Map Module

[-VR- Max Factor]

It would be useful for the very reasons I pointed out, no matter how much that may rub you, and I would want it in the game, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree!

I know why you want it. It's so you can completely bypass using the FSS. As I said, FDev are not going to do it. Think out of the box. Think of ways the FSS can be improved, think of modules that can work with the FSS instead of being able to ignore it. Those are the posts that FDev are more likely to read.

Your choice at the end of the day.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Please stop calling it and ADS, it's not,

As for looking at other stuff...go for it, I'll look!

I will call it the ADS light as that is what it is, but under a different name.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

Max, you're being silly again, and ignoring what's been written.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Max, you're being silly again, and ignoring what's been written.

No i'm not. I know exactly what has been written. I can't see FDev even looking at this at all and if they do it will be one look and see that it is very similar to the old style ADS and ignore it.

While it wouldn't break the game for me, personally ( I wouldn't like it either), I can't see FDev adding it in. Sorry, just my personal view on it.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

By targeting it nulifies what the FSS is all about, which is finding these planets for yourself. By adding in an ADS style module it destroys what the FSS is about.
All you are doing is adding the old style ADS functionality and calling it a different name. It is not coming back.

It's debatable that finding planets is what the FSS is about - I believe its primary function is to reveal detailed information about bodies, something this 'new' module doesn't do.
'Finding' them by panning in one direction or the other is just the timesink hoop you need to jump through in order to do it.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It's debatable that finding planets is what the FSS is about - I believe its primary function is to reveal detailed information about bodies, something this 'new' module doesn't do.
'Finding' them by panning in one direction or the other is just the timesink hoop you need to jump through in order to do it.

I disagree. I prefer to find stuff myself then have them given to me on a plate. But I do except that the FSS gives out too much information. Also if it wasn't designed for you to find it yourself, it would be press a button and everything is there and filled out. But it isn't. You have to actively search for it, which is one of it's major functions.

As to timesinks, all gameplay is a timesink, you either like it or you don't. Without time sinks there would be no game to play.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

I disagree. I prefer to find stuff myself then have them given to me on a plate. But I do except that the FSS gives out too much information.

As to timesinks, all gameplay is a timesink, you either like it or you don't. Without time sinks there would be no game to play.

No-one wants to stop you finding them yourself - if that's what you enjoy, do it.
Some timesinks are far more enjoyable than others - there is no equivalence between essentially panning at random in a blue screen and targetted SC spaceflight.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

No-one wants to stop you finding them yourself - if that's what you enjoy, do it.
Some timesinks are far more enjoyable than others - there is no equivalence between essentially panning at random in a blue screen and targetted SC spaceflight.

I don't pan at random and I still have targetted SC flight. What is enjoyable is subjective. People want jump gates all over the bubble. People want to have micro jumps from star to stations and planetoids. I mean they could add all of that in and keep the usual method of jump and SC but do you think that creates a reasonably credible game world?

To me it would turn the game into a complete joke. Also it's got nothing to do with what I want, because as it goes, I didn't get what I wanted at all.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

I don't pan at random and I still have targetted SC flight. What is enjoyable is subjective. People want jump gates all over the bubble. People want to have micro jumps from star to stations and planetoids. I mean they could add all of that in and keep the usual method of jump and SC but do you think that creates a reasonably credible game world?

To me it would turn the game into a complete joke. Also it's got nothing to do with what I want, because as it goes, I didn't get what I wanted at all.

What has any of that got to do with anything?
Looks like just another tangential rabbit hole to derail the thread - please stop doing that.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

What has any of that got to do with anything?
Looks like just another tangential rabbit hole to derail the thread - please stop doing that.

It has everything to do with it.

 

[Sunyavadin]

This sounds just perfect for filling the useless additional small slots we keep getting on our ships, while actually making exploration engaging for me again. No more headaches from the FSS, or the tedium of coming out of my immersion to point at things for a while, but rather, being able to see if anything which might be interesting is there, and then experiencing exploration again, by flying to it to see just how interesting it is.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

A dumbed down ADS... I get the general idea here... selectable bodies on the system map and Navigation panel, because... I don’t know exactly... y’all like selecting things that way, or it’s far easier to write Exploration macros so the computer can do the exploring while you do the web browsing or whatever.

Or whatever gives that security-blanket sensation of the old style of exploration - the kind I couldn’t stand to do because of how boring it was.

But I do think there could be SOME merit in this concept. I don’t have an issue with more modules for greater levels of ship specialization and role-focus. Make “Exploration Ship” really mean something, make it outfitted differently enough that it’s not just a warship with a sensor.

