Game Discussions Microsoft Flight Simulator

[[VR] optimal_909]

If you are mainly doing civil flying I would advise a yoke and throttle for immersion

Mostly immersion, although it also depends on how well each game implements mouse control. Playing for instance X-Plane 11 with mouse is completely possible, but feels "clunky". ED on the other hand plays wonderfully with mouse (although I now use HOTAS , mostly for immersion again).

For Elite I never felt the need of having a HOTAS, on one hand KB+M was good for combat, on the other hand there were loads of 'off hands' parts in the gameplay like navigating the map.

Also, I used to have steering wheel and I just don't like these big peripherals laying around, especially as VR is already there.

I guess real atmospheric flight is more hands-on so I can imagine it feels much better to fly with a yolk or a stick.

Even if I decide to get something, there is the question of whether it should be a yolk (better for FS), or a stick that could be used for SW Squadrons too. So I guess I will start with KB+M and if FS will be that addictive then I'll get something.

Decisions-decisions...

 

[askavir]

For Elite I never felt the need of having a HOTAS, on one hand KB+M was good for combat, on the other hand there were loads of 'off hands' parts in the gameplay like navigating the map.

Also, I used to have steering wheel and I just don't like these big peripherals laying around, especially as VR is already there.

I guess real atmospheric flight is more hands-on so I can imagine it feels much better to fly with a yolk or a stick.

Even if I decide to get something, there is the question of whether it should be a yolk (better for FS), or a stick that could be used for SW Squadrons too. So I guess I will start with KB+M and if FS will be that addictive then I'll get something.

Decisions-decisions...

I can only tell you about my personal experience, but I bought ED on it's release day and played keyboard and mouse for 4 years. Then less than a year ago I finally decided to get a Hotas, especially because flight sims were finally making a comeback (I played lots of flight sims in the 90's, 00's), so I could use it not just for ED but for several other games like X-Plane11, Il-2 Sturmovik, Rise of Flight, DCS, Take Off Helicopters, etc.

While playing ED with KB/M never gave me any disadvantage at all, control was very precise, practical and pleasant, playing with a HOTAS is just so incredibly satisfying... I know it's mostly immersion, and it's hard to explain properly, but it just feels fantastic. If you plan on playing other sims as well, the I truly recommend you try one. It cranked up my playing time by several orders of magnitude, and even trivial things like flying over some hills on a planet, approaching a planetary port and docking, or doing an invert dive into some canyon just feel fantastic, even just faffing around with the ship becomes actual gameplay. Even when flying "softly" like roleplayinmg a passenger ships it's still incredibly enjoyable,

I started with the Thrustmaster T160000M HOTAS, which while not the cheapest it's still not that expensive either, and throttle/stick can even be bought separatly making it cheap to replace if needed. (it also has pedals but I never bought them due to extra clutter, and the stick has twist so no need for pedals for yaw). It's a very nice entry HOTAS, has a nice feel and loads of buttons, hats and axis. Not great on build quality though, but that is somewhat offset for being cheap to replace individual components. I loved my initial experience so much I have then felt confident to get a more costly HOTAS and upgraded to my current Logitech X56.

The only downside (besides needing to spend money of course), it that the first moments might feel a bit frustrating, until you finally get the bindings to your liking. This can actually take days or even weeks until you feel they're "just right". If you ever had to adjust the mirrors on a motorcycle, it's the same feeling

Also, at first you'll feel like a noob again, until you get the same levels of muscle memory you already had with the mouse (anmd until you can finally remember what buttons are bound to what ). At least I did, but once you overcome it it's just truly fantastic.

 

[Chris Simon]

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ1X4N49lnI


I'm putting this flight on the bucket list once the game is out.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

I can only tell you about my personal experience, but I bought ED on it's release day and played keyboard and mouse for 4 years. Then less than a year ago I finally decided to get a Hotas, especially because flight sims were finally making a comeback (I played lots of flight sims in the 90's, 00's), so I could use it not just for ED but for several other games like X-Plane11, Il-2 Sturmovik, Rise of Flight, DCS, Take Off Helicopters, etc.

