Game Discussions Microsoft Flight Simulator

[Ian Skippy]

I'll wave as I fly past.

It's not a part of the world I'm at all familiar with really, so even though by the 3rd attempt I didn't even need any of the instructions or VFR map because I knew the way, and obviously I was p'd off at having to do it all yet again... the scenery is so nice it's hard to really get bored with it. I'm looking forward to attempting the whole thing, though something tells me it'll take me much more than the 9 hours that it suggests.

Wish they'd add more bush trips... three doesn't seem enough. Seems like such a low-effort win for the devs, I'm surprised they haven't already added a few more.

Given the current state of the game I doubt they are in a position to really focus on more content... :/

 

[AkenBosch]

Taildraggers are all prone to facepalming (and have bad visibility when taxiing), and I guess we're "lucky" that the propellers don't seem to have a collision model, I lost count of how many botched flights I had on IL-2 just from leaning forward too much and wrecking the propeller blades on landing and sometimes even before taking off

I think that's an integral part of any proper IL2 experience, and probably a good number of real life experiences at the time also.

After my second crash, I did a few test landings in the Cub and found that I have to brake and pull back on the stick until it stops. That works. If you don't, you'll just tip forward and hit the tarmac - game over.

I'm far from being sure about it so I might be telling nonsense, but I seem to remember pulling back is actually part of a correct braking manoeuver on such planes.

I've recently been playing around in the Robin 400, which I do like, but I cannot get it to trim to correctly under any circumstances, and as a result, either the angle of attack is completely off because the trim for even flight is actually lifting the nose up too much, or I'm having to have constant pressure on the stick if I relax the trim a bit (and then the aot is only slightly off).

It also seems to be a bit squirrely when it comes to rpm / speed for landing, it'll be way too fast, requiring a significant pull back of the throttle, and then the speed will drop to an extent that I need to go practically full throttle again to stop it stalling (but it doesn't really pick up much speed even though I'm still descending). Not had that issue with any other plane that I've flown - although I imagine it's something I'm doing wrong.

Strange, I have an almost opposite experience about the little wooden plane. I especially liked its ability to keep level flight and roll stability, and I find it far easier to trim than something like the Icon or VL3 for example...what I'm having issues with is its VOR instrumentation, not sure what I'm doing wrong but I've yet to get it to work, so it's been just pure VFR for the few hours I've flown so far...

As for throttle, it seems to be a bit squirrely indeed. With something like the 152 I'm used to just pull back around a quarter of throttle to keep it a few hundreds rpm below red line after take off, with the Robin I don't seem to get any noticeable slowing down in rpm until I almost hit half throttle, then the plane is already slowing down a bit too much. Never had issues bringing it down though, with flaps down the thing keeps floating even at walking speed.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I think that's an integral part of any proper IL2 experience, and probably a good number of real life experiences at the time also.



I'm far from being sure about it so I might be telling nonsense, but I seem to remember pulling back is actually part of a correct braking manoeuver on such planes.



Strange, I have an almost opposite experience about the little wooden plane. I especially liked its ability to keep level flight and roll stability, and I find it far easier to trim than something like the Icon or VL3 for example...what I'm having issues with is its VOR instrumentation, not sure what I'm doing wrong but I've yet to get it to work, so it's been just pure VFR for the few hours I've flown so far...

As for throttle, it seems to be a bit squirrely indeed. With something like the 152 I'm used to just pull back around a quarter of throttle to keep it a few hundreds rpm below red line after take off, with the Robin I don't seem to get any noticeable slowing down in rpm until I almost hit half throttle, then the plane is already slowing down a bit too much. Never had issues bringing it down though, with flaps down the thing keeps floating even at walking speed.

I've now around 3000 NM in the DR400, IMHO:

1) Trim indeed works quite well. As it has no AP and I had to sometimes fly lengthy legs over nothing but endless forests I've often set it so I can pretty much let go of the stick with it keeping level for extended periods of times.

2) It is certainly a bit more sporty in every way compared with the C152. With a little bit of fuel leaning, even at sea level, it will easily go 3000 RPM beyond the red line. At this point the throttle is responsive along the entire axis. I suspect that with rich fuel you are bottlenecking the RPM so pulling back on the throttle initially doesn't do much. I have no clue how any of this works under the hood, so just going by how it reacts.

