Missions, the Background Simulation, and why they should matter to you (and Frontier)

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The mission system and background simulation are vital to making the game enjoyable for everyone, even if you don't play them. But, like the NPC AI, they have to work, and in my opinion are just as important as the AI to fix for the game to succeed.

Ever since release, missions and the BGS have had bugs but the biggest problem is how static they were. Missions were generated at random instead of being tied to the state of the system, gated by pilot rank with confusing and illogical payouts. Doing missions to build influence with a faction or to help them flip systems sorta worked, but the economy of the galaxy was done in a fixed manner rather than what was actually being shipped to and from stations based on system state. Commodity prices and inventory were set arbitrarily rather than working with supply and demand. It was all basically a movie set: things looked great on the screen, but none of the props actually worked.

2.1 aimed to correct a lot of that. Factions in systems give out bigger and better missions based on your reputation with them, giving you a reason to work with them long-term and build up that reputation. Missions are based on the state of the system and faction, providing logical reasons for pilots to help them (important if you take any satisfaction from RP). System states now drive the economy, which in turn affect what the factions ask CMDRs to do for them. All of which is great if you play the BGS or the mission system for fun. As with any new feature the reworked missions and BGS have problems. So why is this important for players who don't run missions of play the BGS?

Here's why this is important for players who don't run missions or play the BGS: the new system states effectively create dynamic, miniature Community Goals wherever they pop up. They greatly increase the potential for profit, reputation gain, conflict (if that's your thing) and most importantly FUN. How?

Systems in famine will pay huge amounts for food. Systems in conflict need weapons. Systems in plague need medicines. Instead of randomly wandering the galaxy looking for profitiable A-B trade routes, there is a logical, reliable way to see where there is money to be made.

So, traders benefit. Regular trade CG's are less about making smart trades and more about volume. You're trying to make it to the top 15% to get the fat bonuses. That means small haul operations aren't nearly as profitable. The little guy in the Adder, Cobra, Asp or T-6 has to grind like mad even to get into a higher tier. But trading on system states pays off huge for whoever can find and deliver the cheapest commodity the fastest. From the Hauler up to the T9 a space trucker can make a profit proportional to the amount of cargo delivered. So, anybody from rookie starting out to the old pros can actually make money. A smart, efficient trader can make a killing by doing a little research in neighboring systems. And when the pool dries up because the system state is satisfied, there's always another system somewhere that will need space truckers to bring in cargo. As a bonus, with the new reputation/mission mechanics, traders can bring in even MORE credits by getting in good with the factions in the target system and flying missions while bringing back the needed commodities.

The multiplayer community benefits: (please note: this is not an open vs solo thread. Please take those discussions to one of the many existing threads.) A common complaint of ED is how empty it feels in open because everyone is so spread out. CG's fix that to a certain extent, but they are programmed by Frontier and exist only in one place for a predetermined period of time. By having searchable system states on the galmap to pull up wars, famines and plagues, players will have reasons to concentrate in systems. In open, where there are traders, pirates will appear. Where there are pirates, bounty hunters will appear. Where players appear, they run out of fuel and Fuel Rats will appear. In Open or Mobius, for those who just like seeing hollow squares on their radar just so the universe doesn't seem empty, it will greatly increase your chances of running into other CMDRs. Again, the fact that these system states are generated by the game based on the BGS means that these mini-CG's will rise and fall around the bubble based on the system states, in turn based on the actions of CMDRs in the game. Player factions in game might even go to war as they manipulate their system states and those of their rivals. Forget PowerPlay - BGS system flipping could really get down and dirty.

Finally, it's a cure for the common grind. It's an age-old argument in the game that it's only a grind if you make it one. I'd argue that the game mechanics have always lent themselves to grinding. I'm a big believer in making your own fun in the sandbox and for a long time believed the game was what you made of it. But after a year of playing missions that had no consequence or looking for the shortest back and forth trade route it gets old. There's only so much pretending one can do before you step back and realize you're just going through the motions of performing an activity rather than having fun with it. The new factions, persistent NPC's and their connection to the BGS have the potential to be more than just window dressing. They can provide a sense of personal investment, either by forming a bond with a faction/system to help them out (or even hurt them), or give CMDRs legitimate reasons to travel to other systems and use the trade route filters on the screens to see where there's money to be made, legitimately or not.

