Multicrew trolling - it works!

[Bladefeather]

I was just doing multicrew mining and someone else joined. When we went to the station to dock they went out in the fighter and got us killed. So... yeah...

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

Hello Commanders!

I just thought I'd drop my own two cents in here.

The concept of Multi-crew, at its core, is about cooperation, and trust. If folk are going to troll each other, there's a limit to how much protection we can (or should) put in place.

One of gunner's abilities is to be able to fire countermeasures. Gunner can be effective at this, poor at this, or deliberately bad. Anyone who would want to go down the last track is, in my opinion, someone I would not want to Multi-crew with, or wing with.

To some degree, folk have to take responsibility for their own actions. There's no mechanical upside to this unpleasant behaviour, so I see this as different from say, crime, because the game actively encourages criminal behaviour; when folk complain that the justice system is not fair enough, we say "OK", how can we address the balance and make it fairer.

Firing shield cells repeatedly for no good reason is just an unpleasant thing to do. And I'm fairly certain it is more likely to be detrimental to the community than helpful.

I wish lead designers in games would take responsibility for their own actions, other than claim the game is "working as intended" because trolling in multi-crew is actively encouraged in game because it is "criminal" behaviour (Oh, and listen to the community).

I honestly can't remember a lead designer of a game ever coming out and saying something like this, in all honesty. Ever.

Multi-crew has been... no, is a huge let down.

Huge.

The Helm should have priority over;

1) Collector Limpet Controllers
2) Prospector Limpet Controllers
3) Heat Sinks
4) Shield Cell Banks

The Gunner should have priority over;

1) ECMs
2) Chaff
3) Every scanner under the sun.

Because out of all of those utilities, at least these aren't detrimental and still give the Gunner role utilities.

But no, you decided to just let the Gunner do everything that the Helm should have control over (is firing 1-7 turrets not enough for a "gunner" role?), considering Heat Sinks and Shield Cell Banks are both required to do one job and are kind of essential for ship survivability - and also make it decidedly harder to actually do any mining in multi-crew.

Instead of applying an AFK system for any crew members not to exploit sitting in a ship and raking in 100% profit, you instead turn credit pay outs into worthless pay outs - why? "Because new players"...

Really? The new players starting in Sidewinders? When you gave away Cobra Mk.III's to practically everyone when you launched the game!? Because, let's face it, the original backers or pre-orders didn't have to start rock bottom - yet most of them complained about new players getting "fast progression" - hypocritical much?

Yeah, some would have abused it (unless you bothered to hardwire in an AFK function into multicrew that kicked an idle client after 5 minutes... but hey, work), however, for the most part, it would have made the experience of multicrew REWARDING on top of the fun OR furious attempts at trying to get it to work because of connection problems.

Honestly, this response is not what I was hoping for.

Multi-crew is practically dead - it's only use is for movie makers and for 120 minutes of fun time in the life time of this game.

Utility functions are a mess.

Connection issues are a mess.

Reward system is a mess.

How could you screw over such a long awaited feature (if not thee feature everyone was looking forward to in this game)... and then turn around to us and say "we'll improve it if it's popular..."

O... M... G...

Seriously Samarco, drink some red bull or something, because you need to wake up - or actually get the courage to read these forums more often, because I don't think you do... unless someone badgers you in the office.

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

It's not a design decision; it's a "we kinda hardcoded those utilities to the fire buttons so it's really hard to separate them out for gunners" decision.

I only multicrew with friends (or people I want to be friends with), so rando multi crew is kind of out for me anyway. That said, when my newbie friend started asking about SCBs and heatsinks and such I told him not to worry about it. Don't press those buttons. Realistically, it's not something the gunner should have access to. It's gonna take extra work, but yeah, that needs to be separated out, Sandro.

 

[Mr_Foxhound]

Would you prefer a system like Destiny's where you essentially have to find groups outside of the game and friend them in order to MC? You'd still get trolls but a lot less probably.

have you played ED ? that is exactly what you have to do if you want group play use 3rd party app's and websited

 

[Red Anders]

It's not a design decision; it's a "we kinda hardcoded those utilities to the fire buttons so it's really hard to separate them out for gunners" decision.

