I think I'm done. The new terrain generation completely and utterly destroys any verisimilitude this game has for me.
This planet basically killed Elite for me.
This planet basically killed Elite for me.
New Planet Tech is KILLER of Exploration (all terrain is tiling/repeating/not procedural/random)
- Thread starter BlackMaze
- Start date
Looks like you found the Riddler's homeworld
The duplicate patterns are bad, yeah... Those really have to go. Especially because they also resemble the features on ground.
That said, it's not really fair to ignore the awesome stuff the new planetary tech can do and that there's tons of planets where the pattern-issue does not occur.
This is also not terrain generation, but rather a planet mapping problem with basic patterns. I guess that happens before?
I'm under the impression that's a glitch in morphing patterns into unique features where some of the origin textures just aren't changed before they are applied. The worst case I've seen so far affected a really big area on a planet with two similar patterns right next to each other. This can't work as intended.
That said, it's awful and I really want it gone.
Strange enough, I couldn't find a logged issue, so I created one:
Also, and just because it's popular at the moment to compare great planets in Horizons with their counterparts in Odyssey, here's a comparison the other way around:
This is Aryak B 2
Odyssey:
Horizons
Odyssey:
Horizons:
Odyssey:
Horizons:
My take:
I kinda like the haze in the Horizons versions and the overall lighting from orbit. Maybe the latter is a global lighting problem in Odyssey.
The rest... Odyssey. Absolutely. I don't even need to think about it for a second.
Bonus in Odyssey: There's volcanic areas with volvano rock formations and gigantic fumeroles.
This isn't a random planet. I found it in Odyssey and thought it was cool, by the way.
This is Aryak B 2
Odyssey:
Horizons
Odyssey:
Horizons:
Odyssey:
Horizons:
My take:
I kinda like the haze in the Horizons versions and the overall lighting from orbit. Maybe the latter is a global lighting problem in Odyssey.
The rest... Odyssey. Absolutely. I don't even need to think about it for a second.
Bonus in Odyssey: There's volcanic areas with volvano rock formations and gigantic fumeroles.
This isn't a random planet. I found it in Odyssey and thought it was cool, by the way.
Well, it's kinda made of tiles.Ah, the tiling is strong with the first planet
But nice samples
And Canyons (which are only about 1km deep, sadly.)
Oh dear gods, those planets in the OP look like the background on a geocities page circa 1997.
And this is a completely random pick. Just jumped to a random system, clicked on a random planet, went there to look what it's like.
I also didn't do much cherry picking on the location. I picked a canyon like feature present on both versions as a landing site. I dropped down, landed near the canyon, starting shooting.
Ice planet this time.
Odyssey:
Horizons:
Odyssey:
Horizons:
Odyssey:
Horizons:
Odyssey:
Horizons:
Odyssey:
Horizons:
I was surprised by the darkness on the Horizons version. Maybe that's because Odyssey's version is white and reflects more light?
My vote clearly goes to Odyssey here.
That said, I've seen more beautiful planets in Horizons and more ugly ones in Odyssey too.
I also didn't do much cherry picking on the location. I picked a canyon like feature present on both versions as a landing site. I dropped down, landed near the canyon, starting shooting.
Ice planet this time.
Odyssey:
Horizons:
Odyssey:
Horizons:
Odyssey:
Horizons:
Odyssey:
Horizons:
Odyssey:
Horizons:
I was surprised by the darkness on the Horizons version. Maybe that's because Odyssey's version is white and reflects more light?
My vote clearly goes to Odyssey here.
That said, I've seen more beautiful planets in Horizons and more ugly ones in Odyssey too.
Ahhhh, even more of that crater tiles, ahhhhhh
Sorry I think I started dreaming of earth like planets with the "continent" of GB plastered all over it, again and again last night...
In general I too prefer the new look, if they get the lightning fixed.
Did you notice while venturing, that shadows on the surface of ice planets now tend to be really pitch black and light up nicely under the light of your torch? That looks really nice too.
I actually don't know which crater tiles you mean.Ahhhh, even more of that crater tiles, ahhhhhh
Sorry I think I started dreaming of earth like planets with the "continent" of GB plastered all over it, again and again last night...
