Missions to Remove Notoriety

[Ian Doncaster]

It is supposed to be a deterrent not something that easy to ignore.

Indeed. Frontier's original implementation in the 3.0 Beta was 1 hour per point of notoriety.

By popular player demand this was doubled for the live release.

It was only a few weeks after the live release, after the career criminals had adapted, that players realised that all they'd done is asked Frontier to make things way more inconvenient for themselves.

 

[aRJay]

That was my point, it's not game play to AFK overnight and wake up clean and clear vs someone who logs off with level 3 notoriety and starts the next day with level 3 notoriety. No you don't sit in a jail cell. You aren't restricted from playing other aspects, and base raiding and murder hoboing are alive and well (no pun intended) even with notoriety. So, like the imperial and federal ranking, when you get notoriety some missions should appear to protect some capital ship, deliver something, etc. As a side note, notoriety across the galaxy makes the game smaller. I like the concept of "get out of town until the heat cools" but not this Borg bubble idea where instantly everyone knows what you did on a remote planet.

I know it works. This is the point of the thread. There should be an in-game way to treat notoriety like a real thing instead of just a closed door that needs time to reset. Game aspects that encourage players to AFK should be rethought.

You're actually saying notoriety doesn't do anything that matters. That's even more reason to work it into the mission system.

As a player who doesn’t play missions by choice I suggest that the timer should be altered so that it doesn’t work if you are safely afk, for example ships can’t be docked or landed or At zero throttle so if you do try the afk overnight solution there is a good chance of a rebuy in the morning.

10 minutes per point for Solo play or not active at all on solo play, So if you accidentally shoot someone you did not mean to, You don't end up stuck for 2 hours waiting in a low-security station for the lame @** timer to count down so you can pay the stupid fine and continue playing. might as well uninstall and go play a better game, instead of waiting 2+ hours to pay some fine/bounty so you can keep playing....

Due to superior luck and ship outfitting I haven’t been notorious for ages however I still remember not staying in the station longer than necessary to curse my stupidity/carelessness before heading out to do something else for two hours. Obviously if you are in an extreme combat build your options are slightly limited but you could always head to a CNB or HazRES for some security free combat.

 

[Jmanis]

Indeed. Frontier's original implementation in the 3.0 Beta was 1 hour per point of notoriety.

By popular player demand this was doubled for the live release.

It was only a few weeks after the live release, after the career criminals had adapted, that players realised that all they'd done is asked Frontier to make things way more inconvenient for themselves.

Yeh... as I wrote 5 years ago (caveat: I might've changed feelings on some things, but the vibe holds)... the current C&P implementation is not a deterrent or even a punishment for criminals who know how to stay clean or simply never face the consequences of their actions. The only people it does punish are those not familiar with the C&P system, or otherwise "Accidental" criminals.

Tangentially... Notoriety really needs to be major-power jurisdictional (especially while Notoriety prevents paying fines, which as mentioned shouldn't be a thing). My biggest frustration is when I spend a good amount of time in a Federal jurisdiction whacking their security and military forces about and racking up 10 notoriety, only to return to imperial space, forget to request docking and cop a 200cr obstruction fine in Imperial space, only to have to wait hours to pay that off due to my Federal crimes. It's completely non-sensical. But again... paying fines shouldn't even be blocked by notoriety in the first place.

 

[Schmack]

Missions imo, aren't really the answer for "reducing notoriety".

<snip>

You have some great ideas. I'd prefer any/all of that vs what we have now. Like I said, I usually run pretty high notoriety and I was thinking after I started playing Odyssey that there's no reason to not kill everyone other than self imposed RP reasons. The fact murdering random settlement folks increases my mercenary rank while notoriety does nothing to affect anything that matters (once you're flush with credits) says the game invites it. So make notoriety matter somehow, make it part of the game. Same with crime. Why has crime been shunned for rewards when a large portion of the offerings in the game are illegal activities? It feels like the enticement is to ruin your 0 notoriety for X amount of materials or credits when it should be "you're a notorious killer, you can't get any legal missions so go kill these folks".