3) The DR400 is my only 'IFR' plane in FSE, and I've gotten fairly used to VOR by now. What exactly is happening that you didn't expect to happen? And is it only in this plane or in FS2020 in general for you?

 

[AkenBosch]

2) I'm using auto mixture 'cause I'm a filthy casual, but it might well be as you say.

3) now that you make me think about it, I've actually tried VOR only in the DR400, the other ones were all glass cockpits with all the fancy GPS sorcery. I set up a short test flight from my "home" Aeritalia airport to Malpensa, switched the VOR frequency to active and...the heading line just stood there, no heading whatsoever. Tried with Caselle, literally a few km North from Aeritalia, nothing. But I'm pretty sure it's just me missing on something as trivial as it is obvious.

 

[Ian Skippy]

2) I'm using auto mixture 'cause I'm a filthy casual, but it might well be as you say.

Ha! If you have a spare axis try going for manual. There is far less to it than I initially feared and it gives you one more thing to fiddle with.

3) now that you make me think about it, I've actually tried VOR only in the DR400, the other ones were all glass cockpits with all the fancy GPS sorcery. I set up a short test flight from my "home" Aeritalia airport to Malpensa, switched the VOR frequency to active and...the heading line just stood there, no heading whatsoever. Tried with Caselle, literally a few km North from Aeritalia, nothing. But I'm pretty sure it's just me missing on something as trivial as it is obvious.

If the to/from bar on the VOR meter is obscured/off with the little red/white lines it means it is not receiving a signal. Usually that is due to three causes:
1) Wrong freq entered.
2) Correct freq entered, but you still have it in the 'standby' slot. Just switch it to active like you'd do with comms. (seems like you did this part correctly, but saying it for others reading)
3) You have the correct freq active, but the signal simply cannot reach your plane. That is either because you are too low or there is something (like a hill) blocking the signal. You typically need to be at least 1-2k feet up for local signals, and for distant signals you really need to get quite a bit up in the air. This is what confused me initially.

Some airfields with their own beacon allow you to connect with it while still standing on the ground. I'll see if I can find one later, you can check you are doing your part correctly by tuning in to it before take-off.

 

[AkenBosch]

1) right freq
2) switched to active
3) probably nailed! I should have been less lazy and try it again after take off

 

[Juniper]

Given the current state of the game I doubt they are in a position to really focus on more content... :/

Given the current Moan Level of the community, a few extra bush trips might cheer people up a bit.

No problems for me at all this weekend so far. In fact, I continue to be impressed by how intuitive the flight model is, and the detail of the atmospheric fluctuations. Aside from one freeze that then resumed after a couple of seconds, rock solid too.

 

[AkenBosch]

Oh yes, forgot to mention, had my first two crashes to desktop the last time I played, I expected it to get more stable after the patch, not the opposite!

 

[Hairychest]

What plane are you using for this trip?

Reason I ask is that I finally had a chance to fire this game up and actually play yesterday, and decided to do the Yosemite bush trip. It's in a Cub. First leg (the longest of all of them, winding through the Sierra Nevada mountains... glorious) which takes about an hour (they say 41 minutes, but they lie) went well... found all the various turnoffs I was supposed to take and didn't need the "Get Me Back On Track" option... only to finally facepalm the runway at the end due to the plane tipping over when stationary! TWICE!!!

Third time was finally the charm and I finally managed to get the plane to stop whilst still upright.

As it isn't a formal Bush Trip - you can use whatever you want. I've used, Cub, C172, Caravan, Baron so far...

Also don't forget, on the Bush Trips in the game, the wind is at a fixed heading and speed for the entire trip BUT is is usually a side wind landing - they have been crafty!

The route I dropped yesterday gives plenty of options for 'excursions' - you could drop into Ireland from Tiree or Prestwick, go see the Isle of Man and the Lake District from West Feugh (near my parents). Enjoy the Highlands from Aboyne...

It was just a circular tour for people to have a crack at and adjust as their interests saw fit.

If they ever do a Bush Trip/Missions editor, I may write it up...

 

[askavir]

At the moment what I'm struggling the most with is with pitch trimming sensitivity.. I set it to a rotary axis, tweaked the settings to make it the smoothest as possible, and it still feels way too twitchy, makes it very hard to keep leveled flight, it's always climbind or descending a little.