While playing ED with KB/M never gave me any disadvantage at all, control was very precise, practical and pleasant, playing with a HOTAS is just so incredibly satisfying... I know it's mostly immersion, and it's hard to explain properly, but it just feels fantastic. If you plan on playing other sims as well, the I truly recommend you try one. It cranked up my playing time by several orders of magnitude, and even trivial things like flying over some hills on a planet, approaching a planetary port and docking, or doing an invert dive into some canyon just feel fantastic, even just faffing around with the ship becomes actual gameplay. Even when flying "softly" like roleplayinmg a passenger ships it's still incredibly enjoyable,

I started with the Thrustmaster T160000M HOTAS, which while not the cheapest it's still not that expensive either, and throttle/stick can even be bought separatly making it cheap to replace if needed. (it also has pedals but I never bought them due to extra clutter, and the stick has twist so no need for pedals for yaw). It's a very nice entry HOTAS, has a nice feel and loads of buttons, hats and axis. Not great on build quality though, but that is somewhat offset for being cheap to replace individual components. I loved my initial experience so much I have then felt confident to get a more costly HOTAS and upgraded to my current Logitech X56.

The only downside (besides needing to spend money of course), it that the first moments might feel a bit frustrating, until you finally get the bindings to your liking. This can actually take days or even weeks until you feel they're "just right". If you ever had to adjust the mirrors on a motorcycle, it's the same feeling

Also, at first you'll feel like a noob again, until you get the same levels of muscle memory you already had with the mouse (anmd until you can finally remember what buttons are bound to what ). At least I did, but once you overcome it it's just truly fantastic.

Thanks, you might just have convinced me to buy an entry level Thrustmaster. When it comes to keybinding, how can you handle complex sims, especially in VR? I know having the KB at the side is a thing, but in VR it must be a pain to use so.
Also, I guess in PVP KB+M still rules, so for Star Wars Squadrons it might not be the ideal thing, especially considering the excessive wear&tear when doing wild direction changes.

 

[askavir]

Thanks, you might just have convinced me to buy an entry level Thrustmaster. When it comes to keybinding, how can you handle complex sims, especially in VR? I know having the KB at the side is a thing, but in VR it must be a pain to use so.
Also, I guess in PVP KB+M still rules, so for Star Wars Squadrons it might not be the ideal thing, especially considering the excessive wear&tear when doing wild direction changes.

I don't use VR, only head/eye tracking, so I can't really help you there... However, assuming I couldn't actually see the controls (either keyboard or hotas) I believe it would be much easier to find the correct button / hat / switch on a hotas, than a specific key on a keyboard. But maybe it's better that somewhat with actual VR experience pitches in.

Regarding PvP, the reason why it KB/M rules in ED is because of Frontier "relative mouse" control setting implementation that makes aiming in FA Off much easier because it centers itself automatically. But this is specific to ED, may not hold true to different games. I agree on the wear and tear, "twitchy" games will likely wear out the hotas much faster.

Another option to consider for some games is a gamepad. Much simpler and cheaper than a HOTAS, and provides some basic analog controls, might be worth it to more twitchy space games, like SW or Everspace etc, as long as it doesn't need a lot of buttons. I know that using a gamepad on a PC sounds blasphemy, but after many years I bought one for racing games (keyboard control sucks for racing games, and I don't play them enough to be worth investing on a wheel), and it works well on more "arcadey" flying games.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

I don't use VR, only head/eye tracking, so I can't really help you there... However, assuming I couldn't actually see the controls (either keyboard or hotas) I believe it would be much easier to find the correct button / hat / switch on a hotas, than a specific key on a keyboard. But maybe it's better that somewhat with actual VR experience pitches in.

Regarding PvP, the reason why it KB/M rules in ED is because of Frontier "relative mouse" control setting implementation that makes aiming in FA Off much easier because it centers itself automatically. But this is specific to ED, may not hold true to different games. I agree on the wear and tear, "twitchy" games will likely wear out the hotas much faster.

