More flexible ranks system

[elcfart]

Hello.

Since ranks system have fixed tier values it is so stiff that it is inevitable to have many "elite" cmdr's around. Sometimes elite rank is so easy to gain (like exploration) and don't gives any challenge that it means nothing in ED universum. I would like to present more flexible ranks system. Game devs team have acces to different statistics for all accounts so instead of fixed values we can grant ranks based on true ranking of players where only the small % would have "elite" rank. Becouse sorting out thousands of values for each rank can be demanding task it can be done once per week between cycles and then new ranks will be granted.
Such flexible system will be more challenging and will motivate to put more effort in it (if You want to be elite all the time - as in real world). Right now it gives fun only for new players for about few weeks.

In presented example for each 5k of accounts that was active in last let's say 4 cycles (steam data) there will be only 100 (2%) with granted elite rank. In presented examples I've used multiplier of 1.404019 from this 2% or if we want it be more agressive we can take 1% for elite rank (50 best cmdr's for each 5k active accounts) we can use multiplier of 1.570192

I know that for most of cmdr's, this could be a bad idea because probably You will lose your "hardly gained" elite rank, but in longer term it should be better solution for whole ED universum - elite rank should be more elite than standard.

Fly (not) safe cmdr's xD

 

[MK Regular]

I'm just going to point out that Felicity Farseer (one of the very first engineer unlocks) requires you to have an exploration rank of Scout. Let's say a player spends months exploring and returns to the bubble to find that they have reached the top 48% in the criteria for exploration ranks, unlocked the rank of scout, and received an invite from Farseer. What would happen if the player falls bellow the rank of scout before they manage to unlock Farseer? What happens if they unlock Farseer and then drop bellow the rank of scout? Considering that Farseer is one of the few engineers that every player uses (or will use), I don't think it would be wise to block half of the playerbase from using her.

Note that this does not take the rank requirements for Ram Tah (Surveyor, top 33%), Broo Tarquin (Competent, top 33%), Didi Vatermann (Merchant, top 22%) or Lori Jameson (Dangerous, top 9%) into account.

 

[elcfart]

So maybe those requirements should be changed for something else (like in exploration to sell 100 systems data or lowered in tier req.)
As I wrote earlier, system can be more or less aggressive but more flexibility will give more fun. Maybe in terms of engineers a required ranks should be counted as gained once not as constant condition. Also as I wrote, it can be calculated and refreshed once per week with cycle change which gives a player many time for taking desired actions which requires rank progress.

Example of less agressive system - should be more friendly for newcomers or less capable players or with less time for play)
Used formula:
Tier1 = log10(2) - log10(1)
Tier2 = log10(3) - log10(2)
and so forth

 

[metatheurgist]

Nope.

 

[elcfart]

Very substantial opinion (nope, because nope).
Also in term of engineers: There is no need of using engineers to have fun with this game, it is not a standard MMO with only few rightful builds for most of actions that player can do. You can do whatever You want with whatever build You want. For example there is no need to have 50+ Ly jump to go for exploration - I have only 34 Ly jump in my Asp with 1 grade engineering without Guradian modules and I can make whole rank to elite in couple of weeks without big effort - it's easy and not challenging = boring

 

[varonica]

Of course that would lock out 99% of the player base from Shinrarta Dezhra and Founders World.

it's easy and not challenging = boring

Sure, if you play the game with the sole intention of getting elite rank, many of us don't.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I can make whole rank to elite in couple of weeks without big effort - it's easy and not challenging = boring

Gaining an Elite rank has always been a matter of time rather than skill - perhaps ironically not an Elitist approach.

 

[elcfart]

Of course that would lock out 99% of the player base from Shinrarta Dezhra and Founders World.

Requirements can be changed or stay as fixed values as it is now, this is not an obstacle.

Sure, if you play the game with the sole intention of getting elite rank, many of us don't.

I'm not because it is not challenging and right now means nothing. If there would be more than 50% of cmdr's flying with elite rank (it is only matter of time) how You will describe it? as "elite" or maybe "standard"?