If that was the case, I'd love for you to explain how it wasn't in itself a design decision.

 

[Sandmann]

Really? The new players starting in Sidewinders? When you gave away Cobra Mk.III's to practically everyone when you launched the game!? Because, let's face it, the original backers or pre-orders didn't have to start rock bottom - yet most of them complained about new players getting "fast progression" - hypocritical much?

Uhh premium beta here. We started with sidewinders, and all our progress got wiped just before release. I did get a free eagle... (it's still parked somewhere)... and I'm able to BUY a cobra mk iv (I never bothered) but we didn't get one free.

 

[LeoBartlet]

Uhh premium beta here. We started with a sidewinders, and all our progress got wiped just befofe release. I did get a free eagle... (it's still parked somewhere)... and I'm able to BUY a cobra mk iv (I never bothered) but we didn't get one free.

Can confirm I too was a betard backer and all I got was a pdf artbook 2 years later and a sidey/freegle to start the game with.

- - - Updated - - -

Found it more enjoyable instead of actually fighting.

Small minds are easily amused.

 

[Monk]

I cant believe you even need to spell this out to all those claiming sandro is 'delusional' or 'intentionally supporting trolling'. Common sense is the next rare commodity...

When you've made a career of explaining development to business people and explaining business to developers, you tend not to make any assumptions of common sense.

 

[kofeyh]

Well there you go folks it a legitimate play style, thats one big nail in the coffin for MC.

Oh for heaven's sake. If people are going to just invite anyone, after demanding the developer add all this additional control - yes, the extra capabilities are because commanders asked for it - then who's ultimately responsible?

If it's my boat, I am responsible for it. So you better believe I'm going to vet people who join my ship(s). If it's your boat, you get to make the rules; and who joins.

Could commanders, possibly, ever, think about what they are asking for? Could you possibly do that? Ever? At all? Because this schizophrenic "we must have immersion!" followed by protestations about outcomes from the developer providing it - is as equally stupid, as it is old.

The developer has provided a feature that allows people to control who boards, who stays, who is removed. There is nothing to fix, beyond perhaps some comprehension. Sandro is 100% on the mark. People are ultimately responsible for their actions, the game can provide controls, but it's up to the players to manage that.

This is like exclaiming the maker of scissors should have to police how people use them. It's blame shifting and patently ignorant of context.

 

[Kubicide]

Hello Commanders!

I just thought I'd drop my own two cents in here.

The concept of Multi-crew, at its core, is about cooperation, and trust. If folk are going to troll each other, there's a limit to how much protection we can (or should) put in place.

One of gunner's abilities is to be able to fire countermeasures. Gunner can be effective at this, poor at this, or deliberately bad. Anyone who would want to go down the last track is, in my opinion, someone I would not want to Multi-crew with, or wing with.

To some degree, folk have to take responsibility for their own actions. There's no mechanical upside to this unpleasant behaviour, so I see this as different from say, crime, because the game actively encourages criminal behaviour; when folk complain that the justice system is not fair enough, we say "OK", how can we address the balance and make it fairer.

Firing shield cells repeatedly for no good reason is just an unpleasant thing to do. And I'm fairly certain it is more likely to be detrimental to the community than helpful.

And there we go. Legit game play confirmed. Remember the game is called Elite: DANGEROUS for a reason - like the loyal fans have been telling many of us for some time now. Have to laugh at anyone who actually didn't think this would happen as the OP has described where someone joins simply to grief or troll. This game just keeps getting better with the living, breathing universe thing doesn't it. Btw where are all the white knights?

OP: good job, seriously, in making folks realize one of the biggest flaws in MC.

 

[CMDR Spadino]

Yesterday i've joined several ships, for bounty hunting and exploring.

Joining ships and just sitting there, doing nothing and get money for it, perfect for me.
If they ask why i'm not fighting, i said....oh i'm new to the game, need to figure out how everything works. (If they only would check my profile lol)

Now i found the option to deploy SCB's, which i did....oh nice, 3x cell banks.....enough to make the ship overheat.
The CMDR were slightly distracted and worried why all the SCB's are gone.
I said, obviously a bug *gggggg
Finally they figured it was me...but it was almost too late...they had to leave the haz res.