Another option to consider for some games is a gamepad. Much simpler and cheaper than a HOTAS, and provides some basic analog controls, might be worth it to more twitchy space games, like SW or Everspace etc, as long as it doesn't need a lot of buttons. I know that using a gamepad on a PC sounds blasphemy, but after many years I bought one for racing games (keyboard control sucks for racing games, and I don't play them enough to be worth investing on a wheel), and it works well on more "arcadey" flying games.

As a console fugitive I am most comfortable with gamepads, with GTA IV I was really good at navigating dense traffic while landing headshots in online racing.

As much as I prefer PC now, I still have my 13-year old Dualshock3 whose battery and buttons are still great and fully operational, so I might give it a try too.

Anyway, I'm almost glad FS won't support VR at launch because I'm pretty sure I'll need to alt-tab out to check for information literally 'on-the-fly'.

 

[Mengy]

I just wish there was at leas one helicopter. It's criminal to model the ground in such detail and restrict flight to fixed-wing...

Choppers are coming later. They couldn't get the flight model for helicopters done for launch, but it's in development and will be coming later on.

I've ordered the parts for my new PC and they will all be here mid next week. Still going to use my GTX070 for now until the new Ampere 30XX cards come out soon. It will feel good to have a modern PC finally!

 

[Viajero]

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ1X4N49lnI


I'm putting this flight on the bucket list once the game is out.

Casually clicked, then proceeded to summarily watch it all. Amazing how the landing strip itself only appeared to view in the last few seconds.

I can see there is going to be a lot of navigation stuff to learn here.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Gonna end up just like the other's, 12 year old's will all obtain Air Force One and spend their time ramming other's.

By Dawns Early Light: The Game?

 

[EDanaII]

Thanks, you might just have convinced me to buy an entry level Thrustmaster. When it comes to keybinding, how can you handle complex sims, especially in VR? I know having the KB at the side is a thing, but in VR it must be a pain to use so.
Also, I guess in PVP KB+M still rules, so for Star Wars Squadrons it might not be the ideal thing, especially considering the excessive wear&tear when doing wild direction changes.

I use a T16000 in VR. My throttle and stick are mounted on a board and set about 18 inches apart and the keyboard is shoved in between them. I can find all my keys without taking the headset off, although, on occasion, I do have to look through a crack to find a key. I am a touch-typist, however, so that helps considerably.

 

[Chris Simon]

Casually clicked, then proceeded to summarily watch it all. Amazing how the landing strip itself only appeared to view in the last few seconds.

I can see there is going to be a lot of navigation stuff to learn here.

What made me laugh was when he said he's looking for a particular tree so he knows where to turn final.
And also "We'll be landing on the runway 21. It's only 21, because there's a mountain on the other side"

btw. since then I watched several of his videos and this guy is amazing. No flying by feel, no "winging it". Just numbers, tables, thinking miles ahead. A model pilot.

 

[Wendake]

Can't wait to take out my XCUB and do some bush landing exploring different places in FS2020...last FS I played was the 1998 edition...had such a blast playing it when I was young ! 18th of august can't come fast enough !

 

[Faded Glory]

What made me laugh was when he said he's looking for a particular tree so he knows where to turn final.

A good friend of mine's father was an airline pilot, used to fly 747's into Hong Kong's Kai Tak airport. Since this was many years ago (a long time before 9/11), one trip my friend went with his dad and was invited to sit in the cockpit for the landing.

Father explained that they would aim for a mountain, and then turn sharp right in order to line up with the runway. Son asks his dad at what point do they turn right, expecting some numerical coordinates. Dad says it's when we pass the Hilton Hotel (I think it was the Hilton, but it was definitely a highrise hotel in the city). Son assumes dad was kidding and that there really was or must be a set of coordinates where they turn. Apparently it was when they passed the Hilton Hotel...

It's a true story (although of course there may well be a set of coordinates that pilots used also).