Combined with more intelligent NPC AI, the new missions and BGS are a huge step in the right direction for creating a dynamic, living universe. But they have to work. A lot of attention is being given, and rightfully so, to the NPC super weapon issues... But the inability to complete missions right now is just as important. Not being able to complete missions ruins CMDRs reputations. It costs money. It builds fines, and makes clean CMDRs wanted, not to mention wastes our time. It will make people not want to play the new missions, which in turn means the improved BGS won't be used to its full potential.

My biggest fear is that Frontier is going to concentrate on balancing the AI and fix the NPC superweapons, which again need to be fixed in a hurry - and then not address the missions and BGS until 2.2 or later because they're not as visible. But I honestly think that they are the twin engines which drive all other activity in the game but don't get the attention they deserve because they're not flashy enough.

TL;DR - the mission system and BGS are just as important to making ED fun as AI. And if you agree, please voice your opinion not just here but anywhere the discussion of "content" or "grind" come up, because BGS and the missions it spawn are a fantastic way to make procedurally generated content. Frontier, you've taken HUGE steps in the right direction working on the core of the game. Don't let all the potential wither on the vine by letting the issues linger.
 
Agree 100%, the new missions (and I'm not even on Horizons yet) have really been a shot in the arm for my enjoyment of the game. Having a pet minor faction is actually far more satisfying than Power Play (especially if there are a few other CMDRs invested in it, i.e. Order of Mobius)
 
The issue IMO is that the BGS (and missions) is underdeveloped.
This is what the BGS should have been
VIDEO
This isn't what we got.

So Frontier knew what they needed to develop but couldn't due to time constraints to get the game ready for launch.
Since launch instead of improving on the BGS they worked on PP and CQC etc... GREAT!

Unfortunately due to the way Frontier has structured their business we're unlikely to ever see a BGS like what was described in Kickstarter as they've got to add new and shiny things to bring in money from "season" sales and even if they do work on it somewhat it will just be tinkering around the edges (see every mission overhaul we've had promised since release).
 
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The issue IMO is that the BGS (and missions) is underdeveloped.
This is what the BGS should have been
VIDEO
This isn't what we got.

So Frontier knew what they needed to develop but couldn't due to time constraints to get the game ready for launch.
Since launch instead of improving on the BGS they worked on PP and CQC etc... GREAT!

Unfortunately due to the way Frontier has structured their business we're unlikely to ever see a BGS like what was described in Kickstarter as they've got to add new and shiny things to bring in money from "season" sales and even if they do work on it somewhat it will just be tinkering around the edges (see every mission overhaul we've had promised since release).

In terms of background simulation I would argue that this IS what we have got (even if more can always be done). What we haven't got quite yet is some of the specific event scenarios described there. The current BGS could IMO support these kind of events rather nicely...the events/scenarios themselves still needs to be made and I too want to see them eventually.

Also...the 2.1 mission update was not them "tinkering around the edges". If that's your opinion then fine, but me and many others can't agree with you there. ;)
 
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In terms of background simulation I would argue that this IS what we have got (even if more can always be done). What we haven't got quite yet is some of the specific event scenarios described there. The current BGS could IMO support these kind of events rather nicely...the events/scenarios themselves still needs to be made and I too want to see them eventually.

Also...the 2.1 mission update was not them "tinkering around the edges". If that's your opinion then fine, but me and many others can't agree with you there. ;)

Personally, I agree with King5ton in that the BGS isn't anywhere near what was promised, nor is it anywhere close to where it needs to be. Like I said, 2.1 is a big step in the right direction, but before FD tries to build on it, they need to make it work right. They let a bunch of bugs get through that cripple what the mission system is supposed to do. Missions are supposed to provide rewards, reputation and entertainment. Right now, because of a variety of bugs be they destination redirects that send large ships to platforms with medium pads, missions that can't be turned in if you lack cargo space, missions that don't spawn enough enemies to be destroyed or cargo to be collected, etc etc... That results in no reward (and possibile fines,) reputation loss that will be harder to recover if the faction stops giving you missions because they start hating you, and frustration instead of entertainment.

What all that means is people will try out the 1.6/2.1 system, fail a few times and then stop trying. And if people who actually like the mission system don't speak up it won't be seen as a priority issue and might not get fixed until the next major update. The mission system has been neglected since 1.1, was supposed to be re-written around 1.3 and 1.5, was left riddled with uncompletable missions for months until 1.6/2.1 came out - and now that the mission system is here it has a lot of the same critical problems mixed in to what is actually a really solid update.

