Making Punishment Fun

I had a thought yesterday. I was goofing around in Skyrim, attacking guards in a city.

I realized that Skyrim has a C&P situation similar to ED.

* You get bounties for crimes, and they are jurisdictional (only the 'faction' you commited the crime against, cares).
* You can become 'kill on sight' for those crimes, and the authorities will go after you
* You can leave the area and be 'clean' again, elsewhere.
* If you get caught and defeated, you go to jail for a timeout.

Now I'm not saying that C&P in Skyrim is great. It's simple and rudimentary.

But it does something ED doesn't. It *tries* to make the punishment part fun by presenting you with decisions all along the way.

* For a small bounty, the guards just stop you. You can pay it off right there, or resist and escalate
* For a larger bounty, they attack on sight. You can submit and pay it off, or fight and win/escape.
* Once you are caught, you still have decisions. You can stay and do the jail time, which keeps you from playing for a bit, and also reduces your skill progression. Or you can attempt to sneak out of jail, and steal all your stuff back.

I think that when the ED designers were putting C&P together, they forgot that ALL parts of it should be fun to engage. Even the punishment part should be FUN. The time you have to spend to atone for your crimes should be engaging and interesting.

Instead, we have a very one-dimensional system. Even a small crime can result in a bunch of time-sinks, none of which are fun, and some of which are awkward and/or confusing. They just force you to do something you don't want to do, with no options.

You're not really presented with any interesting decisions, or fun things to do, once the crime is committed.

This is a game. Even the punishment should be fun and engaging. It should not actually punish players to the point that they are frustrated and annoyed.

Just a few morning thoughts, and just my opinion.
 
My main gripe with "new and improved" system is that it's exactly the same as the old one, but more stupid and time-consuming.

Let's face it - in the end, no matter what you do, money talks and you're clean as a whistle. Only now, the actual faction who wants you dead won't even talk to you, accept your money, but idiots will sell you fuel so you can leave or continue your murderous rampage, as you wish.

No, now you have to go look for an intermediary to pay them, so they can charge you more, transfer the payment to the original bounty issuer, and even with 25% profit margin, they still can't afford to have presence on every station.

There's too much grind in this game, and this rubbish system takes even more precious time away, for exactly the same result as before - money for clean record.

It's like it's been designed by Montgomery Burns, I swear.
 
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The thread title could be interpreted in different ways. Maybe that's why I clicked it.. hmm..


whips and chains and such.. and leather.
 
Although the current system has problems (I shouldn't get a bounty from the faction that gave me the mission when I complete it) a lot of complaints about C&P seem to come from players who either refuse to adapt or haven't figured out how to adapt yet.

You have to plan your capers now or "live" in multiple jurisdictions. It's not that hard or time consuming.
 
Rep for the title and reminding me I need to start Skyrim again. Might play as a Stealth Archer this time.

I concur there is an absence of entertainment in some aspects of the C&P. It hasn't really changed my gameplay but it has meant I have to reduce the fun by the required ten minutes it takes to fly to an Anarchy and get cleaned by those friendly folks at IF.

So as a fun reduction device the C&P is definitely a success.
 
Although the current system has problems (I shouldn't get a bounty from the faction that gave me the mission when I complete it) a lot of complaints about C&P seem to come from players who either refuse to adapt or haven't figured out how to adapt yet.

You have to plan your capers now or "live" in multiple jurisdictions. It's not that hard or time consuming.
Everybody knows how to fly to a system with an IF. There is no planning required. People are just saying it's pointless and only adds downtime.
 
I had a thought yesterday. I was goofing around in Skyrim, attacking guards in a city.

I realized that Skyrim has a C&P situation similar to ED.

* You get bounties for crimes, and they are jurisdictional (only the 'faction' you commited the crime against, cares).
* You can become 'kill on sight' for those crimes, and the authorities will go after you
* You can leave the area and be 'clean' again, elsewhere.
* If you get caught and defeated, you go to jail for a timeout.
The only problem is that during your time in jail, time passes by where you lose out on some skill points. ED is done in real time because it's an MMO and can't perform a scene of ".....a few days later, THIS happened."

Then again, it would be nice if the guards flying around space stations would actually be given voices like the guards in Whiterun (who all sound like Arnold Schwarzenegger).

"Disrespect the law and you disrespect me."
"Break the law here and I'll toss you in jail myself."
"I used to be a space explorer like you..."

The thread title could be interpreted in different ways. Maybe that's why I clicked it.. hmm..

whips and chains and such.. and leather.
You dirty mind. I like the way you think. }:)

Perhaps being sent to some odd, small refinery inside an asteroid run by the cruel Space Goddess of Punishment.

You have been very naughty. You must mine low-pressure diamonds for 30 days. In this skimpy little outfit. If you don't meet your quota, you may have to be kept for another 30 days. Oh, don't worry, my pet. It'll be good exercise for you after all the time you've been bolted to that chair in your ship. Now, you'll be bolted to my mining machines. Oh, it's not like some exo-skeleton. It just lifts you up and you dig with that old shovel in your hands. <followed by evil laughter>

How'd I do?
 
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You dirty mind. I like the way you think. }:)

Perhaps being sent to some odd, small refinery inside an asteroid run by the cruel Space Goddess of Punishment.

You have been very naughty. You must mine low-pressure diamonds for 30 days. In this skimpy little outfit. If you don't meet your quota, you may have to be kept for another 30 days. Oh, don't worry, my pet. It'll be good exercise for you after all the time you've been bolted to that chair in your ship. Now, you'll be bolted to my mining machines. Oh, it's not like some exo-skeleton. It just lifts you up and you dig with that old shovel in your hands. <followed by evil laughter>

How'd I do?
Not bad. I was thinking more along the lines of that powerplay girl dragging me around with a leash in her chambers.
 
Even the punishment part should be FUN.
No, fun is not allowed, that would result in gameplay and that is more despised than earning credits. Also, it would require more thought than the A to B mechanics we have now. "We want you to scan a public terminal and we will pay you good money. To make it more interesting and a total rest of your skills you will chase a moving target when your ship is in glide mode..." "What, still not interesting enough?" "Ok, we'll give you a bounty for doing that." [rolleyes]
 
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I think that when the ED designers were putting C&P together, they forgot that ALL parts of it should be fun to engage. Even the punishment part should be FUN.


The big difference is that Skyrim is a single player game. ED punishment has to actually punish people for ganking other people. It's purpose is punishment in that case; not fun.
 
The big difference is that Skyrim is a single player game. ED punishment has to actually punish people for ganking other people. It's purpose is punishment in that case; not fun.[/COLOR]
So why can't it do both, punishment for those who need it and gameplay for everyone else. I don't think they are far off on the second and with some work, it will likely improve.
 
The big difference is that Skyrim is a single player game. ED punishment has to actually punish people for ganking other people. It's purpose is punishment in that case; not fun.
Bingo! The current situation shows that it's not a good idea to mix C&P for in-character activities with anti-griefing measures. Griefing is an out-of-character activity and if the C&P system helps a bit to curb griefing that is a fortunate coincidence but nothing more. Griefing should be addressed separately. I thought the Karma system was going to address griefing and other unwanted behaviour (clogging). What is the status of the Karma system? On the livestream on C&P Sandro said something about a lightweight Karma system but I never heard from it again.
 
I'm not sure you can make punishment fun. I realize that some enjoy punishment (giggity), but it seems like punishments should be uncomfortable and avoided.
 
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