Making the mining more difficult (but without simply decreasing profit)

[Squall Blyat]

Hi,

I was thinking about the patch on mining nerf (which is still quite ok imo) recently. I would like to have your opinion about the fact that mining should not be less "profitable" but instead, more difficult. It is actually quite easy to be alone to mine, without pirate or whatever. I think some of us even mine without shield, chaff and/or weapons.

What if pirate do not only spawn at the beginning of the mining session but rather at any moment. Imagine being mining with "only" 50t of painite (on 400t cargo) when suddenly a nasty pirates jump of near you and start going towards your ships.

Therefore several options:
- you could have defensive capacities (weapons, shield, hull reinforcement) which then reduces your mining capacities (less tools, limpets controler, cargo, ...)

- You could just run away and find another spot (waste of time and then, profit)

- You could have a wingman, dedicated to defense, which will take care of bandits while you're harvesting painite/LTD/Void Opal. Then, profit may be split up (with a ratio decided by the wingmen at the begining).

All of this would "naturally" decrease mining (too OP) profit rather than artificially by simply decreasing the amount of credits.

 

[Brrokk]

TBH I don't agree with the popular idea that mining is a low skill activity. I'm not an expert miner, and because of that I don't get the impressive credits-per-hour figures that others do. There's a world of difference between someone who bumbles about with cargo scoop always open and firing one prospector at a time, and the truly focused people who've tuned their ship build, have the prices of all commodities in their heads and know what every limpet is doing all the time.

 

[Squall Blyat]

TBH I don't agree with the popular idea that mining is a low skill activity. I'm not an expert miner, and because of that I don't get the impressive credits-per-hour figures that others do. There's a world of difference between someone who bumbles about with cargo scoop always open and firing one prospector at a time, and the truly focused people who've tuned their ship build, have the prices of all commodities in their heads and know what every limpet is doing all the time.

Well the mechanic itself is quite nice (especially core mining). But the fact that bandit scan you at the begining (when you have nothing but are obviously starting to mine) and never after is not really realistic to me. It also removes any notions of "surrounding danger" (as you feel safe) and I really think that having a potential threath during mining session could improve the overall mining

 

[Brrokk]

Well the mechanic itself is quite nice (especially core mining). But the fact that bandit scan you at the begining (when you have nothing but are obviously starting to mine) and never after is not really realistic to me. It also removes any notions of "surrounding danger" (as you feel safe) and I really think that having a potential threath during mining session could improve the overall mining

Yes, the pirate at the beginning isn't realistic; given the size of a planetary ring, it's implausible that you'd ever meet anyone. But I think you're making the mistake of thinking that the only skill in Elite is combat; or at least not getting blown up. Extracting subsurface deposits or core is a skilled activity. Using abrasion blaster involves firing a fixed weapon at a moving target, without a leading target reticule. Limpet management is continual juggling. Like I said, I'm not an expert, but I've done enough mining to be able to recognise skill.

 

[Squall Blyat]

Yes, the pirate at the beginning isn't realistic; given the size of a planetary ring, it's implausible that you'd ever meet anyone. But I think you're making the mistake of thinking that the only skill in Elite is combat; or at least not getting blown up. Extracting subsurface deposits or core is a skilled activity. Using abrasion blaster involves firing a fixed weapon at a moving target, without a leading target reticule. Limpet management is continual juggling. Like I said, I'm not an expert, but I've done enough mining to be able to recognise skill.

I've never said there was no skill in mining...Just saying that you can just wait to see pirates leave and then mine very quietly. The rest is just the yield (number of mineral/time), which depend on your pure mining skill. But you will never be bother by pirate again.

I'm not a good miner as I'm only doing surface mining. Be even so, I manage to get easily 60M/hour (more like 80-100M/h usually to be honest). I will never ever get that in High Extraction Zone or CZ, not even half of this. And it's way more stressfull than mining.

The skills are different, but the "treath" are also not the same. Mining is more or less not risky. Combat is. Therefore the ratio "risk/benefit" is way advantagous for mining while very poor for combat. That's what I'm pointing out ^^

 

[theBreadSultan]

Hi,

I was thinking about the patch on mining nerf (which is still quite ok imo) recently. I would like to have your opinion about the fact that mining should not be less "profitable" but instead, more difficult. It is actually quite easy to be alone to mine, without pirate or whatever. I think some of us even mine without shield, chaff and/or weapons.

What if pirate do not only spawn at the beginning of the mining session but rather at any moment. Imagine being mining with "only" 50t of painite (on 400t cargo) when suddenly a nasty pirates jump of near you and start going towards your ships.

Therefore several options:
- you could have defensive capacities (weapons, shield, hull reinforcement) which then reduces your mining capacities (less tools, limpets controler, cargo, ...)

- You could just run away and find another spot (waste of time and then, profit)

- You could have a wingman, dedicated to defense, which will take care of bandits while you're harvesting painite/LTD/Void Opal. Then, profit may be split up (with a ratio decided by the wingmen at the begining).

All of this would "naturally" decrease mining (too OP) profit rather than artificially by simply decreasing the amount of credits.

Laughs in T10
Off the top of my head,
12 or 13 collector limpets
2 prospector limpets
2 x size 2 mining lasers that can fire for ever
1 x ship launched fighter
2 x missile launcher
1 x size 3 cannon turret (engineered)
1 x size 3 burst cannon
2 x size 3 multicannon turrets (engineered)
1 x flax cannon for the lols

I don't even run a shield and pirates are zero threat.


No if you want to make mining more fun, more skill based, and more difficult, the solution is simple....

Make the rocks move, and crash, and smash

 

[Squall Blyat]

Laughs in T10
Off the top of my head,
12 or 13 collector limpets
2 prospector limpets
2 x size 2 mining lasers that can fire for ever
1 x ship launched fighter
2 x missile launcher
1 x size 3 cannon turret (engineered)
1 x size 3 burst cannon
2 x size 3 multicannon turrets (engineered)
1 x flax cannon for the lols

I don't even run a shield and pirates are zero threat.


No if you want to make mining more fun, more skill based, and more difficult, the solution is simple....

Make the rocks move, and crash, and smash

That's a nice T-10 indeed

But honestly, how many times are you using your defensive capacities while mining (not before or after)? In my opinion, such a nice ships with so many weapon that are not used is a bit sad . I like the fact you build a "mining ship able to defend itself"...but the reallity is there: it's more or less pointless now (it's only usefull if you need to delog while mining or fail to escape FSD interdiction, which are quite rare).

 

[theBreadSultan]

That's a nice T-10 indeed

But honestly, how many times are you using your defensive capacities while mining (not before or after)? In my opinion, such a nice ships with so many weapon that are not used is a bit sad . I like the fact you build a "mining ship able to defend itself"...but the reallity is there: it's more or less pointless now (it's only usefull if you need to delog while mining or fail to escape FSD interdiction, which are quite rare).

Yea you're not wrong.
I've sent her out into the black now - fully armed to the teeth of course, having replaced the mining lasers with an Ax multicannon and abrasion blaster (though I'm not sure how useful that will be without a refinery)

 

[metatheurgist]

If the game made sense the NPCs would've moved the RES sites to Hotspots. That's where the actual Resource Extraction is happening now, then there'd be no more mining without pirates (OK, they'd have to expand the RES a bit).