Tied in with the newly energized BGS, the new mission system could be a hell of a lot of fun - but only if FD fixes it. I know 1.6/2.1 has been out less than a week, but it was in beta for a month after a lengthy delay for "quality control" purposes. Many, many bugs from 1.4 and 1.5 didn't get fixed for a long time. I don't want to see the same thing happen with 2.1 - it has too much promise.
 
Firstly, the biggest issue is that the BGS is a closed box to us. All we know is through the hard work of us dedicated to actually playing the game via the BGS, and a few snippets of info given out by the Devs.
Want to learn more? ... start here

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=193064

Secondly, the BGS suffers the bugs just like everything else does apparently, the difficulty being you can only identify a potential issue once a day. When the daily tick happens and the influnce % of those Minor factions happens, and states change. Unfortunately, FDev appear to spend far more time shining the knobs of the door, and neglect the frame holding the door up. Proof? It took months of complaining about an inconsistant daily tick, and forum thread called Tracking the tick where daily times were posted when it was observed or not in some cases for them to acknowledge the issue and eventually rectify. People power!

I absolutely agree that so much wasn't fixed following 1.5/2.0, under the promise its getting revamped for 1.6/2.1, and we all went ok. Mission bugs .... here we go again, can't hand in, contact doesn't appear, reach destination but mission not on the board ... sound familiar.
The potential is so great ... I really mean that. And they have done so much with the game in 2.1, especially the graphics as I use a laptop and have noticed a big difference.
And I too don't want to see it happen again ... but it already has to a degree.

My fear is ... a vast majority don't even know what the BGS .. all they know is big guns and big ships .. not realising the BGS is the engine behind those big ships. It needs a Season upgrade all of its own. I'm sure myself and many others would happily play a beta of the BGS for months to iron out problems if it meant it could be introduced in a 99% bug free working model.
 
2.1 mission system is a huge step in the right direction. But yet again buggy. I hope they do not leave for months and months to fix. I am having so much fun. I especially like the mixture of rewards. So a plea to FD please start fixing broken missions as they are reported. Do not leave until 3.0.
 
That was a wall of text but a positive one so you are excused.

I think you have made some great points there and I like it.

I take Piracy and general black ops missions for factions, it pays ok and is fun but the bad ass bounty hunters that follow me around now are a bit of a pain. (Not dead yet tho!) it also locks me in to one style of play and one type of ship (not my T6!) which at the minute is ok but might get tiresome when I want to sneak off to look at some nebula or whatever. I'm too mean to just let them kill me so I guess I will have to live with it for a bit. I'm cool with it but others might not be.

Other than that I think 2.1 is pretty cool.
 
Thanks, OP, more people need to see this. I always wanted to be a mission runner, but haven't done so in a long time because it felt like nothing was happening. When all of the bugs get fixed, I will more than likely return to the game and reset my CMDR to take full advantage of BGS and missions from the start.

I don't agree with people that say someone is supposed to feel insignificant and unimportant in Elite. One of my friends said he liked Elite because he felt like the game reflected real life, where no one cares about you and you are not some chosen one. I can agree that it is nice to not be the thousandth "chosen one" like other MMOs, but there is so much you can do in real life to make a difference even if it doesn't move mountains. So that was one thing I had a hard time with when Elite first started, really only the initial aw kept me playing, but I never felt part of anything. So, based on what you've said I will give the mission/BGS system another chance when the bugs are fixed (and maybe the AI won't be so frustrating). Granted I know I likely won't start economic booms by myself, but it is good to know that it could happen with dynamic content, or that I can play a part in and take advantage of dynamic events. It just needs more work done on it.
 
Personally, I agree with King5ton in that the BGS isn't anywhere near what was promised, nor is it anywhere close to where it needs to be. Like I said, 2.1 is a big step in the right direction, but before FD tries to build on it, they need to make it work right. They let a bunch of bugs get through that cripple what the mission system is supposed to do. Missions are supposed to provide rewards, reputation and entertainment. Right now, because of a variety of bugs be they destination redirects that send large ships to platforms with medium pads, missions that can't be turned in if you lack cargo space, missions that don't spawn enough enemies to be destroyed or cargo to be collected, etc etc... That results in no reward (and possibile fines,) reputation loss that will be harder to recover if the faction stops giving you missions because they start hating you, and frustration instead of entertainment.

