Module Idea: Compartment Dividers

Just an idea I had for a new module. This post is a bit long, hopefully you will forgive me. I have made more than a few builds where some of the internal compartments were not the proper size for some of the modules I was fitting (i.e. modules with restricted sizes such as discovery scanners, limpets, interdictors, etc...) and I was left with some unused space in my ship. This doesn't really make any sense to me, considering that free space is at a premium in ships. It would make sense if we could divide the compartment into 2 or more smaller compartments to use this extra space.

First off, I don't want to have compartment dividers work purely on actual compartment volume, as this would create some serious game balance issues. Each class of module is twice the size of the same module of a class lower. For example a class 6 shield generator is the size and mass of two class 5 shield generators put together. This means that if I were to put a class 5 limpet controller in a size 6 compartment, there would be enough room left over in that compartment to put a second class 5 limpet controller in it (or a comparable module, like a 32T cargo rack full of limpets). Taken to the extreme, this would mean that a size 8 slot contains enough space to fit 128 class 1 limpet controllers, which would be hilariously impractical, and, if they were all used at the same time, could probably cause some serious framerate issues and/or crash the game.

Instead, I propose that compartment dividers divide the compartment into smaller compartments with the sum of the compartment sizes equalling that of the original compartment. For example, a size 6 compartment could be divided into 2 slots in 3 ways: 5+1, 4+2, or 3+3. I feel that this would allow for more options with outfitting without being completely broken. This would be especially noticeable on smaller ships or ships with fewer compartments, and should offer more choice to players on whether they want to use a bigger ship for a task or if they want to use a smaller ship that can do the same thing, with some limitations.

In order to divide a compartment, players would need to fit a compartment divider to an optional internal slot. Dividers should not be compatible with military or commerce slots. Once a divider has been fitted, they can then fit modules into the slots of the divider (similar to SRVs and SLFs). The number of the divided compartments would be determined by the grade of divider, with C having 2 slots, B having 3 slots and A having the maximum 4 slots.

By now, some of you might be asking, "What prevents a player from stacking multiple modules of the same type into divided compartments to massively improve effectiveness?" The answer to this is that it would not be in their best interest to do so. Most module types improve exponentially with class or are limited to one per ship. No pilot in their right mind would divide a class 6 compartment into a pair of class 3 cargo racks. The only exceptions to this are HRPs, MRPs, and limpet controllers.
For HRPs and MRPs, higher classes of modules are inferior IN ALL RESPECTS to a collection of lower class modules. Fortunately, putting a divider between a pair of MRPs or HRPs makes absolutely no sense, so it would make sense if MRPs and HRPs were restricted from divided compartments.
For limpet controllers, it is a bit more complicated. Each class of limpet controller has a higher limpet count, a longer range and a lower power draw per limpet. However, having 5 class 1 controllers will give you more limpets than a single class 5 controller. A solution to this would be to reduce the total class of the divided slots by one for each additional slot after the first 2. This would mean that you could divide a size 6 into 5+1, 4+2, 3+3 as well as 2+2+1, 3+1+1, and 1+1+1+1. So, if you wanted to put limpet controllers into a class 6 slot, you could use a 5+1, 3+3, 3+1+1, or 1+1+1+1. While using a 1+1+1+1 is cheaper than a 5+1, it would use ~25% more power, have less range, and may have less limpets depending on the type of controller. If anything, a 3+3 would be the best option, as it would draw the least amount of energy, be reasonably cheap, and still have a decent range.

This is just an idea I had, everything here is just a suggestion. It seems like a few people might have similar ideas, but I haven't read their posts and don't know how or on what scale they want to see them implemented. Any feedback/suggestions are welcome!

Edit: I looked at a few other suggestions for things like this. Doesn't look like this will be happening soon. I'm still interested to hear what people think though!

Edit 2: Going by what people are saying, it looks like some people think that this would apply to ALL types of slots. This is not what I had in mind, as this would be even harder to balance and/or be completely useless. Dividers would be for optional modules only.
 