Found it more enjoyable instead of actually fighting.

I then tried to find some exploration vessels.....one were near Sag A.
Oh see, there are heatsinks to deploy.....the ASP CMDR hasn't realized it was me.
Another CMDR was even further away, heading to beagle point......and after my telepresence visit he lost all his heatsinks, i told him he need to restock and left.

What we have learned today?
Multicrew has flaws.....terrible flaws....which needs to be fixed. I might join some other ships today again, coz it was fun to troll innocent CMDR's.

Funny! No... wait... it's horrible! lol

Agree with you in all respect. Multicrew is, in the current state, pretty good for... hum... let me think... what's the question?

 

[Derek Speare [VR]]

Give the owner of the ship control over what precise weapon on the ship the gunner can use. It's simple. SCB's are not a weapon system in any definition. The gunner has no business controlling them at all.

 

[thirstyfish]

Give the owner of the ship control over what precise weapon on the ship the gunner can use. It's simple. SCB's are not a weapon system in any definition. The gunner has no business controlling them at all.

^^^This. They say that the simplest solution is usually the best one. That has never been more true.

 

[Soopyyy]

Give the owner of the ship control over what precise weapon on the ship the gunner can use. It's simple. SCB's are not a weapon system in any definition. The gunner has no business controlling them at all.

Given that you don't even need to bind the SBC to a fire group (there is a hotkey), I can't work out why they are even in the hotgroup selection.

 

[Globusdiablo]

He means taking part in a trollish activity is more likely to be detrimental to the community than the guise presented by the OP that it would helpful to the community.

If your assumption is indeed true, then Sandro considers hosting Multicrew a detrimental risk to the Elite: Dangerous community unless you only invite players you "know and trust"? If that is indeed the intended premise, then I struggle to see who and how many this new feature is supposed to appeal to.

Don't get me wrong, I embrace the cutthroat galaxy FD has provided. Anything goes. But saying that players should take responsibility for their actions, yet having little to no responsibility/consequence for detrimental behaviour in-game? Isn't that asking for detriment?

To me this multicrew feature seems as well conceived and as ill executed as CQC.

 

[Soopyyy]

If your assumption is indeed true, then Sandro considers hosting Multicrew a detrimental risk to the Elite: Dangerous community unless you only invite players you "know and trust"? If that is indeed the intended premise, then I struggle to see who and how many this new feature is supposed to appeal to.

Don't get me wrong, I embrace the cutthroat galaxy FD has provided. Anything goes. But saying that players should take responsibility for their actions, yet having little to no responsibility/consequence for detrimental behaviour in-game? Isn't that asking for detriment?

To me this multicrew feature seems as well conceived and as ill executed as CQC.

Worse than CQC. CQC had a point, it was functional, its just not what the community wanted. Multi-crew completely defeats the point of its own existence.

 

[VR jefranklin18]

Can confirm I too was a betard backer and all I got was a pdf artbook 2 years later and a sidey/freegle to start the game with.

It was a Kickstarter specific reward where you had a Cobra as a starting ship. I still have mine in dry dock and occasionally take her for spin.

 

[Jazzy]

You can't block a troll before you know they are a troll, and once they have burned up your ship and used up your heat sinks it's all a little bit too late.

^^ This exactly, another reason Multi-Crew will go the same way as CQC (What a joke to of even bothered adding it), and Powerplay..... Nice novelty at first, they falls into the abyss of hardly a soul using it due to bugs, griefing ability and so on.

Quite feel sorry for the explorers way out having their HSinks etc chewed up due to wanting to share the wonders and sights out n the void cause of moronic players who like the world to burn!

 

[Sandmann]

It was a Kickstarter specific reward where you had a Cobra as a starting ship. I still have mine in dry dock and occasionally take her for spin.

So not really so many that it's going to be a statistically significant number players running round with the HUGE head start after some 4 years?

 

[VR jefranklin18]

So not really so many that it's going to be a statistically significant number players running round with the HUGE head start after some 4 years?

Indeed and then there were several options that have you a pre-configured Eagle or whatever. I presume if I were mad enough to wipe my save, the choices would still be there.