What all that means is people will try out the 1.6/2.1 system, fail a few times and then stop trying. And if people who actually like the mission system don't speak up it won't be seen as a priority issue and might not get fixed until the next major update. The mission system has been neglected since 1.1, was supposed to be re-written around 1.3 and 1.5, was left riddled with uncompletable missions for months until 1.6/2.1 came out - and now that the mission system is here it has a lot of the same critical problems mixed in to what is actually a really solid update.

Tied in with the newly energized BGS, the new mission system could be a hell of a lot of fun - but only if FD fixes it. I know 1.6/2.1 has been out less than a week, but it was in beta for a month after a lengthy delay for "quality control" purposes. Many, many bugs from 1.4 and 1.5 didn't get fixed for a long time. I don't want to see the same thing happen with 2.1 - it has too much promise.

Can't rep you again so soon, but I agree 100%.
 
...It just needs more work done on it.
Agreed.
I too have been enjoying the new missions and supposed BGS integration, but I feel like the first bugfix patch can't come soon enough.
I recently wanted to try "impacting" things. So i looked for famine systems to ship food to ...nothing. Ok, how about outbreak systems where i can ship meds ...again, nothing. hmmmm, ok, there has to be some war systems. yes! plenty on the gal map. Click on one-->system-map. Wait, what? They're not at war? but the galmap said... ugh. :(
 
Agreed.
I too have been enjoying the new missions and supposed BGS integration, but I feel like the first bugfix patch can't come soon enough.
I recently wanted to try "impacting" things. So i looked for famine systems to ship food to ...nothing. Ok, how about outbreak systems where i can ship meds ...again, nothing. hmmmm, ok, there has to be some war systems. yes! plenty on the gal map. Click on one-->system-map. Wait, what? They're not at war? but the galmap said... ugh. :(

It's a "known issue"...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=254040

But this is a case in point. They went through the trouble of putting this mechanic in the game, but it doesn't work... which is a crying shame because it's exactly what players in the game need in order to make what would be a great mechanic work.

[video=youtube;ilcRS5eUpwk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilcRS5eUpwk[/video]
 
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TL;DR - the mission system and BGS are just as important to making ED fun as AI. And if you agree, please voice your opinion not just here but anywhere the discussion of "content" or "grind" come up, because BGS and the missions it spawn are a fantastic way to make procedurally generated content. Frontier, you've taken HUGE steps in the right direction working on the core of the game. Don't let all the potential wither on the vine by letting the issues linger.
Agreed. Playing the BGS and supporting a minor faction is what keeps me playing the game (~ 2000 hrs).
 
I have been taken with playing the BGS ever since the Lugh wars. I moved there pretty soon in my playing career. Lugh is a character out of Irish mythology, and I am a amateur student of that topic. So I moved my operations over there. A nice Fed system, all was great. Then those MoM guys came and stole it from me. All I had left to show for it was a ton of credits and a kitted Vulture. (Thanks MoM, lol Crimson State indeed.) From there I moved to another nice Fed system, but the name was lackluster. No hints because I could move back.

I do think more players would enjoy working with the BGS if and when they just got started. It's a different sort of progression. If your so inclined, like I am, you get a real feeling of ownership, and a compelling reason to log in. I have some Factions that attack me on site, clean or otherwise. They make me richer.

I also see the genesis of what Mr. Braben was talking about in that video. If you are one that accepts the idea of Elite being a game of constant development, like I am, you shouldn't take everything he said as set in stone. The frame work, and actual mechanism wasn't in place then, and what they are delivering moves and is represented in his pitch. If I had seen that video when it was new, I would have given him money, and I'd still be happy about that choice now.

I would edit that OP down and 'Spoiler' the details, and you could expect many more readers and more responses if you did. I mostly forget about the whole Repping thing, but you got a vote from me. If a thread like this were to be sustained, FD would have a great resource for getting an idea what we are seeing, and compare that to what they are expecting.
 
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The mission system and background simulation are vital to making the game enjoyable for everyone, even if you don't play them. But, like the NPC AI, they have to work, and in my opinion are just as important as the AI to fix for the game to succeed.

