Multicrew trolling - it works!

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So...FDev created a new feature solely to play with other people. Spent months on development.

that feature allows zero consequence trolling.

FDev are 100% ok with this and don't plan on fixing it. Which will probably kill the feature dead, if the Reddit thread about this is any indication.

The official response: take responsibility for your actions. Apparently that shouldn't apply to the people who made the feature and left us without the tools to protect ourselves from trolling, however. Only to us.

Honestly, what...Who MAKES these decisions?
 
Wow, what a thread. More than once I've suggested that FD are blind or naive when it comes to metagaming but I never thought I'd see it laid out in black and white like this. It's almost embarrassing.

The concept of Multi-crew, at its core, is about cooperation, and trust. If folk are going to troll each other, there's a limit to how much protection we can (or should) put in place.
The thing is, if you look back at what your CEO was saying during the early promotion for this project, cooperation and trust was supposed to be core to most activities within the game, with direct PVP a rare and contextual event. In the absence of any in-game mechanisms to modulate those activities it very quickly became evident just how off the mark that vision was. You were warned of this pre-launch, then you saw it with your own eyes post. Did you learn nothing about gamer behaviour in the years since?

One of gunner's abilities is to be able to fire countermeasures. Gunner can be effective at this, poor at this, or deliberately bad. Anyone who would want to go down the last track is, in my opinion, someone I would not want to Multi-crew with, or wing with.
Well obviously, but since the only tool you've given MC CMDRs is a switch that says "Randoms off / Randoms on" it makes it pretty difficult to determine which track those joining crewmembers are going to go down until they start firing off all your munitions or launching your own fighter against you.

Was that really a core part of the Multi-crew design? Assume trust but wait for the attempted knife in the back? And what of the possible in-universe responses? Report them to the EFP for transgression? Inform the local faction so they get a reputation hit? Treat self-inflicted ship damage as a reportable crime? No, just another out-of-universe Kick/Block function. Sad.

To some degree, folk have to take responsibility for their own actions.
Which "folk" are these? If it's the folk doing the "trolling" then you and I both know that's a meaningless statement. Whereas if it's the folk being trolled then what you're effectively asking is for them to take responsibility for the potential actions of others, while not giving them sufficient tools to do so in a selective way. Turning off SCBs in the middle of combat in case a Random decides to fry your ship is ridiculous.

Firing shield cells repeatedly for no good reason is just an unpleasant thing to do. And I'm fairly certain it is more likely to be detrimental to the community than helpful.
Well duh. Honestly, I can't tell at this point whether you are astonishingly naive or actually trolling us yourself. If anyone else on these forums had posted that last sentence there would have been a dozen follow-ups encouraging the poster to "man up", "grow a pair", "git gud" and a whole bunch of other choice clichés.

I don't normally stoop to dissecting developer posts like this but I almost can't believe I'm seeing this weasel-wordy stuff coming from the Lead Designer.

At least the later posts talk about the possibility of further options, and integration with the mythical karma system which I guess is something. Maybe. Still, in the immediate future I'd expect your telemetry to show a rapid fall-off in Open MC, as players realise their only choice is to risk sabotage or to lock down so much of their ship's systems as to make MC increasingly pointless for both commander and crew. It may find a home in Private Groups, but as a game element designed to bring people together it'll be hard to spin it as a major success if that's what happens.

I literally don't know how to end this with a pithy comment. I'm still shaking my head at the bizarreness of the whole thing.
 
Well said.

Well said, yes. But people who are going to troll are not likely to be moved by this. Some players such as myself who are not inclined to troll at all will read the OP, and actually get a good laugh out of it, because at this point, what else is there to do? I mean, for the foreseeable future, we have the lead game designer combating this issue by saying he is disappointed with it and it is not a good way to support the game...and those who are inclined to troll and going to what? Say Hallelujah Brother Sandro! I've seen the light, and repent and change my wicked ways!

Fun times once SDC makes a concerted effort to show the flaws in MC...
 
So disable the various modules, then get a feeling for the type of play style the person you let onto your ship has, is going to be the safest way to proceed, it appears.

Too bad there is not an "in-game" way to post a bounty on someone.
 
Hello Commanders!



However, I personally don't feel that ruining other folks game experience is a good or valid way to prove a point. To me it's no different to trolling for fun. Of course, opinions will differ, but I can't help feeling that it's ultimately not a great way to support the game.