 

[Viajero]

A good friend of mine's father was an airline pilot, used to fly 747's into Hong Kong's Kai Tak airport. Since this was many years ago (a long time before 9/11), one trip my friend went with his dad and was invited to sit in the cockpit for the landing.

Father explained that they would aim for a mountain, and then turn sharp right in order to line up with the runway. Son asks his dad at what point do they turn right, expecting some numerical coordinates. Dad says it's when we pass the Hilton Hotel (I think it was the Hilton, but it was definitely a highrise hotel in the city). Son assumes dad was kidding and that there really was or must be a set of coordinates where they turn. Apparently it was when they passed the Hilton Hotel...

It's a true story (although of course there may well be a set of coordinates that pilots used also).

New to all this, but to be fair, unless what the son really meant was some kind of auto pilot maneuvering it probably was easier to spot the Hilton than to spot some little figures in a little screen in the dashboard

 

[Chris Simon]

New to all this, but to be fair, unless what the son really meant was some kind of auto pilot maneuvering it probably was easier to spot the Hilton than to spot some little figures in a little screen in the dashboard

Plus I think even airline pilots when navigating over a difficult terrain (like a city) will always prefer VFR when possible. And there are two of them anyway so pilot monitoring can pay attention to the instruments while pilot flying can... simply fly.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

It's called "pilotage".

We called it the school bus and water tower navigation system...

 

[Mole HD]

It's called "pilotage".

We called it the school bus and water tower navigation system...

Many moons ago I was a back seat passenger in an army Westland Scout helicopter...they were casevac'ing me to Rheinzehlen military hospital from Saltau training area after I jumped off the searchlight on a Chieftain turret...fully expecting a 10 foot drop, I was mightily surprised when I fell down a totally unseen 30' deep engineer anti tank ditch I had parked next to in the dark...popped both my knees out. Anyways...on the way there, the pilot got lost then hovered over the autobahn and got his air gunner to read the road signs via the tow missile sight to get the general direction he should be heading...never trusted Army Air Corps chopper pilots after that

 

[Rubbernuke]

Many moons ago I was a back seat passenger in an army Westland Scout helicopter...they were casevac'ing me to Rheinzehlen military hospital from Saltau training area after I jumped off the searchlight on a Chieftain turret...fully expecting a 10 foot drop, I was mightily surprised when I fell down a totally unseen 30' deep engineer anti tank ditch I had parked next to in the dark...popped both my knees out. Anyways...on the way there, the pilot got lost then hovered over the autobahn and got his air gunner to read the road signs via the tow missile sight to get the general direction he should be heading...never trusted Army Air Corps chopper pilots after that

Although it was in the Air Cadets, I once had a trip to Boscombe Down. One of the treats (other than KC 135s, U2s, test beds ), we were all invited for a jolly in a Hercules transport. While we were in the air the loadmaster supervising us ensured we were all strapped in and popped the rear ramp. It was brilliant / bowel loosening to be whizzing so low across the land, although some of my other cadets squealed like Alton Towers victims.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Question to experienced flight simmers: is HOTAS mandatory for the controls, or immersion aspect?
I used to play Elite with KB+M (in VR too), and had no issues with immersion or precision flying like docking and stuff.

I am planning to take the hard route by setting everything on simulation even if that means doing simple training flights around the airport in a Cessna for weeks.

Usually not for civilian craft sims. HOTAS reduces the workload in combat sims where you operate avionics/targetting, comms and weapon systems. You may find it more convenient to have more buttons on your stick rather than usingh the keyboars all the time.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

Usually not for civilian craft sims. HOTAS reduces the workload in combat sims where you operate avionics/targetting, comms and weapon systems. You may find it more convenient to have more buttons on your stick rather than usingh the keyboars all the time.

In Elite, I mapped all mouse buttons plus all the directional and large keys on the side of the keyboard, so all controls were pretty easy to find even in VR. But I guess operating an aircraft needs much more keys than Elite's ships...