Ever since release, missions and the BGS have had bugs but the biggest problem is how static they were. Missions were generated at random instead of being tied to the state of the system, gated by pilot rank with confusing and illogical payouts. Doing missions to build influence with a faction or to help them flip systems sorta worked, but the economy of the galaxy was done in a fixed manner rather than what was actually being shipped to and from stations based on system state. Commodity prices and inventory were set arbitrarily rather than working with supply and demand. It was all basically a movie set: things looked great on the screen, but none of the props actually worked.

2.1 aimed to correct a lot of that. Factions in systems give out bigger and better missions based on your reputation with them, giving you a reason to work with them long-term and build up that reputation. Missions are based on the state of the system and faction, providing logical reasons for pilots to help them (important if you take any satisfaction from RP). System states now drive the economy, which in turn affect what the factions ask CMDRs to do for them. All of which is great if you play the BGS or the mission system for fun. As with any new feature the reworked missions and BGS have problems. So why is this important for players who don't run missions of play the BGS?

Here's why this is important for players who don't run missions or play the BGS: the new system states effectively create dynamic, miniature Community Goals wherever they pop up. They greatly increase the potential for profit, reputation gain, conflict (if that's your thing) and most importantly FUN. How?

Systems in famine will pay huge amounts for food. Systems in conflict need weapons. Systems in plague need medicines. Instead of randomly wandering the galaxy looking for profitiable A-B trade routes, there is a logical, reliable way to see where there is money to be made.

So, traders benefit. Regular trade CG's are less about making smart trades and more about volume. You're trying to make it to the top 15% to get the fat bonuses. That means small haul operations aren't nearly as profitable. The little guy in the Adder, Cobra, Asp or T-6 has to grind like mad even to get into a higher tier. But trading on system states pays off huge for whoever can find and deliver the cheapest commodity the fastest. From the Hauler up to the T9 a space trucker can make a profit proportional to the amount of cargo delivered. So, anybody from rookie starting out to the old pros can actually make money. A smart, efficient trader can make a killing by doing a little research in neighboring systems. And when the pool dries up because the system state is satisfied, there's always another system somewhere that will need space truckers to bring in cargo. As a bonus, with the new reputation/mission mechanics, traders can bring in even MORE credits by getting in good with the factions in the target system and flying missions while bringing back the needed commodities.

The multiplayer community benefits: (please note: this is not an open vs solo thread. Please take those discussions to one of the many existing threads.) A common complaint of ED is how empty it feels in open because everyone is so spread out. CG's fix that to a certain extent, but they are programmed by Frontier and exist only in one place for a predetermined period of time. By having searchable system states on the galmap to pull up wars, famines and plagues, players will have reasons to concentrate in systems. In open, where there are traders, pirates will appear. Where there are pirates, bounty hunters will appear. Where players appear, they run out of fuel and Fuel Rats will appear. In Open or Mobius, for those who just like seeing hollow squares on their radar just so the universe doesn't seem empty, it will greatly increase your chances of running into other CMDRs. Again, the fact that these system states are generated by the game based on the BGS means that these mini-CG's will rise and fall around the bubble based on the system states, in turn based on the actions of CMDRs in the game. Player factions in game might even go to war as they manipulate their system states and those of their rivals. Forget PowerPlay - BGS system flipping could really get down and dirty.

Finally, it's a cure for the common grind. It's an age-old argument in the game that it's only a grind if you make it one. I'd argue that the game mechanics have always lent themselves to grinding. I'm a big believer in making your own fun in the sandbox and for a long time believed the game was what you made of it. But after a year of playing missions that had no consequence or looking for the shortest back and forth trade route it gets old. There's only so much pretending one can do before you step back and realize you're just going through the motions of performing an activity rather than having fun with it. The new factions, persistent NPC's and their connection to the BGS have the potential to be more than just window dressing. They can provide a sense of personal investment, either by forming a bond with a faction/system to help them out (or even hurt them), or give CMDRs legitimate reasons to travel to other systems and use the trade route filters on the screens to see where there's money to be made, legitimately or not.

