Marine life animals possible?

Personally I don't like the idea of cetaceans in the game. BUT I loved the seals and penguins THOSE "marine" animals were great additions.

I would love to see manatees at some point in the future. And possibly aquarium exhibits, I think that would be a really nice feature.

Another thing I'd like to see would be the possibility of adding fish (like koi fish) to our in game ponds and rivers, but as decorations (meaning they wouldn't need keepers, and would just function as effects essentially).
 
I can't remember where exactly, but I remember reading that Frontier have confirmed that they're not going to make any animals as decorations for Planet Zoo--i.e., no butterfly effects or similar. So I don't think we're likely to get decorative fish for the game.
 
I can't remember where exactly, but I remember reading that Frontier have confirmed that they're not going to make any animals as decorations for Planet Zoo--i.e., no butterfly effects or similar. So I don't think we're likely to get decorative fish for the game.
Here's hoping they see how much we want this and change their minds. It doesn't even need to be a free update. I'd happily pay as part of a DLC.
 
You mean "here's hoping they can see how much a select few of us want this..."
Not everyone shares your view. So far in this thread, there's two.
There are more People that would like it but they probably don't answer because the Discussions about it always turn out the same Way

Edit: was confused and thought it was about Marine Animals
 
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I can't remember where exactly, but I remember reading that Frontier have confirmed that they're not going to make any animals as decorations for Planet Zoo--i.e., no butterfly effects or similar. So I don't think we're likely to get decorative fish for the game.
Indeed, they want all the animals in the game to be 'individuals' which pretty much rules out realistic takes on butterflies or fish. In terms of fish I don't see it as a huge loss (though looping koi animations would be nice for Japanese gardens) because not every zoo has an aquatic subsection, but I think closing the door on butterflies like that is really pointless. Butterflies aren't kept in exhibits, after all, they're usually kept in tropical houses where they can fly around freely. Having them as special effects would allow us to recreate such spaces without the need to have every butterfly as an individual.
You mean "here's hoping they can see how much a select few of us want this..."
Not everyone shares your view. So far in this thread, there's two.
There are more People that would like it but they probably don't answer because the Discussions about it always turn out the same Way
I think both of you are confused. Sockeyejo seems to be talking about having certain animals as decorative special effects, not marine animals (not exactly on-topic, I guess). There have been two or three threads on that subject in the past that were never controversial - it only ended when the CM's confirmed that it wasn't going to happen. Discussions on marine animals do indeed always end the same way.
 
I love the idea of marine animals, but they would have to come in a big expansion to be good. They could make the small fish exhibit animals, but they would probably want more advanced tanks for large marine animals.
 
Would Sir like some chamomile tea to smooth out those abrasive edges?
No thanks.
I drink mugs of "realism" - tastes pretty good.
Unless the person didn't mean "everyone" when they wrote "we" because I presume people mean what they write... but that's just me :p
 
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I'm here to say that orcas and dolphins are a must, and that they can transform it into an nice challenge for the player to create large ethical exhibits for them. Zoo Tycoon 2's Marine Mania was the best expansion and I really really want to see it in PZ. The community would totally love another marine mania, just the few people who are very vocal about not wanting it on the forums would be a bit salty I guess, but they should remember it's a game and that including orcas in the game and giving attention to their situation, will help them more in real life than ignoring them completely.
If you don't want orcas and dolphins, just don't put them in your zoo, but don't kill the happiness that other players would have with them. Marine animals are also much more unique than any possible land animal pack in which half the animals would end up being reskins anyways.

So I politely appeal to all people who are against cetaceans in PZ, to consider that it would be good to bring attention to them through the game and that it would be fun and enjoyable for others. If you don't like them, don't use them, but don't be killjoys (I didn't like some DLC animals either, and I just opted not to use them, rather than complain about them).

Cheers,
 
I'm here to say that orcas and dolphins are a must, and that they can transform it into an nice challenge for the player to create large ethical exhibits for them.(and lots more).



Fair enough. You can express your opinion but those of us against including them can have ours too... this isn’t about spoiling anyone’s fun, it’s about the game maintaining it’s stated aim of educating about animal welfare and conservation in a zoo setting.