In general I too prefer the new look, if they get the lightning fixed.
Did you notice while venturing, that shadows on the surface of ice planets now tend to be really pitch black and light up nicely under the light of your torch? That looks really nice too.
Concerning shadow/light stuff I noticed a few things I really liked, like the general lighting on atmospherics and other things where I thought there's too much light scattering on some airless planets for example.
Shadows dancing around and so on are glitches for me. Saw that in Horizons too.
I mean the one crater you see in this planet. That's exactly the same on every other crater I have seen ingame so far, down to every streak of the impact.
Not necessarily repeated multiple times on one single planet, but reminds me how low the overall variance in tiles for the planet gen is.
Not sure if it's exactly the same, but I saw those as well, yeah. Also didn't find a single crater in Odyssey so far that has a bump in the middle.
Also: I got one more direct comparison, not as dramatic this time and with a major flaw on the Odyssey side of things.
Rocky planet. Random pick.
Odyssey:
Horizons:
Odyssey:
Horizons:
Odyssey:
Horizons:
In my opinion the Odyssey surface wins tenfold. I like the haze or dust in Horizons, though I'm still not sure if that's realistic (which is important to me.) It would definitely help with LOD stuff in the distance in Odyssey, as it surely does in Horizons.
Scatter rocks and all are absolutely lovely in Odyssey as is the overall terrain in my opinion.
It also has an icy pole and if you go there the surface looks change dramatically, which is absolutely awesome if you ask me.
Planet view is another thing entirely. No clue about the realism here, but I like the brittle-looking stone surface on the Horizons planet.
The Odyssey one though looks more like realistic interpretations of exoplanets I've seen. I guess there's a lot of variety as well.
BUT the Odyssey planet automatically loses the "nice look from orbit" competition because it actually comes with those nasty duplicate patterns.
The haze partly comes back if you correct the lightning, I think they just focussed that more on planets with actual atmospheres now.
Yeah. We'll see about what happens.
The haze helps a ton with distance LOD, like in most open world games, which look just weird if you use tweaks to kill off the fog.
But on planets without atmosphere, fog and atmospheric haze is not a thing and without anything disturbing the ground, dust will just settle and done.
I mean, here comes reality:
No haze.
Also no duplicate patterns though.
![[VR] Merkir](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/141/141091.jpg?1553527154){kind=avatar}
Since we're giving subjective opinions (and there's nothing wrong with that)...
The first two days on Odyssey for me was - wow, this is great! The vibrant colours, the huge crater rays covering half a planet, the massive regions of what I'd call "mozaic clay tiles" (see shots above), the biomes including icy poles on landables. All the completely new and wonderful stuff. And I concentrated on the atmospheric landables which are truly gorgeous.
Then, after a few days, reality set in.
The huge craters with their massive rays look copy-pasta, and not very believable. I've seen so many now they are starting to grate.
The "mozaic clay tile" regions are far too common. Again I see them ALL the time, with no real variation.
Deep canyons appear to be (almost) gone. I know some explorers have found some, so that's good, but there are far too many planets with only shallow terrain.
Large mountains appear to be (almost) gone. I'm aware this is by design as Dr. Ross has explained.
Then, after a few more days, I spent time going back and forth between Odyssey and Horizons, comparing. In particular I've been looking at terrain tile patterns and their rarity.
My conclusion regarding terrain tiles:
In Odyssey, every HMC and Rocky planet uses very obvious repetitive terrain tiles. I haven't found a single HMC or Rocky that doesn't have them. 20-40 km altitude is when they're most obvious IMO, but there are often repetitions at different scales too, as seen many times in this thread. Note that I haven't looked at other planet types yet, only Rocky and HMC.
In Horizons, I cannot find repetitions at any scale. The terrain appears very much chaotic. It feels real, with one-off mountains and varied canyons and other very unique terrain. However it doesn't have the biomes of Odyssey, and going back to Horizons now, that's a stark difference in Odyssey's favour.
My overall general feelings (without my explorer hat on)...
