New Planet Tech is KILLER of Exploration (all terrain is tiling/repeating/not procedural/random)

Odysey has a lot of faults, and the current VR implementation exacerbates them:
  • Having the on foot stuff rendered in a floating FLAT screen in 2D that looks like looking at a through a letterbox from inside a brightly light room, that is often brighter than the scene on display, actually hinders playing the game.
  • Because of the fact the floating flat screen is rendered at a distance it doesn't fill the field of view, it is thus effectively much lower resolution than native VR would be.
  • As a result of the virtual flat screen's effective downsampling of the game scene a lot of the details are little more than a blurry mosaic, lassuming you could see them with the eyes natural dynamic range being saturated by the overly bright "grey burqa". This creates the potential for players to experience eyestrain trying to squint through the mosaic and or the dynamic range.
  • The limited perceived resolution arising from the floating flat screen, combined with Odyssey's inherent system demands creates a scenario where you are roasting your PC and still the on foot sections look something like a PS1 game. This happens because VR is inherently demanding, and Odyssey is so seriously un optimised its like demanding cubed.
  • It's made worse by the fact that this Grey Burqa --> "virtual flat screen" doesn't move with head motion creating the very motion sickness it was meant to prevent, so it isn't doing any good.
TL: DR -
Playing Odyssey in VR is like playing Doom Eternal but then suddenly for a bunch of levels it forces you to play them in the original 1993 Doom engine, on your phone's screen held up in front of stuff, while spinning in a centrifuge.

Not a good look for the game which literally convinced everyone I know with a VR setup to buy into the tech.
 
Dude, will you take five minutes and read this? There's a lot of things that are intertwined that coalesce into why I am so brutally critical of Odyssey and so determined to get VR into a game that I seemingly despise. I know on the face of them those two postions might seem paradoxically opposed to each other, but I'm going to explain to you why they are actually two sides of the same coin, but it's a complex issue so it's going to take a good few words to explain, especially if I am to describe it in such a way that anyone reading this, be they a VR player or someone who has never donned a headset will understand..

Odysey has a lot of faults, and the current VR implementation exacerbates them:
  • Having the on foot stuff rendered in a floating FLAT screen in 2D that looks like looking at a through a letterbox from inside a brightly light room, that is often brighter than the scene on display, actually hinders playing the game.
  • Because of the fact the floating flat screen is rendered at a distance it doesn't fill the field of view, it is thus effectively much lower resolution than native VR would be.
  • As a result of the virtual flat screen's effective downsampling of the game scene a lot of the details are little more than a blurry mosaic, lassuming you could see them with the eyes natural dynamic range being saturated by the overly bright "grey burqa". This creates the potential for players to experience eyestrain trying to squint through the mosaic and or the dynamic range.
  • The limited perceived resolution arising from the floating flat screen, combined with Odyssey's inherent system demands creates a scenario where you are roasting your PC and still the on foot sections look something like a PS1 game. This happens because VR is inherently demanding, and Odyssey is so seriously un optimised its like demanding cubed.
  • It's made worse by the fact that this Grey Burqa --> "virtual flat screen" doesn't move with head motion creating the very motion sickness it was meant to prevent, so it isn't doing any good.
So we're now talking about a game that roasts the PC to render what looks like low res mess from the nineties / early naughties in such a way that it induces motion sickness syptoms like headache and nausea. This all stems from a design design to nix the native VR that is still in the game*. (Explanation of VR still in the game in the following inline spoiler) FYI in the early days of Odyssey if you went into the vanity camera in VR on foot it switched the display mode from the grey bubble and virtual flatscreen to actual VR with stereo 3D display and head tracking. And a lot of players were essentially positioning the vanity camera on their avatars visor and playing like that, however it didn't show huds or gun sights or stuff like that, and IIRC it's been removed in subsequent updates. And having that sort of play through experience with it's perceived low res, roasty hot over worked computer, headache and sickness and or eyestrain from squinting to try and see through the mosaic, breeds nothing but contempt for this expansion.

The alternative of having to tab out of game screen to main menu into settings, disable the VR, remove the headset, play the on foot stuff on monitor, go to ship, settings, enable vr, don headset, spend 5 minutes faffing about to get it back in the optical sweetspot and recentred, then go fly, next planet / star port when I want to leave the pilots seat, go back to menu and start this whole rigmarole again. You can probably picture how much fun that would be over a couple of hours of mission running? Yep, it's a massive impediment to the enjoyment, so even this option is detrimental to my game experience.

A final option is to just play the game on monitor, for all it's faults VR is immersive AF, and really puts you in the game, leaving VR behind moving forward with Elite would be a massive downgrade in experience.

Whatever way I look at it, as a result of the way VR is implemented in Odyssey playing Odyssey is not an enjoyable experience, and that is why I am so disdainful of EDO.