In this context there are several issues:

1) no cetaceans have been successfully bred in captivity for conservation anywhere, ever.

2) most cetaceans would require a space (much) larger than the whole map to be kept ethically.

3) most cetaceans do very, very badly in captivity.

4) cetaceans are, at absolute best, only very, very, very rarely kept in zoos - there are lots and lots (several hundred) species that would be better to add to the game than cetaceans. Given that there will only be a limited number of DLC releases, any cetacean added will inevitably be at the expense of a more deserving and realistic addition.
 
I'm here to say that orcas and dolphins are a must, and that they can transform it into an nice challenge for the player to create large ethical exhibits for them.
I'm going to have to--I hope equally politely--say no on this, personally. I think the thing that I, and other people, are not vibing with this kind of suggestion is that it is not possible (in reality) to create an ethical exhibit for these creatures. These sentiments are mutually exclusive: if there is an exhibit, it is harmful for the animal. There's not really a way around that and that's sort of why this suggestion is so contentious.

Games don't have the mirror reality perfectly--or even a little!--but I'd like to argue that putting cetaceans in a game that markets itself as educational and as attempting to be realistic does actually, mechanically speaking, present a version of the world where it's okay for these animals to be in captivity. You're suggesting that dolphins and orcas would be beneficial in the game so that players can learn about them ("giving attention to their situation, will help them more in real life than ignoring them completely"), but I'd like to counter that with all the people who won't learn from what the game says, but instead look at what the game does--i.e., has them as animals you can raise "healthily" in captivity. Whether or not people learn or are motivated to help or educate themselves in any way is a hypothetical, not a given, I feel--especially when learning about the animals is ultimately optional re: the gameplay.

I have a feeling everyone asking for these cetaceans would be very upset if the way Frontier chose to interpret "realism" in this case was that all dolphins and orcas in the game can never get above, say, 25% welfare. No matter what you did. No matter how well researched, or how beautifully designed the habitat, or how many enrichment items or vets assigned or anything. No matter what these animals are always just on the cusp of filling your zoo with protestors--or even just their presence in your zoo attracts protestors. That would be educational for players. You would see how hard it is to care for these animals appropriately, and that I would agree would be an incredibly powerful educational statement to make using this game.

But that's no fun, is it? Like you said, everyone wants an enjoyable experience. No-one like the protestors, or wants to see their animals suffering. People just want to build pretty habitats and have everything be okay, and I understand that desire, because I also love that about Planet Zoo: I like being able to briefly live in a world where I can make things okay for these animals. It's nice.

But in this instance, I think that kind of escapism is actually looking away from the real life situation. If the only "education" available from orcas and dolphins being included in the game is the Zoopedia entry saying "they suffer very badly from captivity, it's important to protest institutions that keep and monetise these animals, they should not be kept and used for entertainment" then I just don't think that's really doing anything at all as far as actually spreading awareness in a meaningful way. If you say one thing but do another, it drastically undermines the message, in my opinion.

I am sorry that my desire (and others') not to see this in the game is felt as a killjoy for you and others, though. If me talking about how deeply uneasy I am with the concept of these marine animals in the game kills your joy, that's unfortunate to hear, but that's just the impasse we are at as a community, I guess.
 
Yes please.

It's a game.

Oh blimey! last time I checked IRL zoos and aquarium have cetaceans within their premises, following strict regulations and legislation. So it's REALISTIC to have cetaceans in a realistic zoo game. And they don't require huge amount of space ;)

Is it unethical? Yes. Probably as much as keeping ANY ANIMAL enclosed against their will. Coincidentally, the most PZ viewed YT video is about a lad building an unethical zoo.

Does that mean I don't care about animal welfare, morals and ethics? Absolutely not. I'm against the concept of zoo IRL, but I understand their role of zoos as ambassadors of the natural environment, promoting education, research and conservation of species [and I am also as well against the use of animals for experimental research - but understand it's needed, we should prioritise how to reduce it; but that's a different topic].