Combined with more intelligent NPC AI, the new missions and BGS are a huge step in the right direction for creating a dynamic, living universe. But they have to work. A lot of attention is being given, and rightfully so, to the NPC super weapon issues... But the inability to complete missions right now is just as important. Not being able to complete missions ruins CMDRs reputations. It costs money. It builds fines, and makes clean CMDRs wanted, not to mention wastes our time. It will make people not want to play the new missions, which in turn means the improved BGS won't be used to its full potential.

My biggest fear is that Frontier is going to concentrate on balancing the AI and fix the NPC superweapons, which again need to be fixed in a hurry - and then not address the missions and BGS until 2.2 or later because they're not as visible. But I honestly think that they are the twin engines which drive all other activity in the game but don't get the attention they deserve because they're not flashy enough.

TL;DR - the mission system and BGS are just as important to making ED fun as AI. And if you agree, please voice your opinion not just here but anywhere the discussion of "content" or "grind" come up, because BGS and the missions it spawn are a fantastic way to make procedurally generated content. Frontier, you've taken HUGE steps in the right direction working on the core of the game. Don't let all the potential wither on the vine by letting the issues linger.


I won't say TL; DR, as I did read enough to at least get the gist of what you were saying. My view is that 2.1 has made massive.....& I do mean *massive* improvements to the mission system. Compared to this time last year, I really do feel like I am playing an entirely new game. Yes there are still bugs, yes there are still mission templates that I feel are missing......but that doesn't change my overall feel regarding how they've nicely meshed together the missions, factions, system states & Background Sim.

I do suspect also that, now we've had this big overhaul, we will now see constant, iterative improvements to these linkages as they year progresses.....much as we did last year. Also note that Michael Brookes has indicated previously that he wants a major overhaul of Power Play & the Military component of the game......which almost certainly will need to be meshed in with the already existing changes to the Mission-Market-Faction-BGS framework we got in 2.1. I suspect, for instance, that there will be strong links between Faction Influence & Power control of certain systems-so that boosting the influence of a certain faction will improve the chances of a Power gaining or retaining control of that system. Likewise, I suspect that the BGS/System State is going to play a much bigger role in how easily a Power can gain or retain control of a system. Lastly, I suspect we shall also see Power specific Missions turning up as an adjunct to the current activities we can do for the Powers. This will all need to be meshed into the existing mechanics, meaning more opportunities for improvements to those mechanics.

My final point is that, when I pre-ordered this game back in July of 2014, I did so after reading as much background material as possible (Newsletters, Dev Updates etc), so I knew I was getting myself into a 10 year development cycle, & so would not be getting a feature complete game as of December 2014. So far, I am extremely impressed with the major strides FDev have made with the game in the last 18 months....
 
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The mission system and background simulation are vital to making the game enjoyable for everyone, even if you don't play them. But, like the NPC AI, they have to work, and in my opinion are just as important as the AI to fix for the game to succeed.

Ever since release, missions and the BGS have had bugs but the biggest problem is how static they were. Missions were generated at random instead of being tied to the state of the system, gated by pilot rank with confusing and illogical payouts. Doing missions to build influence with a faction or to help them flip systems sorta worked, but the economy of the galaxy was done in a fixed manner rather than what was actually being shipped to and from stations based on system state. Commodity prices and inventory were set arbitrarily rather than working with supply and demand. It was all basically a movie set: things looked great on the screen, but none of the props actually worked.

2.1 aimed to correct a lot of that. Factions in systems give out bigger and better missions based on your reputation with them, giving you a reason to work with them long-term and build up that reputation. Missions are based on the state of the system and faction, providing logical reasons for pilots to help them (important if you take any satisfaction from RP). System states now drive the economy, which in turn affect what the factions ask CMDRs to do for them. All of which is great if you play the BGS or the mission system for fun. As with any new feature the reworked missions and BGS have problems. So why is this important for players who don't run missions of play the BGS?

Here's why this is important for players who don't run missions or play the BGS: the new system states effectively create dynamic, miniature Community Goals wherever they pop up. They greatly increase the potential for profit, reputation gain, conflict (if that's your thing) and most importantly FUN. How?

Systems in famine will pay huge amounts for food. Systems in conflict need weapons. Systems in plague need medicines. Instead of randomly wandering the galaxy looking for profitiable A-B trade routes, there is a logical, reliable way to see where there is money to be made.