 

[Jack Winter]

I agree that notoriety shouldn't impede paying fines! I don't think it does anything to prevent ganking, IMO the proper solution to avoid ganking is to not play in the PvP mode (open), to learn how to get away after a player interdiction, or to get good at PvP.

I'd tend to think that removing notoriety would only serve to make the game more shallow, as it is I need to plan my crimes to make sure that being wanted/hostile/notorious doesn't impede my BGS playing. But on the other hand maybe removing it would ease the burden on the poor anarchy settlements as players would probably be more open to take illegal missions and to trash lawful settlements, instead of just hitting anarchy settlements. In fact it seems daft that I can can go full metal jacket on an anarchy settlement without any repercussions at all... At the very least I ought to lose rep with the attacked faction.

I'd also agree that notoriety shouldn't just count down idling in the game, that's nearly cheesing the game but unfortunately what we have.

But I would definitely be for redoing the crime and punishment and to flesh out the criminal game play.

AFAIK, making a mistake and killing someone doesn't lead to notoriety, you'd normally (always?) have to kill a few to earn a notoriety point.

 

[Jmanis]

AFAIK, making a mistake and killing someone probably doesn't lead to notoriety, you'd normally (always?) have to kill a few to earn a notoriety point.

A single illegal ship kill results in notoriety... I've never really worked out what the case is for on-foot kills.

Now, destroying a ship requires a certain measure of intent or negligence, and rarely happens unintentionally.

But yeah, as mentioned and as you highlight, the issue comes about not from becoming notorious from that crime, but rather post-Odyssey if you then accrue a simple fine in a completely unrelated jurisdiction, you now can't pay that off.

Pre-Odyssey that was not the case and was way more sensical... become wanted and notorious in a jurisdiction, yeah that's a problem. Commit minor, nonviolent misdemeanours in a different jurisdiction, they're happy to let you off. But commit a violent crime (e.g assault), which is the one players care most about... even if it's one that doesn't attract notoriety, and that means you're now tarred with the same brush of being notorious and wanted, and therefore unable to clear your name which makes sense.

The thing I've always come back to is that it should be...

• If you want embrace a lawful playstyle, you aim to stay clean, clearing your name of a single bounty-level offence such as assault or a single murder should have a punitive measure (penalty for messing up) but ultimately easily resolved.
• If you want to embrace covert criminality (e.g smuggling), you aim to stay clean, but that one time you get caught should be disastrous. If that were reflected in the current game, that would look like gaining notoriety but no bounty for succeeding in that activity. Then when you do fail and get a bounty[1], your notoriety 10 means you're stuck laying low for a while and finding a different area to roam.
• If you want to embrace overt criminality, you should aim to remain wanted and notorious within the jurisdictions you target. Outside those jurisdictions you're "just another lawful player"... but clearing your name in the jurisdictions you're wanted should not only be painful and costly, but also detrimental to your career as an overt criminal in those areas. The "Notorious Bane of Federal Trade Lanes" is surely the right person for an Imperial agent to anonymously commission to enter Federal territory and "strike fear into the enemy" compared to some nobody, and should be rewarded as such. You just can't punish crime without it being incentivised in the first place.

[1] Incidentally, being caught smuggling to the tune of a 1m credit penalty or higher should actually be a bounty-level offence, not just a fine.

 

[Jack Winter]

A single illegal ship kill results in notoriety... I've never really worked out what the case is for on-foot kills.

My bad, I was thinking about on foot kills as that's what I've been doing lately.

 

[Reggit]

AFAIK, making a mistake and killing someone doesn't lead to notoriety, you'd normally (always?) have to kill a few to earn a notoriety point.

A single illegal ship kill results in notoriety... I've never really worked out what the case is for on-foot kills.

In my experience, 1 clean kill = 1 point of notoriety.
There are a couple of exceptions for space based missions, but not many for on-foot stuff.