So now we've covered the reasons behind the "hate", lets close this out by asking why I keep bleating on about how they should give us proper VR headlook on foot minus hand controls. I believe that a decent VR headlook on foot would solve most of those problems I listed earlier. Specifically, in order:
  • Doing away with the floating screen and its grey surround resolves the dynamic range issue
  • Rendering the game view direct to headset as first person headlook removes the current effective downsampling we experience
  • Removing the floating flat screen and its associated perceived downsampling of the game removes the eyestrain inducing need to squint through the mosaic currently experienced by VR players
  • Actually seeing the game rendered at native resolution would make the unoptimized unrealistic system demands more palatable
  • Restoring actual headlook, with head tracking would resolve the nausea triggering disconnect between the head movement of the player and the absence of movement of the rendered view portal into the game world.
So yeah, TLDR: my "hating on Odyssey" isn't just sour grapes, or being a narcisistic troll, it's based on the level of frustration I experience when I try to play EDO because of how badly the VR implementation we currently have impacts my player experience. And my insistance on VR headlook on foot? That is because I genuinely believe it would mitigate most of the irritations I currently experience with Odyssey as I have explained above, if nothing else, just read the two sets of bullet points.
Let's recap:

- in a thread about the tiling of planetary features you say "EDO planetary tech behaves like a shipyard sex worker if you slip them a stack of twenties, aye, it sucks THAT much" and "YAY! we can go play capture the flag on those goofed up planets! Right on, What the FDEV!". Someone who has changed their name to "NoVR - What_The_X_F_Dev".

- you think writing an essay about what we already know - you don't like the current vr implementation - explains or excuses the attitude and disrespect for the devs? Nah. This thread doesn't even have anything to do with the VR implementation. Hence my question above - why does EDO still need VR (as your sig and avatar demand) when you dislike everything ELSE so intensely, to the extent you insult the devs on a non VR related topic?
 
Geez I so agree there Thristle.. I mean.. Yes.. Sadly it is time to use the block function. There is enough vitrol in my life already. This guy does not know what enough is.
 
Or, in other words, get over yourself.
Don't worry, be happy.

Untitled10.jpg
 
I only came on tonight to briefly say bah humbug and happy new year and seen your, response, and I'm conflicted on how to handle it. you asked a question, I took the time to answer it in detail and you flamed me, immeidate response would be rant back, but it's christmas, so I dunno.
Let's recap:

- in a thread about the tiling of planetary features you say "EDO planetary tech behaves like a shipyard sex worker if you slip them a stack of twenties, aye, it sucks THAT much" and "YAY! we can go play capture the flag on those goofed up planets! Right on, What the FDEV!". Someone who has changed their name to "NoVR - What_The_X_F_Dev".
I said those things because of my greivances with EDO.
- you think writing an essay about what we already know - you don't like the current vr implementation - explains or excuses the attitude and disrespect for the devs?
If sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, given the contemptuous way the company has blatantaly ignored or dismissed VR players (read passionate cash rich customers) do you really expect me and or other exapserated VR players to be sycophantic?
Nah. This thread doesn't even have anything to do with the VR implementation.
The thread itself has nowt to do with VR , but underlying frustrations with the game arising from it's VR implementaiton that I explained to you shift my disposition from one which might respond to the criticism of the terrain generation from "oh well it's one of the things that will hopefully get fixed" to "oh foxtrot foxtrot sierra".
Hence my question above - why does EDO still need VR (as your sig and avatar demand) when you dislike everything ELSE so intensely, to the extent you insult the devs on a non VR related topic?
I took an hour to explain thatby "writing an essay" explaining in detail exactly where I'm coming from and why I dislike EDO but think I'd be alot more amenable to it were it to have VR that didn't use the damned grey burqa that spoils my game experience. That was no mean undertaking given I'm still learning your language. If you didn't read that or can't comprehend what I said I suggest we follow frop's suggestion and ignore each other. Whether we block each other or not, I wish you all the best for the holidays and the coming year of 3308/2022.
 
So... Viewing that video, and happening to be on Mitterand's Hollow (which is showcased in the video) right now, because of following current events, it is immediately apparent that the cranking of the saturation a few updates ago has had a great effect on that place: Instead of the initial drab, uniform gray, the moon now has whisps in many shades of the same, threading their ways though fields of rich reds and oranges, and the poles have distinct ice caps.

(I am using some sharpening, mind, which adds contrast and saturation.)

As for the "molten ice cream" look... This may be down to the particular sequence of planets I have been visiting over time, but I got a sense this was kind of dealt with in... I don't recall anymore - update 7 or 8 - I think 7, as long as one had sufficient supersampling, but then lost again in the following one. (Something like this has happened once before: I had promising looking terrain in 5, and then it got worse in 6.)

In 7-or-if-it-was-8 texturing of the ice planet I was on at the time really looked quite "to scale" to me, provided I played with maxed out HMD Quality (supersampling for VR users) -- shiny features seen from the air had begun to project a sense of distant expanses - as if I saw the "sum" of rich detail that is too far away and small on the screen to resolve, but now it appears we're back to the "fleshy" specular roundness that makes them look like vaccuformed scale models...

I don't think the wierd "velvety" behaviour that many surfaces exhibit ever went away, though, and so much landscape on all scales still looks like stucko, or trowelled tiling grout, more than anything else...
 
and still nothing to show for it. 9 months later. Still the same apart they managed to put back some canyons and your please with the arx system giveaways.
 