Maybe the best approach will be with fixed values for Tiers 1-3 (for newcomers) and % ranking for Tiers 4-9

Gaining an Elite rank has always been a matter of time rather than skill - perhaps ironically not an Elitist approach.

With 4 days trip about 500-600 Ly from Sol I have gained Tier8 rank with additional 29% - pfff, I need only 2,5 more similar trips to be an "elite explorer" in approx. next 10 days of playing!? - I think it would be even less.
No skill, no challenge, no effort and no time consuming = no meaning.

Another less agressive examples:
5% elite with 1.190893 multiplier and 7% elite with 1,112027 multiplier.

 

[varonica]

With 4 days trip about 500-600 Ly from Sol I have gained Tier8 rank with additional 29% - pfff, I need only 2,5 more similar trips to be an "elite explorer" in approx. next 10 days of playing!? - I think it would be even less.
No skill, no challenge, no effort and no time consuming = no meaning.

Sorry, thought I had already done that, your entire issue is that you are measuring yourself against a standard that is and will always remain entirely meaningless. I spent most of a year getting my Elite Explorer rank simply because I didn't really see it as a target. Yes if you use it as a target then it can be achieved pretty quickly, just as getting a Conda can be achieved pretty quickly if you set it as a target. I don't have a Conda, it's not a target for me. I also don't have Elite rank in trading, I don't have Elite rank in Combat, I don't have any titles or ranks with any powers at all, these are not things I aspire to, I set my own targets.

Requirements can be changed or stay as fixed values as it is now, this is not an obstacle.

There's an entire lore involved in accessing Shinrarta Dezhra, only Elite pilots of the Pilots Federation get access, this is not a requirement that can be changed because it would render half the game lore senseless. If you aren't Elite you don't get in, as simple as that.

You can desire all you want to have the rank of Elite made into a target you have to continuously play to maintain, but lore wise and for most players it would just be pointless and unhelpful. Casual players, for instance, may never get access.

 

[William H. Bonney]

I just don't see the need for this, i like pie charts as much as the next person, but the development team have many other things to fix.

 

[elcfart]

Ok, I see your point, my bad. Lore is lore. Rank isn't my objective, I just see a lot of potential wasted there.

 

[Bloodsign]

Gaining an Elite rank has always been a matter of time rather than skill - perhaps ironically not an Elitist approach.

Except possibly combat, you have to kill so many ships you eventually pick up at least functional combat skills by sheer repetition.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Except possibly combat, you have to kill so many ships you eventually pick up at least functional combat skills by sheer repetition.

I'd question the "have to" there - as combat is entirely avoidable (in terms of shooting back) - and, from what I remember, every kill contributes to the rank, no matter the rank of the target (although higher ranked targets contribute more) - so a player could, eventually, reach Combat Elite by only destroying Novice (or less) targets which are unlikely to hone combat skill.

 

[M00ka]

Ah ranking, something near and dear to my heart. Personally I think FD screwed up in this regard, for example I am an Elite pilot (in both Trade and Exploration) yet I would be the first to say I am not that good a pilot.

I would much prefer if the entire rank structure changes, bring in other trades and activities like pirate, miner, space bus driver, heck even mission master and have each one top out at something other than Elite. Then have Elite Rank a combination of all the ranks in the various trades and activities, so there is only ONE rank (per Commander of course) in the Elite stream. That way when we see a Commander with the Elite rank, we know he has masters various different disciplines within the game.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

I'd question the "have to" there - as combat is entirely avoidable (in terms of shooting back) - and, from what I remember, every kill contributes to the rank, no matter the rank of the target (although higher ranked targets contribute more) - so a player could, eventually, reach Combat Elite by only destroying Novice (or less) targets which are unlikely to hone combat skill.

I'm not sure every kill does. I remember seeing somewhere that at a certain point harmless ships (and higher ranks as you rise up) stop adding to your ranking. Even if it didn't, it's a sizable number of kills to get to deadly (never mind the 1500+ elite ship kills needed to reach elite), so the time needed to get to combat elite without shooting down dangerous and above NPCs would likely be beyond the life of the game.