I quite like the idea of notoriety, but it really does infuriate me when I'm attempting to do (legal) missions for the BGS...but I have to stop to get rid of those nasty interstellar bounties!
(Specifically, the pirate kill missions that randomly ask you to scan a data port - boom - interstellar bounty - even if your hunting a pirate!)

 

[Miscellaneous]

oh by the way you can substitute a healthy notoriety for good morale fiber in many recipes

 

[Galactic Fork]

Notoriety is a decent idea for minimizing ganking/griefing etc. It doesn't seem to work well with missions though. I'd like to see something akin to federal or imperial missions to help remove notoriety. Example would be to restore power for settlements, retrieve escape pods, kill thargoids, etc. I know you'll lose notoriety anyhow if you do these things, but it doesn't feel like it's part of the game world that notoriety just magically goes away if I leave my ship idling on a pad at my carrier overnight vs community service or something along those lines. It would at least give some incentive to take illegal missions (other than the materials, because no one takes these for the paltry financial offerings) if you knew that you could take a risk if you had the ability to run an extra community or support mission or two in order to clear the air with the authorities.

Personally I don't mind notoriety, I run at 6 most of the time because it's more fun for me to not care about it and do whatever I want than to comb the boards for legal missions, or to farm anarchy stations. I just want an option to do other things to affect it besides "go do something else like explore plants" Yeah, no thanks.

I've put up a couple similar suggestions like this before. For example, paying some of your reputation with a faction to bring down your notoriety. The more points, the more reputation lost. The idea is that you got someone to pull some strings to get the heat off. So you take a reputation hit.

From a roleplay angle, this idea is basically" Hey, I'll get the heat off you, but you gotta do me a favor first"

I'd like it more if it was something you had to unlock with a faction, so you couldn't just do it anywhere. You should earn the chance.

 

[Schmack]

I've not tested it but does notoriety in the bubble exist instantly in Colonia as well? you'd not know unless you were in both places at once, but does it travel with you that far?

 

[BackToTheMud]

Dude, notoriety does absolutely nothing to discourage ganking/greifing, and in pve it is only an annoyance as it works now.

With that in mind, having to do missions to remove it would be an improvment on the current system.

 

[Screemonster]

Notoriety is a decent idea for minimizing ganking/griefing etc. It doesn't seem to work well with missions though.

The main problem with notoriety as applied to missions is that it was intended to discourage unnecessary kills - and to this end, mission targets are exempt from notoriety.

Take an assassination mission - you won't get notoriety for killing your target, even if you incur a bounty. This is as intended. You will get notoriety for any ships you blow up along the way that aren't mission targets, such as if you decide to clear out the target's escort ships, which is slightly eh but honestly was never as effective as just blowing away the target and getting out of dodge.

The problem is that since odyssey launched there are now situations where you'll find a mission requires you to blast a guy but they're not flagged as mission targets.

The really super duper massive giant problem is that settlement massacre missions don't flag the base personnel as mission targets, meaning you have to blast something in the region of 20 people and all of them incur notoriety. Notably, simple "massacre" missions, along with assassinations, do mark the targets, meaning no notoriety for killing them.

Likewise, sabotage missions or heists? Guy hanging around near the mission objective who just won't sod off for three minutes and let you do your thing? He's not a mission target, so killing him incurs notoriety.

The easiest solution that I can think of would be to simply negate notoriety increases if the player has an illegal mission at the settlement. You'd still incur bounties and lose rep though, so at least there's a reason not to blast everyone.

 

[Jmanis]

Likewise, sabotage missions or heists? Guy hanging around near the mission objective who just won't sod off for three minutes and let you do your thing? He's not a mission target, so killing him incurs notoriety.

I just do it in front of them and dance around while things tick along. It's quite fun!

The really super duper massive giant problem is that settlement massacre missions don't flag the base personnel as mission targets, meaning you have to blast something in the region of 20 people and all of them incur notoriety. Notably, simple "massacre" missions, along with assassinations, do mark the targets, meaning no notoriety for killing them.

