More Yaw authority!

[Elphaba]

Hi

I know there has been discussion about this already, but do you think it would be possible to have a slider in the settings to enable greater or lesser yaw movement for the same input?

My rudders feel too darn sluggish (so too does pitch and roll tbh).

 

[Cody]

Welcome aboard...

I know there has been discussion about this already

... yeah, plenty of discussion. But the thing is, FD made a design decision (which by most accounts works very well).

 

[Alien]

You can't have a setting for something like that, imagine it .... you keep your setting to default, either you're new to the game or you want to remain faithful to how you feel it should be played. I play with max yaw. I have a turning advantage. I will always win.

Everyone has to have the same settings with something like that, or it's not fair. Also, if you have a variable yaw setting, once you know it's there, you'll just turn the setting to max, so what is the point of the setting if everyone has it at max?

 

[Styggron]

As people have mentioned, it was a design decision so yaw will pretty much stay as it is.

 

[TerranAmbassador]

If it really is "nerf the yaw, hell or high water", then that's...disappointing.

FD missed very interesting gameplay potential, not making it a function of what shape a particular ship is.

 

[Styggron]

Sandro's rationale was he did not want any "turreting".

 

[Alien]

If it really is "nerf the yaw, hell or high water", then that's...disappointing.

FD missed very interesting gameplay potential, not making it a function of what shape a particular ship is.

Now, while a yaw setting in the options is not possible (as I explained above), different ships having different yaw rates (but only by a small amount) is possible. "He's in a Sidewinder, I'm in an Anaconda, he's going to turn faster than me" is how it should be.

 

[Gedemon]

You can't have a setting for something like that, imagine it .... you keep your setting to default, either you're new to the game or you want to remain faithful to how you feel it should be played. I play with max yaw. I have a turning advantage. I will always win.

Everyone has to have the same settings with something like that, or it's not fair. Also, if you have a variable yaw setting, once you know it's there, you'll just turn the setting to max, so what is the point of the setting if everyone has it at max?

I can be wrong, but I think the OP doesn't ask to change the max yawn rate, but how much % of that maximum rate is applied when moving it's controller by X°, as there is a big difference between a rotating joystick and dedicated pedals.

 

[TerranAmbassador]

Sandro's rationale was he did not want any "turreting".

Which is not needed.

You can have ships like the Sidewinder or Cobra, which are long, wide, and very flat. They don't yaw very well because the thruster responsible for doing so can't get the torque to do so.

Then you can have ships like the Anaconda, long and thin. They can't roll quite as fast for the same reason, but their shapes allow for the yaw thrusters to push more efficiently. I imagine most ships like this would be of the large, dedicated cargo or passenger liner persuasion, so you can limit pitch/yaw ships to these and still not seem gimmicky or artificial/arbitrary.

You could even have wacky shapes like the imperial fighter, with it's 'sideways stick' orientation, which lends itself to yawing and rolling, rather than pitching, because those are the axes that generate torque most efficiently.

They don't have to be run-of-the-mill, every-other-ship-you-see common, but the occasional oddball ship that maneuvers in a different way to most others would be fun. Pilots could even build entire play-styles around flying oddball ships.

You don't need to make ships into turrets to play with strong yaw, or with varying the strength of a ship's rotation depending on which axis it rotates along, the latter of which they're already doing, to a disappointingly small extent.

 

[Charles Kelly]

I was really disappointed with the nerfed yaw at first but then I got used to it. At least the yaw is still good enough to track targets at a distance.

 

[mattyboy1509]

Hi

I know there has been discussion about this already, but do you think it would be possible to have a slider in the settings to enable greater or lesser yaw movement for the same input?

My rudders feel too darn sluggish (so too does pitch and roll tbh).

It is a remake in the original there was no yaw at all but. Combat was alot of fun.
Personally i love the feel of the ships as they are so far. Stick with it it will grow on you.

 

[Stormprooter]

The ships fly in a similar way to aircraft.
I agree with FD that this is more fun to play, and close to the feeling of playing the original, but much improved now.
I use the yaw to help fine-tune maneuvers, and it feels very much like using a rudder on an aircraft game.

 

[Bolthammer]

Its fine as is. No point change it when you can move just as fast with other controls. But yes beeing a turret is the easiest ...

 

[Susimetsa]

You can have ships like the Sidewinder or Cobra, which are long, wide, and very flat. They don't yaw very well because the thruster responsible for doing so can't get the torque to do so.

Then you can have ships like the Anaconda, long and thin. They can't roll quite as fast for the same reason, but their shapes allow for the yaw thrusters to push more efficiently. I imagine most ships like this would be of the large, dedicated cargo or passenger liner persuasion, so you can limit pitch/yaw ships to these and still not seem gimmicky or artificial/arbitrary.

