New Planet Tech is KILLER of Exploration (all terrain is tiling/repeating/not procedural/random)

Just

Just
[VR] Amy Pendergast said:
Sorry to sound rude, but that's IMHO exactly the attitude of us gamers which enable companies like Frontier make do with such a mess :)
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I agree.
Being a "white knight" does not in any way imply being pleased with the state of EDO and Frontier's perpetual series of (will be censored anyway).

I am as angry as the "whiners",
but we have learned by experience, that FD needs a lot of time to make any major changes working as indented.
 

CMDR Sheehy

CMDR Sheehy
Phoenix195 said:
Proc Gen also produces its own kind of repeated patterns. You can see this all the time in No Man's Sky which is supposed to be all Proc Gen.

Example- Fauna. All the fauna are made from the same primitive ruleset so they end up looking very similar from one world to the next. Many worlds have repeated features such as rock arches and mountains that look almost the same on the same world.

I think some repeated patterns here and there are more than outweighed by the much more realistic looking planet surfaces.
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Funny enough, I was wondering why the palm trees in Orlando, Florida look very similar to the ones in Yaffo, Israel...
 

Sakashiro

Sakashiro
Phoenix195 said:
Example- Fauna. All the fauna are made from the same primitive ruleset so they end up looking very similar from one world to the next. Many worlds have repeated features such as rock arches and mountains that look almost the same on the same world.
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Keywords here are "similar" and "almost". ProcGen in Horizons also produced a lot of similar looking terrain, but it was almost impossible to spot repetitions. Planets felt "samey" but not the same. Prefabs easily produce more interesting terrain than noise functions, but once you recognize the prefabs because they repeat, suspension of disbelief falls off a cliff.
 

Allin

A
Ohanka said:
When the new planet tech works, it works spectacularly.

x5AdpTI.png


This planet is great. Very varied. It has flat lands, then it has stuff like this. Also very deep canyons, 2km high mountains, it's great.

Unfortunately, for me this has been very much the exception to the norm.

I don't think every planet should be great, but there are clear issues with the system.
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And truth be told it doesn't look that different from the current tech, like at all. Your feeling is better due to the "atmosphere" light scattering rather than actual visual fidelity.
 
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CMDR Crustatious Cornelius Pig

CMDR Crustatious Cornelius Pig
anthonycsheehy said:
I don't believe you are sorry at all. ;)

I've developed applications so I know the pain.

I was there for ED from the Beta. People say it should never have been released back then. It was a shambles the first week.

I was there for EDH. People moaned so much that had to back away from realism to please the crowd. It was a mess the first week.

EDO... shrugs.

Is it the same for other games. I watched what happened for NMS. I see the complete mound of doo doo that is the other Space Sim. Train Sim World 2 had broken stuff when it first hit the rails. RDR2 - I'm still being told that I'm going to catch the death of a cold in camp nearly a year after the bug was introduced...

This is life. What's not the same is the increased levels of vitriol that people think is now okay because they have not met anyone face to face so we have forgotten what it's like to see someone's work, pride, and joy stamped into the ground and spat on, in the flesh.

Companies make mess. People mess up. I hope one day, when you mess up (we all do it) that people don't treat you the same way some people on this forum have the developers. I truly don't.

I'm proud to say that I have a glass, and I will fill it with my own whiskey if need be and drink to their health and long life!
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All true Commander
 

fourrunes

F
Sakashiro said:
Keywords here are "similar" and "almost". ProcGen in Horizons also produced a lot of similar looking terrain, but it was almost impossible to spot repetitions. Planets felt "samey" but not the same. Prefabs easily produce more interesting terrain than noise functions, but once you recognize the prefabs because they repeat, suspension of disbelief falls off a cliff.
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I think this is the best description of the situation so far.
 

Ohanka

O
Allin said:
And truth be told it doesn't look that different from the current tech, like at all. Rounded up slopes for a rocky world are actually a step back. Your feeling is better due to the "atmosphere" rather than actual visual fidelity.
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I think that may be a view distance or rendering issue. The slopes were not slopes up close.

Like i said though this planet (moon with an atmosphere really, awesome view of the ringed giant though) was the exception and not the norm.