... but yeah... this. C&P is such a goddamn mess after Odyssey, and nothing was documented about the changes, so it's anybodies guess as to if it's "Bug or feature". To just name a couple that stand out:

• Killing mission targets for settlement massacres incurs notoriety
• Fines can't be paid when notorious
• Can't pay off fines, or bounties (at IF) if the faction is present in the system.

None of these were ever documented or explained, so god knows if they're intentional

 

[Screemonster]

I just do it in front of them and dance around while things tick along. It's quite fun!


... but yeah... this. C&P is such a goddamn mess after Odyssey, and nothing was documented about the changes, so it's anybodies guess as to if it's "Bug or feature". To just name a couple that stand out:

• Killing mission targets for settlement massacres incurs notoriety
• Fines can't be paid when notorious
• Can't pay off fines, or bounties (at IF) if the faction is present in the system.

None of these were ever documented or explained, so god knows if they're intentional

you can add "paying off superpower bounties is subject to visual bugs that require a relog to get rid of, and the internal counter that determines when you should incur one doesn't get reset when you do so so any crime against a superpower no matter how small will incur a superpower bounty after you clear them"

have tried reporting them on the tracker, but we all know how useless the tracker is.

 

[Schmack]

I currently have a notoriety level of 7. I am cool with just going after the target, be it the assassination target, the disabling of the production or shutdown of power. It's when these talkers start with the endless talking "back up, why do you have to be so close" when they walked up on me, or "what are you doing here, can I help you?" and so forth. Once they annoy me I shoot them in the face. I deserve the notoriety. I just want it to trigger something other than horizons level bounty hunters. Why not some on foot bounty hunters like Cad Bane? Could you imagine you're wiping out a settlement then suddenly a ship lands and out comes 4 of these terrors with engineered weapons and skills that make it a struggle to stay alive and get back to your ship? That would be interesting and worth the notoriety. If not then something to reroute me into a set of missions. Locking me out of things without offering any gameplay is just kindergarten level timeout for the sake of appeasing carebears. NPCs don't care if you murder them.

 

[Jmanis]

Locking me out of things without offering any gameplay is just kindergarten level timeout for the sake of appeasing carebears. NPCs don't care if you murder them.

Yeeeah. That's why I want Criminal Mission boards, accessible when you access stations via anonymity protocols.

It's crazy that the eventual outcome of "Friendly" activity in support of a faction culminates in higher rewards and access to more activity, meanwhile the eventual outcome of "antagonistic" activity against a particular faction is the game, essentially, going "Oh oops, you're not allowed to do that anymore"

EDIT: Especially when it's the "friendly" activity that is arguably way more damaging than the antagonistic activity.

 

[Riverside]

Yeeeah. That's why I want Criminal Mission boards, accessible when you access stations via anonymity protocols.

It's crazy that the eventual outcome of "Friendly" activity in support of a faction culminates in higher rewards and access to more activity, meanwhile the eventual outcome of "antagonistic" activity against a particular faction is the game, essentially, going "Oh oops, you're not allowed to do that anymore"

EDIT: Especially when it's the "friendly" activity that is arguably way more damaging than the antagonistic activity.

All factions are baddies, some of them have cool names

 

[Schmack]

All factions are baddies, some of them have cool names

This is my take as well. Even if I am allied with a faction I won't hesitate to waste the settlement if someone pops off smart like. My DBX kitted as a research vessel is named "Kill'em All". I often stop while fleeing a massacre to scan some cool flora.

 

[Jmanis]

All factions are baddies, some of them have cool names

This is my take as well. Even if I am allied with a faction I won't hesitate to waste the settlement if someone pops off smart like. My DBX kitted as a research vessel is named "Kill'em All". I often stop while fleeing a massacre to scan some cool flora.

All the more reason to not distinguish criminal and non-criminal activities for the purposes of reward, in the game design sense

Here's a thought; how about we reflect the negative impact "Lawful" actions have on other factions (through lost influence) on a commander's reputation with that faction.

Yeah, I ran dozens of massacre pirate missions and trading for a single faction and they're now in Expansion and in control of everything, but every other faction losing out hates my guts for it.