When i first saw this thread, i was horrified, but eventually i got Odyssey all the same, and at first, i was surprised: I like many of the new planetary features, even if there are the sharp ridges from Horizons missing. But now and again i see planets, where all of the worst issues seem to come together, and it is quite sobering. Today i visited Lei Cheung in Laksak, and i saw this:

Mountains.jpg


This mountain is repeated identically again and again up to the horizon in every direction, even more obvious from higher altitude. This really is disillusioning, not only for explorers.
I know, it is nothing new, but i just want to remind of this issue again.
 
When i first saw this thread, i was horrified, but eventually i got Odyssey all the same, and at first, i was surprised: I like many of the new planetary features, even if there are the sharp ridges from Horizons missing. But now and again i see planets, where all of the worst issues seem to come together, and it is quite sobering. Today i visited Lei Cheung in Laksak, and i saw this:

View attachment 282833

This mountain is repeated identically again and again up to the horizon in every direction, even more obvious from higher altitude. This really is disillusioning, not only for explorers.
I know, it is nothing new, but i just want to remind of this issue again.
Some people don't care about repeating patterns or copy & pasted mountains like you found, and new players who came to Elite because of Odyssey, and thus haven't seen some of the wonderful Horizons era POIs, won't know any different anyway, and likewise won't care. Frontier will cater the game to those players, as the former are easily pleased, and more importantly in the case of the latter, its new money.

The bulk of the Horizons era community has dwindled away, and I seriously doubt Fdev care enough to win them back. So don't expect this issue to ever be addressed, because; 1. Plenty of players don't care that its an issue, and 2. New players to Elite won't know any different in any case once Horizons is erased from memory... (edit: and 3. its probably too technically difficult to get the new tech working well on the consoles that Fdev will only take the so called "fixes" so far anyway).
 
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I only came on tonight to briefly say bah humbug and happy new year and seen your, response, and I'm conflicted on how to handle it. you asked a question, I took the time to answer it in detail and you flamed me, immeidate response would be rant back, but it's christmas, so I dunno.

I said those things because of my greivances with EDO.

If sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, given the contemptuous way the company has blatantaly ignored or dismissed VR players (read passionate cash rich customers) do you really expect me and or other exapserated VR players to be sycophantic?

The thread itself has nowt to do with VR , but underlying frustrations with the game arising from it's VR implementaiton that I explained to you shift my disposition from one which might respond to the criticism of the terrain generation from "oh well it's one of the things that will hopefully get fixed" to "oh foxtrot foxtrot sierra".

I took an hour to explain thatby "writing an essay" explaining in detail exactly where I'm coming from and why I dislike EDO but think I'd be alot more amenable to it were it to have VR that didn't use the damned grey burqa that spoils my game experience. That was no mean undertaking given I'm still learning your language. If you didn't read that or can't comprehend what I said I suggest we follow frop's suggestion and ignore each other. Whether we block each other or not, I wish you all the best for the holidays and the coming year of 3308/2022.
Or 'why I feel entitled to insult the devs', chapter 18.
 
Or 'why I feel entitled to insult the devs', chapter 18.
I've never said a word against the developers, ever. Indeed I challenge you to find any quote anywhere where I say anything against the developers, or the CM's. However, when it comes to their product, and the management decisions shaping it, I call it like I see it, and I've explained why my view may be somewhat coloured WRT Odyssey.
 
Maybe its to do with the poorly way Fdev implemented VR in EDO
I agree - they should have stuck to their original plans and dropped VR support for EDO altogether, that would have been so much better!
As it is, the VR in EDO is identical to EDH, I guess the VR heads with a gripe should be copmplaining how poor that VR support is also?
The question you should be thinking is, why so many die-hard ED CMDR's & Elite focused Youtubers have dropped ED after Odyssey?.
Youtubers follow the 'money' - even I get 'suggestions' from youtube on what I should be screening to gain viewers, and it isn't ED.
As for the die-hard commanders? Obviously, they aren't, are they? (think about it)

Oh, gosh! I forgot, I play ED / EDO in VR also... Somehow I can't bring myself to act like a pre-adolescent over it. :eek:
 
Oh, gosh! I forgot, I play ED / EDO in VR also... Somehow I can't bring myself to act like a pre-adolescent over it. :eek:
But Rat Catcher, it's super important and a very sensible and serious topic that you can't go VR on foot (while you can still do it everywhere else like before and they never dropped VR for EDO, but only didn't implement it for walking around)!

(sorry, I had to)
 
Over 200 pages. Wow.

Currently loving the new terrain, massive improvement over Horizons. Maybe there is tiling on the planets i've visited, never seen anything like in the screenshots/videos people are posting. Either im lucky or people are going to out of their way to find this sort of thing.

Anyway, as i recall, FD have acknowledged it as an issue, so maybe there will be improvements at some point.

I feel like FD need to address performance most though. Some repeating patterns isn't usually a reason to get upset, but bad frame rates certainly is.
 
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