Actually, the flat and wide shape of Cobra and Sidewinder makes for a good platform for both roll and yaw thrusters. It is the up/down turn that should be lesser in them (they are short). Long ships would be great at up/down & yaw, but slower at roll.

EDIT: and the power of the thrusters would naturally be the determining factor in any case.

 

[JKF]

The problem with slow yaw is that it's totally illogical.

In the Elite universe there's more than one ship manufacturer so it would be an advantage to produce a ship with faster yaw than your competitors. I would think the only ships to have limited control would be passenger ships for comfort reasons.

What about anarchy systems where ship modification can increase the yaw rate?

Then there's the military. If fast yaw gives an advantage in combat why would they restrict it?

As for tureting; wouldn't allowing players to discover their own tactics to counter tureting be more interesting? Surely the more we have to develop our combat skills the more interesting the game will become.

Artificial limiting of flight mechanics should really be left to global limits like g force on the pilot which no responsible manufacturer would ignore, or limits imposed by the platform/network.

It does seem like a lot of first time players instinctively recognise that yaw is not quite right. It will be interesting to see how yaw is received when the game is released to retail.

So far for me the yaw, and to a lesser degree the pitch, control makes the ships unsuitable for combat, effectively not fit for purpose. Perhaps as cargo carriers they are fine, alpha 4 should answer that.

Ask yourself, if you'd taken a cobra or sidewinder for a test flight prior to purchase for pirating duties, would you buy it or would you go look for something more suitable, assuming you didn't actually know limited yaw was a universal constant?

 

[-o-]

I think in time we all have to accept that the game is built around Elite physics and rules, which in themselves are built around modified real world physics.

God, or whatever scientific power you believe in, created the rules that dictate events in our universe. However, DB is God in the universe of ED, and as God, he creates whatever rules he desires.

We are living in the moments shortly after the big bang in his universe. The fundamental rules are already in place, unable to be changed, and any subsequent events have no choice but to obey these rules.

Hence the inablity to yaw effectively.
Hence the speed limit.
Hence the colour of monkeys on Ghiriba.

What is illogical here, may be perfectly logical there.

 

[Memnoch]

Then you can have ships like the Anaconda, long and thin. They can't roll quite as fast for the same reason, but their shapes allow for the yaw thrusters to push more efficiently.

It wouldn't really work like this as you spend most of your time in a vacuum. The physical layout of your ship would make no difference, but mass would.

As for tureting; wouldn't allowing players to discover their own tactics to counter tureting be more interesting? Surely the more we have to develop our combat skills the more interesting the game will become.

In reality all that would happen is that players would probably come to a dead stop and sit there spinning about shooting at the enemy. Sure, some "adventerous" types would still be flying about too.

 

[Jack Booted Thug]

The problem with slow yaw is that it's totally illogical.

In the Elite universe there's more than one ship manufacturer so it would be an advantage to produce a ship with faster yaw than your competitors. I would think the only ships to have limited control would be passenger ships for comfort reasons.

What about anarchy systems where ship modification can increase the yaw rate?

Then there's the military. If fast yaw gives an advantage in combat why would they restrict it?

As for tureting; wouldn't allowing players to discover their own tactics to counter tureting be more interesting? Surely the more we have to develop our combat skills the more interesting the game will become.

Artificial limiting of flight mechanics should really be left to global limits like g force on the pilot which no responsible manufacturer would ignore, or limits imposed by the platform/network.

It does seem like a lot of first time players instinctively recognise that yaw is not quite right. It will be interesting to see how yaw is received when the game is released to retail.

So far for me the yaw, and to a lesser degree the pitch, control makes the ships unsuitable for combat, effectively not fit for purpose. Perhaps as cargo carriers they are fine, alpha 4 should answer that.

Ask yourself, if you'd taken a cobra or sidewinder for a test flight prior to purchase for pirating duties, would you buy it or would you go look for something more suitable, assuming you didn't actually know limited yaw was a universal constant?

The problem with your premise is that you are completely ignoring the gameplay dynamic of Elite Dangerous.

It's illogical that a football (soccer) player cannot hoof the ball up the field to a mate right in front of the goal without getting an offside yet the offside rule improves the gameplay dynamic of football.

Yaw is nerfed in Elite: Dangerous for a very specific reason and I like it.

 

[Cody]

Hence the colour of monkeys on Ghiriba.

Priceless!

 

[JKF]

The problem with your premise is that you are completely ignoring the gameplay dynamic of Elite Dangerous.

It's illogical that a football (soccer) player cannot hoof the ball up the field to a mate right in front of the goal without getting an offside yet the offside rule improves the gameplay dynamic of football.

Yaw is nerfed in Elite: Dangerous for a very specific reason and I like it.

Gameplay is subjective, not logical. What some might find good, others may not!

And since non of us have had the opportunity to play the game with an un-nerfed version of yaw we can only imagine what it might be like. It is possible that players would enjoy the game just as much without nerfed yaw.