I mean, let’s look at some actual real Expeditionary ship:

25m Single Screw Trawler Type Vessel - Ideal for Expedition, Site Survey, Environmental, Chase or Dive Boat. - SeaBoats

Single screw, steel, Trawler Design. 1988 24.86m (81ft 6in) 6.74m (22ft) 3.2m Indonesia Geoff Fraser USD 350,000 Principal Particulars Flag: Port Of...

www.seaboats.net

That’s an Explorer, and she’s outfitted with the tools for the job.

Azimut 105 - SeaBoats

Azimut 105 1983 30.8m (105 ft) 7m (23 1.8m (5.75ft) New Zealand Clive Bennett $NZ 1,900,000 Overview : This luxury motoryacht was originally designed...

www.seaboats.net

This is a pleasure craft, opulent and luxurious in every way. Can she go where an Expeditionary ship can? Sure, but you’re not likely to find the sort of equipment aboard, nor the kinds of spaces for work to be done.

Finally:

NEW BUILD - XSV 17 High Speed Interceptor / Patrol Vessel - SeaBoats

NEW BUILD - XSV 17 High Speed Interceptor / Patrol Vessel Built to Order 17.9m (58ft 8in) 4.2m (13ft 9in) 0.85m (2ft ex factory, Ireland Geoff Fraser POA...

www.seaboats.net

A high-speed interceptor/patrol ship. Like the others, capable of traveling nearly anywhere, but don’t expect it to resemble comfortable. And with limited space for equipment, she’d not be a great choice for scientific research.


This is something lacking in Elite. You can outfit any ship for any task. Some will work better than others, but there are not enough specialized components to make any of them really exceptional.

I’d love to see more, much more, from scientific equipment to highly specialized combat components, that demand we spend some time thinking about what we’re building instead of min/maxing our armor and DPS, or throwing in another type of Limpet controller.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

A dumbed down ADS...

I mean, let’s look at some actual real Expeditionary ship:

Fine, you do that, start a thread and go for it!

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

A dumbed down ADS... I get the general idea here... selectable bodies on the system map and Navigation panel, because... I don’t know exactly... y’all like selecting things that way, or it’s far easier to write Exploration macros so the computer can do the exploring while you do the web browsing or whatever.

Or whatever gives that security-blanket sensation of the old style of exploration - the kind I couldn’t stand to do because of how boring it was.

But I do think there could be SOME merit in this concept. I don’t have an issue with more modules for greater levels of ship specialization and role-focus. Make “Exploration Ship” really mean something, make it outfitted differently enough that it’s not just a warship with a sensor.

I mean, let’s look at some actual real Expeditionary ship:

25m Single Screw Trawler Type Vessel - Ideal for Expedition, Site Survey, Environmental, Chase or Dive Boat. - SeaBoats

Single screw, steel, Trawler Design. 1988 24.86m (81ft 6in) 6.74m (22ft) 3.2m Indonesia Geoff Fraser USD 350,000 Principal Particulars Flag: Port Of...

www.seaboats.net

That’s an Explorer, and she’s outfitted with the tools for the job.

Azimut 105 - SeaBoats

Azimut 105 1983 30.8m (105 ft) 7m (23 1.8m (5.75ft) New Zealand Clive Bennett $NZ 1,900,000 Overview : This luxury motoryacht was originally designed...

www.seaboats.net

This is a pleasure craft, opulent and luxurious in every way. Can she go where an Expeditionary ship can? Sure, but you’re not likely to find the sort of equipment aboard, nor the kinds of spaces for work to be done.

Finally:

NEW BUILD - XSV 17 High Speed Interceptor / Patrol Vessel - SeaBoats

NEW BUILD - XSV 17 High Speed Interceptor / Patrol Vessel Built to Order 17.9m (58ft 8in) 4.2m (13ft 9in) 0.85m (2ft ex factory, Ireland Geoff Fraser POA...

www.seaboats.net

A high-speed interceptor/patrol ship. Like the others, capable of traveling nearly anywhere, but don’t expect it to resemble comfortable. And with limited space for equipment, she’d not be a great choice for scientific research.


This is something lacking in Elite. You can outfit any ship for any task. Some will work better than others, but there are not enough specialized components to make any of them really exceptional.

I’d love to see more, much more, from scientific equipment to highly specialized combat components, that demand we spend some time thinking about what we’re building instead of min/maxing our armor and DPS, or throwing in another type of Limpet controller.

This is where I feel FDev have gone in completely the wrong direction - with everything except mining. The biggest disappointment of exploration 3.3 was the removal of optional tools. Instead we got a free 'does everything' scanner and one tool for mapping planets which on 95% of bodies does exactly nothing, and one the remaining 5% gives us exact directions.

Exploration should have been about fitting the right tools for the task you wanted to do - whether that be xeno-research, volcanism, or astro-biology.