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Just an idea I had for a new module. This post is a bit long, hopefully you will forgive me. I have made more than a few builds where some of the internal compartments were not the proper size for some of the modules I was fitting (i.e. modules with restricted sizes such as discovery scanners, limpets, interdictors, etc...) and I was left with some unused space in my ship. This doesn't really make any sense to me, considering that free space is at a premium in ships. It would make sense if we could divide the compartment into 2 or more smaller compartments to use this extra space.

This proposition has been done to death, every few weeks/months another one crops up. You are right it won't be happening soon, it's likely it won't be happening ever. FDEV have enough trouble balancing ships as it is, having a method to divide compartments would throw all those efforts out the door. There's a reason some ships are great exploring, some are great for combat and some trade, some are great at no single thing but useful at all three and a lot of it's to do with the compartment fit out. Change that and suddenly everything changes, the balance is all shot to pieces.

I don't have an issue with it the way it is personally, it gives me a reason to have a number of ships, otherwise I would only have one.
 
Thanks for the reply. I understand where you are coming from, and I agree with what you said.

That won't stop me from dreaming of the day I can put an ADS and DSS in the same slot on my 'conda though.
 
This proposition has been done to death, every few weeks/months another one crops up. You are right it won't be happening soon, it's likely it won't be happening ever. FDEV have enough trouble balancing ships as it is, having a method to divide compartments would throw all those efforts out the door. There's a reason some ships are great exploring, some are great for combat and some trade, some are great at no single thing but useful at all three and a lot of it's to do with the compartment fit out. Change that and suddenly everything changes, the balance is all shot to pieces.

I don't have an issue with it the way it is personally, it gives me a reason to have a number of ships, otherwise I would only have one.

You know, if they actually *implemented* the ability to move the internals around it would make the amount of "balancing" they have to do a lot less intensive. They could then strictly focus on everything else, instead of constantly shifting internals around to satisfy groups of people. Just sayin...

I'm a firm believer that where there's smoke, there's fire. There's a good reason why threads keep popping up on it... because it's a real issue.
 
+1 rep to the OP for a very well structured and eloquently presented suggestion. I'm in agreement that there is a need for partitioning off optional modules, an alternative way around it would be creating new module type "electronics rack" which would offer us 75% of the module slots capacity for electronics things. IE: a class 3 slot can hold 8T of cargo, 4x what a class one can, so it could hold 4 class one modules minus the 25% penalty leaving 3 class one module slots in the class 3 electronics rack allowing explorers to bang a Advanced Discovery Scanner and a Detailed Surface Scanner and a docking computer into a class 3 slot by using an electronics rack.
 
Thing is, if you rule out HRPs and MRPs, and seriously restrict Limpets, then there aren't that many use cases where the extra slot is more valuable in the first place:
- traders: definitely not
- combat: you've ruled out the obvious small-slot combat modules, and most combat ships have some small internal the interdictor can go in anyway.
- mining: marginal improvement on limpets on big ships where you could split a 6 into two 3s to get an extra limpet over putting a size 5 controller in.
- exploration: ah, here we go: lots of use for tiny modules.

Since explorers get the benefit of the only large module they really need (fuel scoop) being massless, not being able to carry literally every exploration-relevant module at once in a small ship is about the only outfitting decision that they have - and that can be bypassed by either using a 6-internal ship and relying on repair rats if you do take serious hull damage, or just using an 8-internal ship in the first place.

(SRV: 2; Scanners: 1+1; AFMU: 1; Repair controller+limpet bay 1+1; Shields 3; Scoop: largest possible) - with internal splitting you could fit all of that into a Cobra III and *still* have a size 4 internal to spare to carry two or three extra modules!
 
Yeah, great idea !

The balance ship is already a crap ... why bother anymore ?

If Frontier keeps adding new module (which I perfectly agree) without thinking to the module requirement and option ... we will see this topic every weeks or days... it's so logical that I can't understand why Frontier didn't fix this problem yet. (looking at you...alll limpet modules that require a cargo rack in addition to be used ... OMG so logical)

Can you remember me why defense point don't require cargo rack for the ammunition ? Oh yes...the module includes the storage...

My FAS has as much as module than my clipper (thx to Military slots). Is this normal regarding the "balance" in place ?
 
