the grind on engineering when they have grade 5 engineering is sort of like a fat guy that weighs 400 pounds complaining to the waitress that there's not enough food at the all-you-can-eat buffet.

You guys want a REAL grind? Go play World of Tanks. There is only one thing to do: play a tank. Get XP points and credits. Get the next tank in line. Rinse, repeat. That's it. There is nothing else. Oh, and by the way, when you get to a certain point, you'll get stuck there literally forever, because you simply can't make enough money and XP at the same time to advance any further.

Unless you pay.

What's more, you'll be hurled into games against others that have been playing the game for a decade that can kill you without you ever knowing they're there.

So yeah, go play World of Tanks for a few months to a year. You'll come crawling back here and apologize to everyone for ever daring say that this game was "a grind".

Frankly, I don't think anybody in this thread would last 5 days at that game.

I am already a World of Tanks "survivor". That experience is largely why I take umbrance with force-injected RNG for RNG's sake, and grind for the sake of having a grind.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

So, in other words, you're just complaining for the sake of complaining and a genuine lack of anything better to do. Gotcha.

 

[Dox Paradox]

I am already a World of Tanks "survivor". That experience is largely why I take umbrance with force-injected RNG for RNG's sake, and grind for the sake of having a grind.

What are the parts of Elite you like best? I see you're around since 2016, not many games can retain players for such a long period of time

 

[V'larr]

So, in other words, you're just complaining for the sake of complaining and a genuine lack of anything better to do. Gotcha.

That would appear to put you in the same boat, at this point, no?

 

[V'larr]

What are the parts of Elite you like best? I see you're around since 2016, not many games can retain players for such a long period of time

Certainly; this game has a particular charm that does not exist elsewhere, largely due to the 1:1 representation of our Milky Way galaxy and the freedom to traverse it.

Frankly, I've enjoyed everything except Engineering and combat. Reaching exploration and trade Elite was a fun experience for me. I enjoy embarking on exploration voyages and participating in community goals in particular.

Before Engineering happened, combat Elite rank was not yet one of my objectives, but it was decently enjoyable to do combat from time to time. Hitpoint inflation had not yet happened. Even post-Engineering, taking combat in bits and pieces while trading has been a decent past-time. But preparing my ships with Engineering to take on the endless stream of interdicting Anacondas was not.

I've been stuck at Dangerous (I don't think I hit Deadly yet?) for years now because currently combat feels like a fish-in-a-barrel slog where individual fights and kills are worth very little, and yet ships can take agonizingly long amounts of time to destroy owing to hitpoint inflation which was made 10 times worse by Engineering - which is everpresent in places you would be expected to do combat like "combat zones". Places where opponents do not have hitpoint inflation do exist, but the spawns are erratic and often low-value in terms of XP.
Add on top of that the fact I was excited for the capability to launch an Eagle or Sidewinder from a ship like the Corvette and having ship crew aboard while pursuing combat Elite rank, only to instead get 3D-printed-glass-cannon-drones and then have the experience of having a ship crew aboard for combat completely sabotaged by the XP-splitting mechanic such that having a crew actually hurts my progress, and my enjoyment of combat soured and has remained soured for some years now.

So with all that in mind, having to jump through RNG-injection relog-grind tedium repeatedly each time I want to try out a new ship to see if it can alleviate my combat enjoyment woes is, in a word, unpalatable. I've still endured it for my Corvette, Cutter, Python, and Anaconda, but having done it it is not something I want to repeat, nor is it an experience I could recommend to any players wondering about this game. There is a vast room for improvement here, and because it has measurable impacts upon everything one does in this game with their ship (and now also suits and guns whilst on foot), I place high importance on emphasizing a need for change.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

That would appear to put you in the same boat, at this point, no?

No. It wouldn't.

You're in a thread complaining about "the grind for engineering" when you already have grade 5 engineering on your ships.

I bet you're the same guy that complains about the "rigged RNG" over at World of Tanks but keeps on playing the game anyway.

 

[V'larr]

No. It wouldn't.

You're in a thread complaining about "the grind for engineering" when you already have grade 5 engineering on your ships.

I bet you're the same guy that complains about the "rigged RNG" over at World of Tanks but keeps on playing the game anyway.

You are in a thread complaining about people raising complaints about grind and RNG. If I am 'just complaining because I have nothing better to do', you are no better than I.

Incidentally, I did raise complaints at WoT about the RNG and paytowin elements for some time. When it became evident Wargaming has negative interest in player satisfaction or retention, I gave up and I did ultimately quit that game. It's set up to be a toxic influence on several levels and not an experience I recommend to anyone.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

You are in a thread complaining about people raising complaints about grind and RNG.

I'm simply pointing out two things:

1. Your hypocrisy
2. There isn't a grind unless you yourself make it one.

Incidentally, I did raise complaints at WoT about the RNG and paytowin elements for some time.

Just as I thought.

That tells me all I need to know about you. Have a good day.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

You are in a thread complaining about people raising complaints about grind and RNG. If I am 'just complaining because I have nothing better to do', you are no better than I.

Incidentally, I did raise complaints at WoT about the RNG and paytowin elements for some time. When it became evident Wargaming has negative interest in player satisfaction or retention, I gave up and I did ultimately quit that game. It's set up to be a toxic influence on several levels and not an experience I recommend to anyone.

I played War Thunder. these games are usually enjoyableup to a point: when the rest is gated behind an insane grind wall. I guess it's to part the fish from the whales? And the fish are fine for populating the first few levels.
Thing is: You get stuck with the ever same encounters over and over again - and that killed it quickly for me. ED is kinda the same spot for me.

 

[V'larr]

I'm simply pointing out two things:

1. Your hypocrisy
2. There isn't a grind unless you yourself make it one.

Just as I thought.

That tells me all I need to know about you. Have a good day.

Point 1 - pot meet kettle.

Point 2 - you are factually incorrect.

I'm really not sure what you expected. If I find RNG and grind unpalatable in this game, what makes you think I found it palatable in the past playing WoT? Whatever merits the game had, those were not them.

 

[V'larr]

I played War Thunder. these games are usually enjoyableup to a point: when the rest is gated behind an insane grind wall. I guess it's to part the fish from the whales? And the fish are fine for populating the first few levels.
Thing is: You get stuck with the ever same encounters over and over again - and that killed it quickly for me. ED is kinda the same spot for me.

Yep. And in WoT's case, every encounter is primarily determined by A) RNG or B) paytowin gimmicks, whereas in War Thunder, it's effectively determined by OHKO dice rolls or else tier difference.

In that sense, at least, Elite's boost-and-chew-through-hitpoints combat is a superior experience to those games.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Yep. And in WoT's case, every encounter is primarily determined by A) RNG or B) paytowin gimmicks, whereas in War Thunder, it's effectively determined by OHKO dice rolls or else tier difference.

In that sense, at least, Elite's boost-and-chew-through-hitpoints combat is a superior experience to those games.

i dont agree. Boost and chew is mayve fairer - but it's boring

 

[V'larr]

i dont agree. Boost and chew is mayve fairer - but it's boring

It is in dire need of improvement, certainly, but I'll take boring over RNG/completely-out-of-my-hands frustration any day.