 

[Faded Glory]

I'd be more than happy to have the advanced module minus the ability to target anything there (or the nav panel). Finding stuff with the FSS isn't difficult, and if I can see that there's an interesting colored gas giant there I'm happy to go back to the FSS and scan the gas giants. Easy peasy.

Of course, that doesn't help those who simply want to target a body and fly to it and not use the FSS. And there I guess is the issue - no one size fits all solution is perfect.

Perhaps the only map that could be targetable would be the anonymous one, and the advanced one wouldn't populate the nav panel... Eh, getting awfully complicated.

Honestly FD, just give players some alternatives on how to explore...

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Fine, you do that, start a thread and go for it!

I did it, right here, in hopes of stimulating some thought and discussion about what it is we really want. Guess you’re not into that and just want a dead method revived for, I don’t know, whatever reason.

But do note the important bits here - namely that I do see merit to the idea, just think it should be more thought out, instead of a barely veiled effort to bring back something that isn’t coming back.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

It has everything to do with it.

There's absolutely no equivalence between micro-jumps or jump gates and the subject of this thread.
You bringing them into the discussion is a blatant deflection and completely irrelevant.

They only thing it has everything to do with your particular posting style of inserting bogus analogies at every opportunity.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

This is where I feel FDev have gone in completely the wrong direction - with everything except mining. The biggest disappointment of exploration 3.3 was the removal of optional tools. Instead we got a free 'does everything' scanner and one tool for mapping planets which on 95% of bodies does exactly nothing, and one the remaining 5% gives us exact directions.

Exploration should have been about fitting the right tools for the task you wanted to do - whether that be xeno-research, volcanism, or astro-biology.

I don’t have a problem with an Omni-scanner. I actually love that the DSS pinpoints things on the surfaces of planets. These sorts of things are what I’d expect in a high-tech, sci-fi environment.

But they still leave room for more. So I can pinpoint a cluster of alien anemones on a planet’s surface, I can fly down and zap them with my scrapbook scanner. But I want to know more. I want details down to their cellular structure. I want to know what nutrients make them grow. Do they produce seeds? Spores? Do they reproduce by budding? Do they divide and walk to a new place to grow? What effects do they have on the soil? Hundreds of questions, no way to answer them.

How about crystalline formations made by microorganisms? What do these M.O.’s look like? How do they behave? Are they still present or are they long dead? Are the crystals they produce useful in some way? Again, question after question and no tools to answer these.

I’ll concede mining for the most part - it was expanded on greatly, though the limited number of destroyable asteroids makes these changes a bit less than spectacular.

Exploration does need more expansion. Even Combat would benefit from some focused attention beyond mere weapons, armor and shields.

I also understand that Elite evolves only slightly faster than Evolution itself. It took how many years for Exploration to be updated? For mining to develop? And there are still plenty of “original systems” in place that need to come full circle as well. I’ve no doubt Frontier will get to all these things, at Frontier speed. We just need to wait.

This doesn’t mean we don’t float suggestion or stop discussing ways things could be improved, especially if those ideas can be refined into something that benefits everyone, or at least has as small of a negative impact as possible.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

I don’t have a problem with an Omni-scanner. I actually love that the DSS pinpoints things on the surfaces of planets. These sorts of things are what I’d expect in a high-tech, sci-fi environment.

But they still leave room for more. So I can pinpoint a cluster of alien anemones on a planet’s surface, I can fly down and zap them with my scrapbook scanner. But I want to know more. I want details down to their cellular structure. I want to know what nutrients make them grow. Do they produce seeds? Spores? Do they reproduce by budding? Do they divide and walk to a new place to grow? What effects do they have on the soil? Hundreds of questions, no way to answer them.

How about crystalline formations made by microorganisms? What do these M.O.’s look like? How do they behave? Are they still present or are they long dead? Are the crystals they produce useful in some way? Again, question after question and no tools to answer these.

I’ll concede mining for the most part - it was expanded on greatly, though the limited number of destroyable asteroids makes these changes a bit less than spectacular.

Exploration does need more expansion. Even Combat would benefit from some focused attention beyond mere weapons, armor and shields.

I also understand that Elite evolves only slightly faster than Evolution itself. It took how many years for Exploration to be updated? For mining to develop? And there are still plenty of “original systems” in place that need to come full circle as well. I’ve no doubt Frontier will get to all these things, at Frontier speed. We just need to wait.

This doesn’t mean we don’t float suggestion or stop discussing ways things could be improved, especially if those ideas can be refined into something that benefits everyone, or at least has as small of a negative impact as possible.

So you like the DSS identifying targets on surface environments with a great deal of potential interference, but not a module that can locate targets in the emptiness of space - curious to say the least.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

I too think it's a great idea to start my own thread on a different topic Skip...

You're welcome Indi!