 

[Faded Glory]

I'm not sure every kill does. I remember seeing somewhere that at a certain point harmless ships (and higher ranks as you rise up) stop adding to your ranking. Even if it didn't, it's a sizable number of kills to get to deadly (never mind the 1500+ elite ship kills needed to reach elite), so the time needed to get to combat elite without shooting down dangerous and above NPCs would likely be beyond the life of the game.

Nope it got changed a while back. Now everything you destroy, even skimmers, contributes to your combat rank, albeit very little if your rank is significantly higher. When I was Deadly, I noticed my rank increment by a percentage point even though I had destroyed nothing but skimmers for quite some time.

 

[metatheurgist]

Silly me, I got my Combat elite when you didn't get XP for killing ships of lower rank.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Nope it got changed a while back. Now everything you destroy, even skimmers, contributes to your combat rank, albeit very little if your rank is significantly higher. When I was Deadly, I noticed my rank increment by a percentage point even though I had destroyed nothing but skimmers for quite some time.

Fair enough, I hadn't realised that change had happened. I do still think this would be like gaining exploration elite by scanning nothing but undiscovered systems in the bubble, or trade elite by hauling nothing but biowaste though.

I'm sure it's possible, but unless you're on some weird endurance challenge, it's got to be easier and more fun in the long run picking up some combat skills in the game.

 

[Misty_Dark]

So you want to "arbitrarily" add ranks just because of statistics? That will not work.... So one cycle you are Elite and then the next you are demoted down to Dangerous due to players dropping off, then something new releases and now are back at being Elite again...

This as bad as tryuing to grade students in class according to the same rules, take 3 classes, on average we can get some statitics numbers for the grades to give out, but due to how the selection of how we made up the classes, we now ended up with one class with weak students, one with medium students and one with strong students... with your thinking, we would have to dish out the same amount of grades in each of these classes, so despite that barely none of the students in the weak class barely managed to have passing scores, we would need to give them top grade! and then we on in the strong class, where noone is close to failling on their scores, we are forced to lower many of the students grade...


now take your groups of 5000 and apply the same logic for example... and we start to see how flawed this thinking is... as the collection of the group is not equal, so it depends on what other players you ends up getting ranked with... if you are unlucky and ends up among a big group of we do ALOT of stuff, and thus are at the top then you are clearly at an disadvantage, and in the meanwhile, I ended up in a group of laid back players that just are there to have fun, so me doing alot of stuff earns me easily the top spot in my group...


This is stupid on so many levels, you are trying to create a leaderboard out of our ranks... totally missing what ranks are...

 

[Faded Glory]

Fair enough, I hadn't realised that change had happened. I do still think this would be like gaining exploration elite by scanning nothing but undiscovered systems in the bubble, or trade elite by hauling nothing but biowaste though.

I'm sure it's possible, but unless you're on some weird endurance challenge, it's got to be easier and more fun in the long run picking up some combat skills in the game.

Well, you can gain exploration rank by only scanning previously discovered bodies (road to riches) and trade by hauling biowaste (I presume... )

But sure, for combat it will be very slow. The chart posted above shows that you always got some points for destroying ships at some levels below you. FD just made a change that all kills gave a very small amount of points towards rank. As you say, it would probably be more fun (and certainly much quicker) to do it by picking better fights.

The ranks in ED are simply in game motivators or goals, nothing more, and it is I am sure intended that they be achievable by everybody. The idea of them being an indication of anything other than time spent performing an activity isn't really feasible, certainly they are not indicative of skill. That said, acquiring skills is also a valid in-game goal which I'm sure many players work (or play) towards for their own satisfaction (and would certainly make the attaining of the in game goals quicker).

From what I can gather from the OP, his idea is simply the same but on a shorter cycle. If you want to be 'Elite' in combat, then you had better spend a lot of time just blowing up ships to stay in the top x% of players blowing up ships, otherwise you're not worthy of the rank, and it will be taken away from you. Not convinced that would be popular, especially as not everyone has the same amount of time that they are able to commit to playing the game.