Ice planets in particular have been a rollercoaster ride of disappointment.
 

thistle

T
Allin said:
And truth be told it doesn't look that different from the current tech, like at all. Your feeling is better due to the "atmosphere" light scattering rather than actual visual fidelity.
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The detail at ground level is completely different from Horizons. It has to be to make first person work. Same in the hangars, superficially it can look the same but the textures are designed to be seen from human height rather than the ships.

edit -for example, https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-great-big-odyssey-screenshots-thread.568114/post-9225907

Compared to the jaggy textures pre Odyssey, eg this from much higher off the ground:
 
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PuffyEichhorst

PuffyEichhorst
Due to my bad internet connection atm i waited with the purchase of Odyssey and what should i say?
I was really looking for some new exploration content but if it's just a rinse and repeat gameplay loop i have to say no.

Who had this amazing idea to make discovering repeatable?
My problems with the internet will take a while..like my thoughts about odyssey...
 

thistle

T
PuffyEichhorst said:
Due to my bad internet connection atm i waited with the purchase of Odyssey and what should i say?
I was really looking for some new exploration content but if it's just a rinse and repeat gameplay loop i have to say no.

Who had this amazing idea to make discovering repeatable?
My problems with the internet will take a while..like my thoughts about odyssey...
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Don't go by these doom thread, watch people playing and landing on amazing planets. Are some bugged? Sure looks like it. Are most new planets much better than horizons? Yes.
 

Mr Swainey

Banned
Mr Swainey
When I approach a planet though it's a bit dark on this side of it I can see it's surface - there is light to see it. But, once it drops to glide, surface is in darkness.
 

SpaceIsHuge

SpaceIsHuge
Merkir said:
Of course she didn't use the term "handcrafted tiles". That term is being used here mostly for simplicity, partly for hyperbole. You need to think carefully about what Dr. Ross means when she said, "we're talking up 100km worth of terrain for example, which are now generated offline into terrain shapes that we know are formed."

If "handcrafted tiles" concerns you so much, just go back in this thread and replace every occurrence of "handcrafted tiles" with "terrain shapes generated offline."
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So how generated offline means handcrafted? It just means that this procgen is too complex for real time calculations, so they calculated it offline on powerful network of pcs. Its like pre rendering (blender, maya, 3ds max, etc) vs realtime rendering (games).
 

SpaceIsHuge

SpaceIsHuge
fourrunes said:
Don't you guys see where this is going?

When you start talking about assets in an almost infinite galaxy - there is no escaping what we are seeing here. Or at least, it's going to be very very very hard to get away with it without introducing some chaos into the assets shapes themselves.
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Btw why not? Universe repeats itself too. Its all based on laws, Mars parts looks similar to Earth, etc.. There were interesting news recently:

“Using an instrument called the multi-unit spectroscopic explorer, or MUSE, we were able to assess the metal ratios of the stars in its thick and thin discs. They were pretty much the same as those in the Milky Way – ancient stars in the thick disc, younger stars in the thin one. We’re looking at some other galaxies to make sure, but that’s pretty strong evidence that the two galaxies evolved in the same way.”

UGC 10738 investigation reveals mysterious origins of the Milky Way

Scientists have revealed the origins of the Milky Way, indicating that our home galaxy evolved gradually instead of in a violent collision.
www.innovationnewsnetwork.com www.innovationnewsnetwork.com


Also this.

They said SPT0418-47 is "surprisingly unchaotic" — contradictory to prevailing theories that all young galaxies are "turbulent and unstable" compared to more mature galaxies like the Milky Way.

"What we found was quite puzzling; despite forming stars at a high rate, and therefore being the site of highly energetic processes, SPT0418-47 is the most well-ordered galaxy disc ever observed in the early Universe," co-author Simona Vegetti, from MPI, said in a press release Wednesday. "This result is quite unexpected and has important implications for how we think galaxies evolve."

"The big surprise was to find that this galaxy is actually quite similar to nearby galaxies, contrary to all expectations from the models and previous, less detailed, observations,"

www.cbsnews.com

Astronomers find "Milky Way look-alike" baby galaxy 12 billion light years from Earth

The galaxy appears as a near-perfect ring of light — a so-called "Einstein Ring."
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com
 
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