So, traders benefit. Regular trade CG's are less about making smart trades and more about volume. You're trying to make it to the top 15% to get the fat bonuses. That means small haul operations aren't nearly as profitable. The little guy in the Adder, Cobra, Asp or T-6 has to grind like mad even to get into a higher tier. But trading on system states pays off huge for whoever can find and deliver the cheapest commodity the fastest. From the Hauler up to the T9 a space trucker can make a profit proportional to the amount of cargo delivered. So, anybody from rookie starting out to the old pros can actually make money. A smart, efficient trader can make a killing by doing a little research in neighboring systems. And when the pool dries up because the system state is satisfied, there's always another system somewhere that will need space truckers to bring in cargo. As a bonus, with the new reputation/mission mechanics, traders can bring in even MORE credits by getting in good with the factions in the target system and flying missions while bringing back the needed commodities.

The multiplayer community benefits: (please note: this is not an open vs solo thread. Please take those discussions to one of the many existing threads.) A common complaint of ED is how empty it feels in open because everyone is so spread out. CG's fix that to a certain extent, but they are programmed by Frontier and exist only in one place for a predetermined period of time. By having searchable system states on the galmap to pull up wars, famines and plagues, players will have reasons to concentrate in systems. In open, where there are traders, pirates will appear. Where there are pirates, bounty hunters will appear. Where players appear, they run out of fuel and Fuel Rats will appear. In Open or Mobius, for those who just like seeing hollow squares on their radar just so the universe doesn't seem empty, it will greatly increase your chances of running into other CMDRs. Again, the fact that these system states are generated by the game based on the BGS means that these mini-CG's will rise and fall around the bubble based on the system states, in turn based on the actions of CMDRs in the game. Player factions in game might even go to war as they manipulate their system states and those of their rivals. Forget PowerPlay - BGS system flipping could really get down and dirty.

Finally, it's a cure for the common grind. It's an age-old argument in the game that it's only a grind if you make it one. I'd argue that the game mechanics have always lent themselves to grinding. I'm a big believer in making your own fun in the sandbox and for a long time believed the game was what you made of it. But after a year of playing missions that had no consequence or looking for the shortest back and forth trade route it gets old. There's only so much pretending one can do before you step back and realize you're just going through the motions of performing an activity rather than having fun with it. The new factions, persistent NPC's and their connection to the BGS have the potential to be more than just window dressing. They can provide a sense of personal investment, either by forming a bond with a faction/system to help them out (or even hurt them), or give CMDRs legitimate reasons to travel to other systems and use the trade route filters on the screens to see where there's money to be made, legitimately or not.

Combined with more intelligent NPC AI, the new missions and BGS are a huge step in the right direction for creating a dynamic, living universe. But they have to work. A lot of attention is being given, and rightfully so, to the NPC super weapon issues... But the inability to complete missions right now is just as important. Not being able to complete missions ruins CMDRs reputations. It costs money. It builds fines, and makes clean CMDRs wanted, not to mention wastes our time. It will make people not want to play the new missions, which in turn means the improved BGS won't be used to its full potential.

My biggest fear is that Frontier is going to concentrate on balancing the AI and fix the NPC superweapons, which again need to be fixed in a hurry - and then not address the missions and BGS until 2.2 or later because they're not as visible. But I honestly think that they are the twin engines which drive all other activity in the game but don't get the attention they deserve because they're not flashy enough.

TL;DR - the mission system and BGS are just as important to making ED fun as AI. And if you agree, please voice your opinion not just here but anywhere the discussion of "content" or "grind" come up, because BGS and the missions it spawn are a fantastic way to make procedurally generated content. Frontier, you've taken HUGE steps in the right direction working on the core of the game. Don't let all the potential wither on the vine by letting the issues linger.

Mission Critical Message Incoming

You are spot on I have enjoyed the new way the BGS and Missions have started to tie together long may it grow, short may the bugs remain

Had my own encounter with getting a mission whilst at a Nav Beacon too yesterday, more of this!

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=258430

Ever so more appealing as it came with a name and face of who I was working for

More things happening away from stations

Like being given instructions to collect weapons, and deliver them to the "seeking Weapons" rather than the stations themselves, by factions that don't have control of a station or are fighting the controlling faction of a system.
 