Unfortunately Sandro there are people who play this game simply to sabotage it. You only need to look on youtube and the videos some people post (this happens with most games and online interactions). They dont care about the game or the community, they just want to break it.

The game for them is the trolling.
 
This is a very easy fix, but it goes against the spirit this feature based upon...increasing player interaction, building friends lists, enhancing the social aspects. The devs are really trying to force a basically single player game into the multi player realm, and it is proving difficult. Numerous development decisions show this...splitting ship functions away from the single pilot rather than creating new functions, removing barriers to access to absurd levels, as in no negative repercussions or any kind of accountability at all for a crew member, not allowing NPC crew...

It's a really easy fix, but it's way better than having the neverending complaints from people seemingly not capable of complex thinking.

Sorry, but that's what it looks like.

People complain about the possibility for troll to ruin their day, but they choose to let them onto their ship.

And yes, the core function of MC is to increase player interaction, but I don't see how choosing who you let onto your ship is against it's spirit.

It's also about being able to go into a CZ, res or other conflict regions on the same ship. I don't know where you come from and if you have ever served in any armed forces, but you will never go into combat with somebody you just met 5min ago. That's why, while serving you live and train together.
 
However, I personally don't feel that ruining other folks game experience is a good or valid way to prove a point. To me it's no different to trolling for fun. Of course, opinions will differ, but I can't help feeling that it's ultimately not a great way to support the game.

Sandro, the people who do this are not looking to "support the game". Even those griefers and trolls who truly enjoy the game will not curtail their activities for such reasons. Allegiance had an amazingly dedicated playerbase, but some of the veterans treated it as their private play pen, and took great pleasure in putting new arrivals "to their place", and never felt any obligation to be welcoming or even a little less horrible.

They were repeatedly told, and it was proven that such behavior was driving away 80 - 90% of the new arrrivals we could lure into the game. They were annoyed when it was hard to get a game going due to low numbers, but they never, ever stopped their behavior. They just made remarks, just like here, about how "it's just a game" and "they just need to grow a thicker skin" (this is the clean version).

I'll say it again. Wishful thinking isn't enough. This phenomenon has to be understood, and designed for. Elite is being hurt quite a bit by the fact that bad actors have free reign.
 
Someone stick a pin in me I'm so full of pop corn I might burst!

What a thread! Well done OP. Mission accomplished. In game bug testing and in forum discussion. To the max.

I've seen a few people suggest there should be a way to score people negatively on MC for committing crimes. To those likely to be marked down I would say come fly with me. I'm always committing crimes. You sound like my kind of scum. (I only have two seats tho so that three way I've been looking for isn't likely to happen at my place!)

To those who have light fingers and like the look of my utilities I would say, thank you for making my game a bit more random. In another thread we recently discussed having junk yard ships that might be cheaper but might throw up random malfunctions (Engineeres in reverse!) I liked that idea and I also like the idea of crew I can't entirely trust. I'm a thieving Pirate so that appeals to me. You shouldn't trust me entirely either! By the end of the Piracy session we will either be broke and wanted or richer than you could imagine.

And also Wanted.

Finally I think it's worth thinking about how many times this sort of this has happened versus how many "clean" multi crew transactions occur. I suspect that like griefing the incidents is on the lower end of the spectrum and may not actually be a problem.

Unless of course you are stuck out in Beagle Point with no heat sinks. That sucks.
 
So...FDev created a new feature solely to play with other people. Spent months on development.

that feature allows zero consequence trolling.

FDev are 100% ok with this and don't plan on fixing it. Which will probably kill the feature dead, if the Reddit thread about this is any indication.

The official response: take responsibility for your actions. Apparently that shouldn't apply to the people who made the feature and left us without the tools to protect ourselves from trolling, however. Only to us.

Honestly, what...Who MAKES these decisions?

And this is the less diplomatic version of what I said.

Agreed.
 
If you choose an exploration role it seems odd you'd be given access to heatsinks.

yes it does, with little else to do when joining exploration MC i tend to lose focus and get bored. So being quick with a HS when one is rarely needed is unlikely.

I was hoping for navigation control to be available or some kind of world scanning mini game (one can hope)
 

Jenner

I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
Well said, yes. But people who are going to troll are not likely to be moved by this. Some players such as myself who are not inclined to troll at all will read the OP, and actually get a good laugh out of it, because at this point, what else is there to do? I mean, for the foreseeable future, we have the lead game designer combating this issue by saying he is disappointed with it and it is not a good way to support the game...and those who are inclined to troll and going to what? Say Hallelujah Brother Sandro! I've seen the light, and repent and change my wicked ways!

