Making B and C grades useful.

Before the great encashening brought by mining, B and C grades were occasionally used as cheaper alternatives to the more expensive but better A grade items. Unfortunately, as cash is now much less relevant than it once was, and Engineering incentivizes focusing entirely into gear you keep forever, these grades have lost their purpose and are barely ever used.

What if instead of simply being cheaper alternatives, they were changed to compliment alternative niches? This is already the case with D-Grade, which sacrifice power for weight, only really B and C grade need alteration.

B-Grade is pretty easy. Make them be actively better(slightly; say, 3-5%) than A-Grade, but also weigh significantly more, basically the opposite of D grade. If you can handle the weight, B-Grade would be the option of choice, but they'll be so heavy, investing fully into B-Grade would often result in significantly reduced maneuverability. The player would either need to carefully engineer to ensure their weight is acceptable, or select specific gear to use that will maximize their benefit.

C-Grade is a little bit trickier. I think that Bi-Weaves give a good guide for how this could function; weaker in general, but much stronger in one specific facet. For shields, regeneration. For engines, it might have a much higher speed multiplier, but much lower optimum mass, so they can give you extremely good max speed but at the cost of maneuverability. FSD might be worse in general but enhance the power of boosts, both from injections and neutron stars. Power Distributor could be the inverse of the biweave; lower default regeneration, but MUCH higher default capacity.

And so on, and so forth.

This way, players have a choice between the different choices available, rather than always just going for A-Grade and never using the other ones. I think it could make the game more deep and interesting overall.
 
B is useful - it's high integrity, meaning it can take a heck of a beating compared to A. That's why my combat Cobra has B thrusters, for example.

Even E is useful for things like stealth builds where low power is key.

Unfortunately, the number of such builds is pretty dang slim. I've never needed to E-Grade anything to get my heat low, for example; perhaps before engineering, but certainly not now.

I'd like to make them strongly and intentionally suited for their particular purposes, rather than just sorta accidentally falling into them by happenstance. Having slightly superior integrity is a nice start, for example, but it's only about 9% better in that one area, while being roughly that much worse in every other area. That's barely enough to compensate for just the added weight, even if the other stats were all identical to A-Grade.
 
The solution to this issue isn't to rebalance the modules themselves, but to fix the economy. Make credits important again and make A-rating things a show of wealth that isn't generally worth it rather than the norm. In a galaxy where credits matter, including the ongoing costs of repairs and rebuys, then the other ratings begin to have their reasons for existing again.
 
The solution to this issue isn't to rebalance the modules themselves, but to fix the economy. Make credits important again and make A-rating things a show of wealth that isn't generally worth it rather than the norm. In a galaxy where credits matter, including the ongoing costs of repairs and rebuys, then the other ratings begin to have their reasons for existing again.

Unfortunately, that's pretty much impossible. The only way to prevent infinite credit inflation is to have an actual functional economy, with credits not accumulating indefinitely, and that takes a phenomenal amount of effort, effort that's almost certainly wasted for a game like Elite where it's not the primary focus.

Hence the suggestion. Give them an actual realistic purpose in the game that exists, not one that probably never will.
 
Even by making adjustments to create tanky/heavy B rated modules their benefits would only come into real effect once you lost shields. Which leads us full circle back to some of your previous hull tanking discussions DemiserofD. 😉

Something I would like to see (and this is probably going to sound a bit silly)....

‘S’ rated modules for explorers...

Medium integrity, good power, very low weight, amazing speed. Expensive.

I have a real mental problem with outfitting a ship that’s going to be taking me out into the furthest reaches of the galaxy with crappy D rated cheap junk!!

There’s something just really unsatisfying about it.

If there’s a ship I want to sink my fortune in it’s an explorer! I’m going to be sat in it for a very long period...

I kind of wish FD would just scrap the whole E-A system and introduce a more creative upgrade path for ships.
 
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Even by making adjustments to create tanky/heavy B rated modules their benefits would only come into real effect once you lost shields.

Well the idea is that the weight/tankiness would be the penalty, not the reward. You'd have a module that's slightly better than A-Grade, but much heavier. Say, 5% better stats all around. Call it Military Grade, if you like. You'd take it if you could handle the weight in exchange for slightly better stats, and you might only take one B-Grade module per layout, depending on what you need in particular.

I personally don't see a problem with D-grade. If you changed the name to EX-Grade(as in Explorer), then it would make perfect sense; some stats traded for significantly less weight.

That's exactly the sort of difference I want on ALL the grades; A grade becomes the everyman, the others become for specific purposes. They still wouldn't be used for everything, but they would be used for some things.
 
Having slightly superior integrity is a nice start, for example, but it's only about 9% better in that one area, while being roughly that much worse in every other area. That's barely enough to compensate for just the added weight, even if the other stats were all identical to A-Grade.
You seem to be missing the biggest advantage of all - price. I only go A rated if I NEED A rated, because who wants a 25 million credit rebuy? I don't. Yes, I'm rich, but now I've got this fleet carrier to pay for, so I'd rather keep my money. I've often gone with a B rated fuel scoop over A, for example, because B was good enough (FSD has to cool down, after all) and MUCH cheaper. C is cheaper still, etc.

In other words, I have absolutely no problem with how modules are now, except that the ABCDE labeling is non-intuitive for beginning players.
 