You had me at "Compartment Dividers"

And just because I've heard many propose this before, it's still a good idea - thanks for posting it!
 
What I'd really like to see is some Dev discussion here- we all know it's a recurring issue... so can we get word either way that it's in the works or on the to do list?

As I said before- addressing it will make "balancing" other core ship functions a lot less intensive. Ships will get "X" amount of module space, and can divide them up accordingly within the sizes with compartmentalization, rather than shoehorning smaller modules into bigger ones "just cause".
 
Thing is, if you rule out HRPs and MRPs, and seriously restrict Limpets, then there aren't that many use cases where the extra slot is more valuable in the first place:
- traders: definitely not
- combat: you've ruled out the obvious small-slot combat modules, and most combat ships have some small internal the interdictor can go in anyway.
- mining: marginal improvement on limpets on big ships where you could split a 6 into two 3s to get an extra limpet over putting a size 5 controller in.
- exploration: ah, here we go: lots of use for tiny modules.

Since explorers get the benefit of the only large module they really need (fuel scoop) being massless, not being able to carry literally every exploration-relevant module at once in a small ship is about the only outfitting decision that they have - and that can be bypassed by either using a 6-internal ship and relying on repair rats if you do take serious hull damage, or just using an 8-internal ship in the first place.

(SRV: 2; Scanners: 1+1; AFMU: 1; Repair controller+limpet bay 1+1; Shields 3; Scoop: largest possible) - with internal splitting you could fit all of that into a Cobra III and *still* have a size 4 internal to spare to carry two or three extra modules!

My intention with this was to reduce the amount of wasted space in ships. The restrictions for HRPs and MRPs were to prevent this from being used to make larger HRPs and MRPs irrelevant. I feel that every module should have a purpose in the game, so making anything other than 1D HRPs and MRPs useless wasn't something I wanted to do. The way compartment dividing is done could be changed to be more friendly to limpet controllers, but I felt that this could have had the same impact as the HRPs and MRPs. Maybe something like this could be implemented after the game mechanics are overhauled.

Anyways, thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it!
 
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+1 rep to the OP for a very well structured and eloquently presented suggestion. I'm in agreement that there is a need for partitioning off optional modules, an alternative way around it would be creating new module type "electronics rack" which would offer us 75% of the module slots capacity for electronics things. IE: a class 3 slot can hold 8T of cargo, 4x what a class one can, so it could hold 4 class one modules minus the 25% penalty leaving 3 class one module slots in the class 3 electronics rack allowing explorers to bang a Advanced Discovery Scanner and a Detailed Surface Scanner and a docking computer into a class 3 slot by using an electronics rack.

For what the compartment dividers would most likely be used for, you probably could call them electronics racks. However, I don't really want to pidgeon hole this idea right now, as I'm sure players would find a good way to use this that doesn't solely involve electronics.
 
If you are going this route then just make the ship with one large compartment. Example the Python could have a 285 tons of cargo space and class 5 military slot. The ship would come with 11 dividers and if a pilot needed more it would take 1 or more tons of space to fit each divider. A little rebalance would be needed but ships would be very personal that way. You would still need to restrict max sizes of components I assume but it would be fun to outfit a ship in this manner.

Caliber_az
 
If you are going this route then just make the ship with one large compartment. Example the Python could have a 285 tons of cargo space and class 5 military slot. The ship would come with 11 dividers and if a pilot needed more it would take 1 or more tons of space to fit each divider. A little rebalance would be needed but ships would be very personal that way. You would still need to restrict max sizes of components I assume but it would be fun to outfit a ship in this manner.

Caliber_az

This is a lot like how outfitting worked back in Frontier; Your ship would get X tons of free space, and you could mount any equipment you wanted, then fill the rest with fuel and cargo. The system worked well, but I don't think it would work in ED, at least, not without some serious tinkering and/or without completely invalidating every current build. See the example I gave about putting 128 limpet controllers in a size 8 slot. Not to mention that this would require implementing an entirely new system and completely scrapping the current one.
 
Not going too deep into this, however....