As for mixture, like Ian Skippy said, it's much simpler than one might fear and gives another thing to fiddle with. A bit like de-icing controls, now that live weather is finally working (mostly at least) and harsh weathers are now much more common.

At the moment I'm starting all my flights parked and cold and using ground/tower comms for everything. I have almost as much fun switching all the stuff on and making the planes flight ready as while actually flying . My next focus will be getting proficient with VOR and ILS (only flew VFR so far).

 

[Faded Glory]

1) Trim indeed works quite well. As it has no AP and I had to sometimes fly lengthy legs over nothing but endless forests I've often set it so I can pretty much let go of the stick with it keeping level for extended periods of times.

Very strange then, because I have been able to trim every other plane I've flown in the sim, yet the Robin simply won't do it (for me). I noticed that when I start up a flight with it the trim is already at 0.1 up before I have touched it, and to get it to keep even flight at cruise I have to get it to 0.2 (which looks to be about 20% up - and in comparison, the 172 when climbing on ap is doing so at about 13% nose up trim).

As I said, at this point the angle of attack is way out, but if I reduce the nose up trim even back to 0.1 then without me pulling back on the stick it will nose dive. Maybe I'll drop them a zendesk message, I suppose it's possible that I have some corruption.

I've also tried it both using auto fuel mix and manual. The first time I really noticed it was around 7,000 feet and obviously the fuel mix was leaned, but I tested it again at sea level up to 1,000 feet and the behavior was exactly the same.

 

[Ian Skippy]

A new day, a new job. This time flying five folks in a Bonanza G36 from Abbotsford to Hope, both in British Columbia, Canada. Seems simple enough; 50'ish NM, depart from a airport with night services and landing a few minutes later. I depart at the crack of dawn, so by the time I get there it should be pretty easy to land on the local grassy airstrip.

I was wrong.

Fortunately, the plane I leased has the full autopilot set, so I can just toggle it on and sit back. Until I realise that the auto-loaded flightplan is little more than "fly straight at the objective until you faceplant into the nearest mountain."

Bummer.

So I figure I'd try something new; keep the AP on but 'babysit' it throughout the entire journey. I keep plotting new headings into it as I follow a local river. My assumption was more or less that as long as you are directly above water you can't hit a mountain.

When I got to the destination, visibility was, to use the technical aviation term, pants. Ceilings way, way below 400ft. The 'airfield' supposedly is just a bit of grass; no lights, ATC or anything. So I'm pretty proud of this absolutely 100% professional and by-the-book landing. Haters are gonna say this isn't the airfield, but considering there is now an airplane on it I'd guess they'd be wrong.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvhwKqgJd1o

 

[Juniper]

As it isn't a formal Bush Trip - you can use whatever you want. I've used, Cub, C172, Caravan, Baron so far...

Also don't forget, on the Bush Trips in the game, the wind is at a fixed heading and speed for the entire trip BUT is is usually a side wind landing - they have been crafty!

The route I dropped yesterday gives plenty of options for 'excursions' - you could drop into Ireland from Tiree or Prestwick, go see the Isle of Man and the Lake District from West Feugh (near my parents). Enjoy the Highlands from Aboyne...

Made a start on it in a DA40-NG, so my next stop is Tiree. Lewis is a bit disappointing really - Bing maps really showing its lack of coverage there. I can see why Mole was upset. The water is just bizarre & far too angular. Not so evident from the screenshots below, but you can still see it. Triangular waves and hexagonal pools. Erm...?

Weather also isn't great today, with a fair amount of high cloud which basically restricted me to low altitude for most of it to see anything.

Spoiler

If they ever do a Bush Trip/Missions editor, I may write it up...

I really hope they release a mission editor at some point. Something tells me that it'll be reserved for commercial companies though to make bush trips to sell.

 

[Mole HD]

Made a start on it in a DA40-NG, so my next stop is Tiree. Lewis is a bit disappointing really - Bing maps really showing its lack of coverage there. I can see why Mole was upset. The water is just bizarre & far too angular. Not so evident from the screenshots below, but you can still see it. Triangular waves and hexagonal pools. Erm...?

Weather also isn't great today, with a fair amount of high cloud which basically restricted me to low altitude for most of it to see anything.