You seem to be missing the biggest advantage of all - price. I only go A rated if I NEED A rated, because who wants a 25 million credit rebuy? I don't. Yes, I'm rich, but now I've got this fleet carrier to pay for, so I'd rather keep my money. I've often gone with a B rated fuel scoop over A, for example, because B was good enough (FSD has to cool down, after all) and MUCH cheaper. C is cheaper still, etc.

In other words, I have absolutely no problem with how modules are now, except that the ABCDE labeling is non-intuitive for beginning players.

Price is pretty much irrelevant at this point, that's why the whole suggestion exists. I've got 9 billion credits in reserve, and it didn't even take me that much effort.
 
B is useful - it's high integrity, meaning it can take a heck of a beating compared to A. That's why my combat Cobra has B thrusters, for example.

Even E is useful for things like stealth builds where low power is key.

The problem with those examples is that you are now talking about niche builds.

Anyone can check their fleet of ships and do a simple summary on how many A, B, C, D and E modules they have summarized on these modules.
  • Shields
  • Powerplant
  • Thrusters
  • FSD
  • LifeSupport
  • Sensors
  • Power Distributor
 
Better integrity on B grade isn't really even relevant; you can get better stats AND integrity by using A-Grade engineered with Double Braced, if you really want integrity.

Not to mention it isn't even always true; B Life Support, for example, is just heavier and worse, with no bonus to integrity.
 
B is useful - it's high integrity, meaning it can take a heck of a beating compared to A. That's why my combat Cobra has B thrusters, for example.

Even E is useful for things like stealth builds where low power is key.


I am always intrigued by these sort of claims...
Stock Cobra Mk III, only changing the thrusters. everything else is stock E-modules, so we can have comparable numbers.

No engineering
4A thrusters - 88 integrity (speed 312/445)
4B thrusters - 96 integrity (speed 302/431)
8 integrity difference (9.1%)

Dirty Drives G5 - Drag Drives
4A thrusters - 75 integrity (speed 441/630)
4B thrusters - 82 integrity (speed 429/613)
7 integrity difference (9.3%)

Dirty Drives G5 - Double Braced
4A thrusters - 86 integrity (speed 424/606)
4B thrusters - 94 integrity (speed 413/590)
8 integrity difference (9.3%)


Reinforced G5 - Double Braced
4A thrusters - 213 integrity (speed 311/445)
4B thrusters - 232 integrity (speed 301/430)
19 integrity difference (8.9%)

Reinforced G5 - Drag Drives
4A thrusters - 185 integrity (speed 324/462)
4B thrusters - 202 integrity (speed 313/448)
19 integrity difference (9.2%)


So we seems to be having having around the same base change in integrity about the 9% in overall change from using a B over A, and for that you loose about 3% speed.
So if the only change is A or B thrusters, and the comparing the numbers, is 9% more integrity that much worth it overall at the cost of 3% of speed?

I do get the pretty significant difference between 4A, Dirty Drives G5, Drag Drives @75 integrity vs 4B, Reinforced, Double Braced @232 integrity. That is a 209% increase, at the cost of 31.7% speed.



What I find interesting is the comparison of
4A Thrusters with Reinforced G5 - Double Braced vs 4B Thrusters with Reinforced G5 - Drag Drives
213 integrity (speed 311/445)
vs 202 integrity (speed 313/448)

Here, the 4A have 5.4% better integrity, and -0.6% speed.
So which one is really better if speed and integrity is important? ie finding the sweetspot of both...
 
I am always intrigued by these sort of claims...
Stock Cobra Mk III, only changing the thrusters. everything else is stock E-modules, so we can have comparable numbers.

No engineering
4A thrusters - 88 integrity (speed 312/445)
4B thrusters - 96 integrity (speed 302/431)
8 integrity difference (9.1%)

Dirty Drives G5 - Drag Drives
4A thrusters - 75 integrity (speed 441/630)
4B thrusters - 82 integrity (speed 429/613)
7 integrity difference (9.3%)

Dirty Drives G5 - Double Braced
4A thrusters - 86 integrity (speed 424/606)
4B thrusters - 94 integrity (speed 413/590)
8 integrity difference (9.3%)


Reinforced G5 - Double Braced
4A thrusters - 213 integrity (speed 311/445)
4B thrusters - 232 integrity (speed 301/430)
19 integrity difference (8.9%)

Reinforced G5 - Drag Drives
4A thrusters - 185 integrity (speed 324/462)
4B thrusters - 202 integrity (speed 313/448)
19 integrity difference (9.2%)


So we seems to be having having around the same base change in integrity about the 9% in overall change from using a B over A, and for that you loose about 3% speed.
So if the only change is A or B thrusters, and the comparing the numbers, is 9% more integrity that much worth it overall at the cost of 3% of speed?

I do get the pretty significant difference between 4A, Dirty Drives G5, Drag Drives @75 integrity vs 4B, Reinforced, Double Braced @232 integrity. That is a 209% increase, at the cost of 31.7% speed.



What I find interesting is the comparison of
4A Thrusters with Reinforced G5 - Double Braced vs 4B Thrusters with Reinforced G5 - Drag Drives
213 integrity (speed 311/445)
vs 202 integrity (speed 313/448)

Here, the 4A have 5.4% better integrity, and -0.6% speed.
So which one is really better if speed and integrity is important? ie finding the sweetspot of both...
Another person assuming everyone playing this game has the resources to buy A-rated modules and G5 engineer them all. The price leap from B to A is often HUGE, data you might want to add to your charts.
 
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