Fun times once SDC makes a concerted effort to show the flaws in MC...

All I can do is voice my support for the sentiment.

I'm not a game designer, and I'm not going to jump headlong into this thread since I would basically forfeit my ability to moderate it. :)
 
Hello Commanders!

Final thoughts for the day.

To reiterate: we're not against implementing safety features for helm, assuming they work and fit into schedules. This has been raised a number of times in a reasonable manner, is something of interest to us, and if and when we have workable tweaks, we'll let you know.

However, I personally don't feel that ruining other folks game experience is a good or valid way to prove a point. To me it's no different to trolling for fun. Of course, opinions will differ, but I can't help feeling that it's ultimately not a great way to support the game.

I'm not sure what this even means? Are you suggesting that putting in safeguards for the helm might be bad because it would ruin the fun for the troller? I'm seriously confused.
 
My original post was deleted by the moderator... a little too salty I guess. Suffice it to say you're part of the problem not the solution...Enjoy your petulance.
Yesterday i've joined several ships, for bounty hunting and exploring.

Joining ships and just sitting there, doing nothing and get money for it, perfect for me.
If they ask why i'm not fighting, i said....oh i'm new to the game, need to figure out how everything works. (If they only would check my profile lol)

Now i found the option to deploy SCB's, which i did....oh nice, 3x cell banks.....enough to make the ship overheat.
The CMDR were slightly distracted and worried why all the SCB's are gone.
I said, obviously a bug *gggggg
Finally they figured it was me...but it was almost too late...they had to leave the haz res.

Found it more enjoyable instead of actually fighting.

I then tried to find some exploration vessels.....one were near Sag A.
Oh see, there are heatsinks to deploy.....the ASP CMDR hasn't realized it was me.
Another CMDR was even further away, heading to beagle point......and after my telepresence visit he lost all his heatsinks, i told him he need to restock and left.

What we have learned today?
Multicrew has flaws.....terrible flaws....which needs to be fixed. I might join some other ships today again, coz it was fun to troll innocent CMDR's.
 
Nice things we've lost over the last 2.5 yrs due to idiots that cannot control themselves:
Strong missiles
Speedy landings
Ability to dump all cargo

Future:
Healing beams
MC controlling more than just weapons

Please add to the list.
 
I would like it if at least the crew was stuck with me in the same ship. There could be tons of gameplay around this as well, but no legs... again
 

Minonian

Banned
I have one tough about game balance / bug issues / smaller necessary changes. Micro patches. once in a month or so, and we have the problems and necessary changes faster.
 
Nice things we've lost over the last 2.5 yrs due to idiots that cannot control themselves:
Strong missiles
Speedy landings
Ability to dump all cargo

Future:
Healing beams
MC controlling more than just weapons

Please add to the list.

But all of these things that the trolls have done, the formation of SDC, things like that were all fully expected. Not one damn thing they have done right from the very beginning is any surprise what so ever. Not nice things, yes. Bad for the community, yes. Anti social, and drive players away, absolutely. Surprising and unexpected? Not in the least. Going into any kind of design...you always plan and design for the known, and expect some level of unknown, and be able to respond on the fly in an effective way.
 

Deleted member 48160

D
I feel like people like OP is the reason I get instakicked when joining other people ships:eek:
 
Yesterday i've joined several ships, for bounty hunting and exploring.

Joining ships and just sitting there, doing nothing and get money for it, perfect for me.
If they ask why i'm not fighting, i said....oh i'm new to the game, need to figure out how everything works. (If they only would check my profile lol)

Now i found the option to deploy SCB's, which i did....oh nice, 3x cell banks.....enough to make the ship overheat.
The CMDR were slightly distracted and worried why all the SCB's are gone.
I said, obviously a bug *gggggg
Finally they figured it was me...but it was almost too late...they had to leave the haz res.

Found it more enjoyable instead of actually fighting.

I then tried to find some exploration vessels.....one were near Sag A.
Oh see, there are heatsinks to deploy.....the ASP CMDR hasn't realized it was me.
Another CMDR was even further away, heading to beagle point......and after my telepresence visit he lost all his heatsinks, i told him he need to restock and left.

What we have learned today?
Multicrew has flaws.....terrible flaws....which needs to be fixed. I might join some other ships today again, coz it was fun to troll innocent CMDR's.


That's why the 'solo' button will always be my favourite.
 
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