In conclusion: yes, I want to see cetaceans in a zoo game - but I know 99.9% Frontier will not deliver them. But modders...
 
So it's REALISTIC to have cetaceans in a realistic zoo game. And they don't require huge amount of space ;)
Of course it’s realistic to have them in zoos - but it’s not realistic for it be possible for them to have good welfare.
Is it unethical? Yes. Probably as much as keeping ANY ANIMAL enclosed against their will.
No, it really isn’t. Is it ethically as bad to keep a mouse as a whale in an enclosure the size of a football field?.. obviously an extreme (exaggerated) example. But enough to prove your statement wrong.
Coincidentally, the most PZ viewed YT video is about a lad building an unethical zoo.
Of course it’s possible to not provide an ethical environment in-game. The difference is that, for cetaceans, it shouldn’t be possible to provide anything other than an unethical environment in a zoo-like environment.
 
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And they don't require huge amount of space ;)
Well, that's just inaccurate, and I think you know it, based on that cheeky little wink emoji
Is it unethical? Yes. Probably as much as keeping ANY ANIMAL enclosed against their will. Coincidentally, the most PZ viewed YT video is about a lad building an unethical zoo.
This has always been a silly argument to me. People have a tendency to anthropomorphize animals and project their own feelings on them. It's entirely possible for an animal, say a lion, to have it's needs fully satisfied in a captive setting.

There is a quite a large difference in an animal being kept in small subpar conditions, such as Victorian era concrete enclosures or Tiger King style breeding pits, and an animal being kept in a large natural setting where it receives plenty of enrichment opportunities, medical help and generally lives a life of luxury.
 
This has always been a silly argument to me. People have a tendency to anthropomorphize animals and project their own feelings on them. It's entirely possible for an animal, say a lion, to have it's needs fully satisfied in a captive setting.

There is a quite a large difference in an animal being kept in small subpar conditions, such as Victorian era concrete enclosures or Tiger King style breeding pits, and an animal being kept in a large natural setting where it receives plenty of enrichment opportunities, medical help and generally lives a life of luxury.
I think most of those People are against it because of Fake Documentaries like Blackfish (I wish that Movie never existed). Maybe it was similar to that at one Point in the Past but since then a lot has changed. Parks like SeaWorld do their absolute best to care for their Animals. As far as I know they even completely changed the Subject of their Shows from being only for Entertainment to also being educational and natural Behaviors are shown in those new Shows.

It's also completely wrong what someone wrote that Cetaceans where never successfully bred in Captivity. It happened multiple Times that Bottlenose Dolphins and Orcas where born in Captivity. It's also a stupid Suggestion that they shouldn't be able to reach more than 25% of Welfare. It's a Game, Players can make the Tanks as big as they want. Maybe they can do something like the Polar Bear Situation with Tanks in unrealistic Sizes. This would at least be better than no Cetaceans at all.

I hope if we should never get Cetaceans in the Game that Frontier at least finds a Way to make Mod Animals available in Franchise someday (maybe they could add the Possibility to get rescued Animals in Franchise Mode and from those rescued Animals the Players could slowly start to build up a big Population that they can then trade with each other)
 
Can I just note I've never seen any cetaceans or sharks in a zoo? Not once. The ones I have seen have been in aquariums. Which, Planet Zoo currently isn't. There have been marine expansions for past zoo games , but until Planet Zoo begins to go down that path, I assume it's not going to be implemented in Planet Zoo, and am hopeful their next venture will be Planet Aquarium in a few years.
 
Can I just note I've never seen any cetaceans or sharks in a zoo? Not once. The ones I have seen have been in aquariums. Which, Planet Zoo currently isn't. There have been marine expansions for past zoo games , but until Planet Zoo begins to go down that path, I assume it's not going to be implemented in Planet Zoo, and am hopeful their next venture will be Planet Aquarium in a few years.
Germany had Bottlenose Dolphins in many Zoos (now only in 1 or 2). Loro Parque in Spain is a Zoo which keeps Killer Whales but they do also breed Parrots and release them to the Wild. They seem to also have many other Animals
 
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