At a cursory glance, most planets in Odyssey LOOK better. Many look glorious. The atmospheric landables are to die for. My first impression of most Odyssey planets has been that they look amazing - the new terrain types and biomes especially. But that impression has certainly faded over the last few days due to the repetition, and not just the tile repetition, but also lack of variation in the new terrain types.
And in terms of verisimilitude, Horizons wins. Some Horizons planets have wow factor (as we all know), but all seem to have that terrain variation that's needed to make the planet feel right.
Finally, with my explorer hat on...
I think Odyssey planets have failed. The whole premise of ED is supposed to be PROCEDURAL GENERATION - that terrain should not repeat, ever. As an explorer I want to find that 1 in a thousand (or 1 in a million) diamond-in-the-rough, where all those procgen numbers align to give a planet that truly breaks new ground. The PROCGEN is what David Braben hung his hat on, to much acclaim, and deservedly so. The change to the terrain generation is a considerable downgrade IMO - copy-pasta tiles at numerous scale levels. For me, there's no point to exploration now, at least not the type of exploration I expect from true procgen. In Odyssey, after the initial wow factor is gone, all it delivers is a cookie cutter experience with lots of glitter but unfortunately not much substance.
The first two days on Odyssey for me was - wow, this is great! The vibrant colours, the huge crater rays covering half a planet, the massive regions of what I'd call "mozaic clay tiles" (see shots above), the biomes including icy poles on landables. All the completely new and wonderful stuff. And I concentrated on the atmospheric landables which are truly gorgeous.
Then, after a few days, reality set in.
The huge craters with their massive rays look copy-pasta, and not very believable. I've seen so many now they are starting to grate.
The "mozaic clay tile" regions are far too common. Again I see them ALL the time, with no real variation.
Deep canyons appear to be (almost) gone. I know some explorers have found some, so that's good, but there are far too many planets with only shallow terrain.
Large mountains appear to be (almost) gone. I'm aware this is by design as Dr. Ross has explained.
Then, after a few more days, I spent time going back and forth between Odyssey and Horizons, comparing. In particular I've been looking at terrain tile patterns and their rarity.
My conclusion regarding terrain tiles:
In Odyssey, every HMC and Rocky planet uses very obvious repetitive terrain tiles. I haven't found a single HMC or Rocky that doesn't have them. 20-40 km altitude is when they're most obvious IMO, but there are often repetitions at different scales too, as seen many times in this thread. Note that I haven't looked at other planet types yet, only Rocky and HMC.
In Horizons, I cannot find repetitions at any scale. The terrain appears very much chaotic. It feels real, with one-off mountains and varied canyons and other very unique terrain. However it doesn't have the biomes of Odyssey, and going back to Horizons now, that's a stark difference in Odyssey's favour.
My overall general feelings (without my explorer hat on)...
At a cursory glance, most planets in Odyssey LOOK better. Many look glorious. The atmospheric landables are to die for. My first impression of most Odyssey planets has been that they look amazing - the new terrain types and biomes especially. But that impression has certainly faded over the last few days due to the repetition, and not just the tile repetition, but also lack of variation in the new terrain types.
And in terms of verisimilitude, Horizons wins. Some Horizons planets have wow factor (as we all know), but all seem to have that terrain variation that's needed to make the planet feel right.
Finally, with my explorer hat on...
I think Odyssey planets have failed. The whole premise of ED is supposed to be PROCEDURAL GENERATION - that terrain should not repeat, ever. As an explorer I want to find that 1 in a thousand (or 1 in a million) diamond-in-the-rough, where all those procgen numbers align to give a planet that truly breaks new ground. The PROCGEN is what David Braben hung his hat on, to much acclaim, and deservedly so. The change to the terrain generation is a considerable downgrade IMO - copy-pasta tiles at numerous scale levels. For me, there's no point to exploration now, at least not the type of exploration I expect from true procgen. In Odyssey, after the initial wow factor is gone, all it delivers is a cookie cutter experience with lots of glitter but unfortunately not much substance.
Planetary tech Horizons 2015
People dont have memory.
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Elite: Dangerous – Developer Frontier Responds to Downgrade Reports
Elite: Dangerous – Developer Frontier Responds to Downgrade Reports
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