Spoiler

View attachment 188726
View attachment 188727
View attachment 188728

I really hope they release a mission editor at some point. Something tells me that it'll be reserved for commercial companies though to make bush trips to sell.

The inner and outer Hebrides weren't too bad...I managed to fly over my old farmhouse on South Uist and the scenery wasn't too far off what I remember from living there (A giant peat bog surrounded by sea). The Orkneys however are a complete abomination more akin to Minecraft than a flight sim.

 

[Hairychest]

I had better weather than you.

Just done the Scone to Aboyne, Aboyne to Lossiemouth legs, Took a detour into Royal Deeside and flew over , Glen Affric, Loch Muick, passing Lochnagar and Balmoral (Hello, Your Majesty!). I've mountain biked all round the Glen Affric/Loch Muick/Lochnagar area - really fun!

 

[Old Duck]

I had better weather than you.

Yesterday all I had was sunny skies everywhere, despite that not being the real weather. The winds were working, but it seems the clouds are now broken? I'm hoping it was just a one-day glitch..

 

[AkenBosch]

@Ian Skippy - in the end it was me being just that dumb indeed, VOR seems to work a lot better when you remove some thousands buildings and trees between you and the beacon.

The only problem I'm left with now is that I can't seem to find VOR freqs from the map...my local main airport (LIMF - Caselle) shows all sorts of frequencies for the various runway and approaches, but not the actual VOR beacon (116.75), I had to go to external resources to find it.

 

[Faded Glory]

And I'm happy to report that the trim issue was the pilot.

I'm guessing I was trying to cruise too slow. I was going to post a zendesk report, and wanted better pictures to illustrate what was happening so took a short flight. I was able to trim the plane to level flight with just a small amount of nose up trim (the angle of attack still shows as somewhat off, one green bar and one orange bar), but at a speed of around 185 km/h (approx 100 ktas) the plane flew level without me needing to touch the stick at all.

I do think the trim on that particular plane is quite sensitive as the movements hardly showed on the cockpit trim lever and didn't register at all on the trim indicator on the external cam.

Still had a bit of an issue maintaining consistent airspeed on final approach - the airspeed drops very quickly and even full throttle still seems to struggle to get it back despite the fact I am descending (I'm looking for 130 km/h), however that may also end up being a piloting thing possibly related to trim, so I will play around some more and see whether I can figure it out.

 

[AkenBosch]

I don't even watch the trim lever, I usually just eyeball it from the variometer and it works pretty good also to keep a steady climb or descent rate, of course you'll have to compensate each and every time you throttle back or forward. For landings I aim around 130 km/h as well, usually a bit over that when lined up on final approach, flaps to slow down and level the nose, then extend them fully to slow down to 100 or below just before touching down gently. From my short experience with it, giving a bit of throttle when coming short helps more in getting the nose up without losing additional speed than actually gaining it.

Earlier I did my first short night flight in the Robin, the 30 NM separating Cuneo-Levaldigi from Caselle, in real time and live weather (cloud cover). Flying at night is utterly, absolutely, completely spectacular. Also managed a quite good short landing, I'll see if I can upload a video for reference later.

 

[Faded Glory]

Right, under normal circumstances I don't look at the trim wheel or lever, and rarely pay much attention to the trim indicator in external cam, just look to achieve a steady rate of ascent / descent or level flight where I can take the pressure of the stick. The reason I looked at those things was because the angle of attack was so off (and on a number of occasions the plane simply lost airspeed and stalled), and I assumed this was to do with the trim. In fact though, it seems it was more to do with the airspeed, where the trim was compensating for the fact that at the speed I was traveling, the plane wanted to descend.

And yes, throttling up if you're coming in short simply means you can maintain the correct airspeed while descending less fast, and according to Squirrel (and others), airspeed is the most important factor when flying, which makes sense - hence I've been using the checklists which tend to give airspeed guides for the various phases of a flight, although in the case of the Robin, for cruise they only mention RPM (which of course can / will affect airspeed). Looking at the planes stats though it gives a cruise airspeed of about 115 ktas, and when I was having issues I was well under that.

It's one of the things I'm loving about the game / sim, learning the real world aspects of flying airplanes, and it's a most rewarding feeling (for me at least) when I learn something new, and things drop into place.