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Yes, actually, since 2.1 hit I've been noticing much more how missions are tied to your rep and influence, and I've actually started paying attention to the factions, because it's all laid out so nicely on the new Mission Board. I've chosen a 'home' system now and I'm working on raising my rep with everyone there, so that I get better and better missions and bigger payouts. It's actually kind of fun, which isn't something I could say about missions before. The missions themselves are still kinda meh for the most part, but at least when you're doing them you have a purpose. It's an improvement!
 
I have been taken with playing the BGS ever since the Lugh wars. I moved there pretty soon in my playing career. Lugh is a character out of Irish mythology, and I am a amateur student of that topic. So I moved my operations over there. A nice Fed system, all was great. Then those MoM guys came and stole it from me. All I had left to show for it was a ton of credits and a kitted Vulture. (Thanks MoM, lol Crimson State indeed.) From there I moved to another nice Fed system, but the name was lackluster. No hints because I could move back.

I do think more players would enjoy working with the BGS if and when they just got started. It's a different sort of progression. If your so inclined, like I am, you get a real feeling of ownership, and a compelling reason to log in. I have some Factions that attack me on site, clean or otherwise. They make me richer.

I also see the genesis of what Mr. Braben was talking about in that video. If you are one that accepts the idea of Elite being a game of constant development, like I am, you shouldn't take everything he said as set in stone. The frame work, and actual mechanism wasn't in place then, and what they are delivering moves and is represented in his pitch. If I had seen that video when it was new, I would have given him money, and I'd still be happy about that choice now.

I would edit that OP down and 'Spoiler' the details, and you could expect many more readers and more responses if you did. I mostly forget about the whole Repping thing, but you got a vote from me. If a thread like this were to be sustained, FD would have a great resource for getting an idea what we are seeing, and compare that to what they are expecting.


Huh? We all worked on that one! Crimson State, MoM, EIC, and Emperor's Grace....plus a few thousand of our closest friends and enemies! ;P

As far as the OP's topic, bugs are the bane of the BGS...and mission bugs are the largest culprit. It nearly killed our group when 2.0 released. Once they repaired the bugs (changed the 'improvements') things started moving along again. Major updates, particularly dealing with missions, but also crime and punishment, have strong effects on the BGS and how it responds to group play. It is truly frustrating, and the lack of visibility has always made this one of the more frustrating problems that anyone that plays the BGS has to deal with.

This, notwithstanding, it has always been my contention that this is what the game is truly about. (Many disagree...and I understand that, also!) The reason to 'do' was always meant to be players reps with local factions and the superpowers.

There was a fairly strong movement that kept beating the drum over the opacity of the black box...and how it hurt the game, people's enjoyment of it, and the amount of time it took to suss out how things worked. It is fantastic to see people learning about the BGS now, because they can see some level of affect their actions have on their standing and the standing of the local factions. It has always been this way...but without the look under the hood..no one would believe!

Well done FDev! Now get out those flyswatters and get things smoothed out!
 
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I won't say TL; DR, as I did read enough to at least get the gist of what you were saying. My view is that 2.1 has made massive.....& I do mean *massive* improvements to the mission system. Compared to this time last year, I really do feel like I am playing an entirely new game. Yes there are still bugs, yes there are still mission templates that I feel are missing......but that doesn't change my overall feel regarding how they've nicely meshed together the missions, factions, system states & Background Sim.

"Nicely meshed together..." You didn't get the gist of what I was saying at all. :) The problem is they aren't nicely meshed together, but they need to be. They look like they are on the surface, it seems to be the intention to get them to mesh, but because of their incomplete state and bugs, the mission system and BGS are not nicely meshed together.

Falling back on the "10 Year Plan" line and and that you knew you were buying an incomplete game is your prerogative and makes me think you dismissed my post as an attack on Frontier when it wasn't. Just to clarify, I too have been around since the Premium Beta and up until around the release of 1.3 was a cheerleader for the game. That's gone away with each successive release; CQC, then Ships, then Horizons because I thought Frontier were too busy adding additional, extraneous functionality to a game while neglecting the engine that makes the game go.

2.1 is the first real, effective update to Missions and the BGS in over a year and a half, and it could add a tremendous amount of fun to the game even for people who don't directly participate in running missions or playing the BGS. It could truly change the overall attitude people have toward the game in a positive way -- if it works. Frontier are the only ones who can make that happen. Giving them a 10 year pass on fixing the foundations of the game hasn't done anyone any good. (See the turmoil caused by fixing the NPC AI after eighteen months for another example.)
 
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