Certain ships have "Military Slots", ok... ships that don't have that can have a "dividable" slot. a single slot specific to that ship that can be divided into specific non-military roles, perhaps capping out at a select size, Say 3 or 4 on larger ships. So, you can use it for its full size, or cut it in pieces as suggested above. Again, they can control what ships get these special slot solutions. Gives a little flexibility, but still keep the reigns in how it gets used. This also helps explorers, traders, or other 'specialized' builds in the same way combat ships get.

As a final note, the 'type' of equipment is restricted- say, "computer only" for surface/space scanners, dockers, limpet controllers. No shields/SCB/[hull/module]reinforcements/interdiction thingies.

This lets specialized non-military craft BE specialized non-military craft. Military ships get an extra slot, why not other roles?

my 0.00002 cents on an idea that is likely D.o.A. [noob]
 
The best way to do this it to make the divider take up 1 slot. So you have a size 6 compartment, you put a divider in and it turns into a 3+2 slot.
I would be very happy on my DBX to turn one of the size 3's in to 2 size 1's as an example. It wouldn't make it overpowered it would just give you a bit of flexibility. It wouldn't be good for HRP's/MRP's or SCB's as I think a size 6 is better then a size 3 and 2 combined.

So having a divider take up a slot would keep all the balancing factors, but give people some flexibility on loadout. For instance those without any size 1 compartments don't need to waste two size 3 compartments for size 1 modules as an example.
 
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It still can go horribly wrong. There are some modules which take stackable engineer effects which are not (very) size-dependant - and making these effectively doubled is the recipe of trouble.
 
I have seen many discussions about stacking functions in compartments and I do also very much like the idea. My thought was to see engineers for 'specials' like Detail Surface Scanner and the infinite range scanner as one unit for explorers or a combined survey/mining limpet control unit for miners. ..
However, what if someone stacks shield boosters in one compartment? 4 type 1 shield boosters or even 2 x 2? ( pardon me for not having the specs in front of me ) .. it seems that this could unbalance a combat situation.
Especially if an NPC is configured for pirate mode, all you could do is run (which is what I do most often) from a ship that has constantly replenishing shields and good heat management.

Regards,
Nevian0225
 
I have seen many discussions about stacking functions in compartments and I do also very much like the idea. My thought was to see engineers for 'specials' like Detail Surface Scanner and the infinite range scanner as one unit for explorers or a combined survey/mining limpet control unit for miners. ..
However, what if someone stacks shield boosters in one compartment? 4 type 1 shield boosters or even 2 x 2? ( pardon me for not having the specs in front of me ) .. it seems that this could unbalance a combat situation.
Especially if an NPC is configured for pirate mode, all you could do is run (which is what I do most often) from a ship that has constantly replenishing shields and good heat management.

Regards,
Nevian0225

This is exactly what I meant earlier about balance. Right now the number of X (where X is a particular module) you can have in a ship is naturally limited by the compartments available. Once you start dividing compartments X is only limited by the number of compartment divisions you can have. To counter this FDEV would have to start limiting the number of X any one ship can have, so now they have another thing to balance against offensive and defensive weapons. Either that or you start restricting the type of modules a slot can take, it all becomes rather messy.
 
A balanced method of handling it that I had though of in the past would be to not make the module a trivial thing to add to a ship like a cargo rack.

The first thing I would do would be to make the smallest one be size 3 and give you 2 size 1 compartments, a size 4 would give you 2 size 2 and so forth. in the end, you end up sacrificing a little bit of space to operate your multiple modules.
Additionally, it should have added weight and power draw.
-Adding compartments to a ship should add weight (I never understood why a cargo rack, when empty didn't add more weight to a ship than not having the compartment in the first place).
-Power has to be routed to these new compartments and no power system is ever 100% efficient so give them a low but meaningful power draw.

You can also limit the type of module can go into it (we know the ability exists based on the military compartments) so that you can't take a class 7, and put a class 5 hangar and class 5 srv bay.

In essence, make it useful enough for someone who feels like they need it to maybe use one, but make it a choice that must be made and not something that is an automatic as soon as you want to use small modules on your ships
 
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