New ship: Panther Clipper

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

If you don't want to play the colonization mini-game, then don't. If you don't want to buy the new ship, then don't. It's that simple.

Why are we even talking about colonization? This thread is about a new ship.

I can play this game too though. If you don't want big cargo haulers, don't. If you don't like ships for ARX, don't. If you don't want ships that can haul2-5k tons, don't. It's that simple.

Now do you want to have a discussion or just say pointless things?

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Can you provide in-game lore to explain the (pre-defined) logic & cohesion?

Quite serious as I don't recall anything in the game description that states, quite categorically, that only incremental advances are possible - nor in the CODEX, so where is it described?

If I have missed it somewhere, I'd like to read about it.

I know right? It's like they have a world-view they've forced on all of us for the game, and demand we live by it. Again, they don't even explain WHY a big cargo ship would be such a problem. It just "is", trust us bro. Because of umm CG's, or "reasons".

Logic and cohesion??? What is even meant by that...it's just a platitude with no foundation.

 

[Cheese Helmet]

I know right? It's like they have a world-view they've forced on all of us for the game, and demand we live by it. Again, they don't even explain WHY a big cargo ship would be such a problem. It just "is", trust us bro. Because of umm CG's, or "reasons".

Logic and cohesion??? What is even meant by that...it's just a platitude with no foundation.

This is just dishonest lmao.

Should Fdev add a ship with 4 huge hard points, that flies 700m/s, had big shields, strong hull, good jump range, tons of power, etc etc?

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

This is just dishonest lmao.

Should Fdev add a ship with 4 huge hard points, that flies 700m/s, had big shields, strong hull, good jump range, tons of power, etc etc?

You've basically just described the original Panther Clipper despite the hyperbole. So much for "logic and cohesion" when in literally the same universe as Elite Dangerous the Panther Clipper was bar-none the best option for nearly every activity in the game.

 

[DjVortex]

Should Fdev add a ship with 4 huge hard points, that flies 700m/s, had big shields, strong hull, good jump range, tons of power, etc etc?

Such a ship should have the speed and maneuverability of the Cobra Mk V, the cargo hauling capacity of four Panther Clippers, a jump range (when fully laden) twice that of an unladen Mandalay, twenty utility slots, 4 huge hard points and 8 big ones, a class 10 power distributor, and a hull that makes a fully engineered Corvette look like made of paper in comparison.

 

[Cheese Helmet]

You've basically just described the original Panther Clipper despite the hyperbole. So much for "logic and cohesion" when in literally the same universe as Elite Dangerous the Panther Clipper was bar-none the best option for nearly every activity in the game.

You didn't answer the question. Should we get a ship that has the most firepower, speed, tankiness, jump range, power, etc, be added to the game we have today?

 

[Rat Catcher]

Should we get a ship that has the most firepower, speed, tankiness, jump range, power, etc, be added to the game we have today?

It would make PvP combat something special to watch, provided one could stay awake long enough to see the conclusion...

Provided everyone could buy it for credits on the same day, it could be fascinating and change the face of the game entirely.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

You didn't answer the question. Should we get a ship that has the most firepower, speed, tankiness, jump range, power, etc, be added to the game we have today?

Because the question was stupid, because nobody is doing that. You're being hyperbolic. NOBODY is asking for that here. It just needed to haul more.

You're trying to illustrate absurdity with absurdity, but the problem is I'm not being absurd. My expectations are completely reasonable and well articulated and pretending I'm asking for Lord Vader's personal Star Destroyer in a World War II game is a waste of all of our time.

 

[Doctor Dread]

Such a ship should have the speed and maneuverability of the Cobra Mk V, the cargo hauling capacity of four Panther Clippers, a jump range (when fully laden) twice that of an unladen Mandalay, twenty utility slots, 4 huge hard points and 8 big ones, a class 10 power distributor, and a hull that makes a fully engineered Corvette look like made of paper in comparison.

You are slowly approaching the description of Cobra Mk IV.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

It would make PvP combat something special to watch, provided one could stay awake long enough to see the conclusion...

Provided everyone could buy it for credits on the same day, it could be fascinating and change the face of the game entirely.

He's already playing a game where the Cutter is the biggest cargo hauler, able to outrun everything but a handful of ships, has the biggest shield-tank in the game. Has offensive capability almost on-par with a Corvette. Has the biggest power plant you can get....hmmm did I leave anything out?

That's apparently all fine and we've accepted it for years. But don't DARE ask for something that can haul a few thousand tons of space-pixels. That's where they draw the line....

 

[Rat Catcher]

But don't DARE ask for something that can haul a few thousand tons of space-pixels

Sadly the players sometimes have dual standards, they wish for facets of the game to change for their benefit, but object vociferously if something is asked for that will benefit others not interested in their preferences.

And, oddly, it isn't just the Open Only whatever crowd. (so not taking a direct pop at anyone in particular - but I'm sure that regular contributors to this forum have asked for changes to suit their preferred play many times over the years)

ETA: Curiously, there was a 'request' for a 'special' to benefit miners just a few hours ago on the Frontier discord channel...(because the PCII has something 'special' added, others must have something too!)

 

[Cheese Helmet]

Because the question was stupid, because nobody is doing that. You're being hyperbolic. NOBODY is asking for that here. It just needed to haul more.

You're trying to illustrate absurdity with absurdity, but the problem is I'm not being absurd. My expectations are completely reasonable and well articulated and pretending I'm asking for Lord Vader's personal Star Destroyer in a World War II game is a waste of all of our time.

No, it's not absurd. It's illustrating that balance is in fact something that can be argued and isn't just something to be tossed aside for convenience.

 

[Cheese Helmet]

He's already playing a game where the Cutter is the biggest cargo hauler, able to outrun everything but a handful of ships, has the biggest shield-tank in the game. Has offensive capability almost on-par with a Corvette. Has the biggest power plant you can get....hmmm did I leave anything out?

That's apparently all fine and we've accepted it for years. But don't DARE ask for something that can haul a few thousand tons of space-pixels. That's where they draw the line....

Nerf cutter, I agree. But even still it's not the best at anything besides shield tanking.

It's actually not all fine and I don't want the game to continue in that direction, but hey you didn't ask, you just assumed, and we both know what happens when you assume.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I wasn't doing that and you know I wasn't....

If players don't want a large capacity ship there's a brilliant solution: use another ship or don't fill yours full of stuff. So see? How is that even comparable here?

We've well articulated exactly why we want a large hauler. You and others though never do the same for your position. You just say we're wrong, blurt out "balance" which is a slogan not a explanation, or invoke "P2W" which is just a complaint about monetization in general not feedback about the Panther Clipper.

it sounded like that to me.

and I have said multiple times why not! just because you do not think 1 ship 3x better at a role than any other ship at that role is an issue does not make it a valid worry.

it's the same reason why in let's say a football game I would not want a player in the game who had 100% extra pace over every other player in the game.
because it means that the existence of such a player takes the shine off every other player in the game .... and sure you could bench such a player but knowing he is there just devalues the rest.

or (and some game do do this) but a racing game where 1 car is massively superior than all the others in the garage. sure I could choose to pick an objectively inferior car, but I would feel a chump doing it. A me problem maybe but it also seems FD feels that way

which isn't to say FD are always right. I still think FD were wrong to have black markets show on the map before we find them, or to have it possible to get to Sag A within 24 hours of the game going into gamma. I had hoped that would take months or years, having to build out nav beacons before we could travel using the (at the time) new FSD technology.

but it is what it is.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Tell us you've ignored ALL feedback about Colonization without telling us. Like you aren't even trying at this point. It's borderline trolling to just claim it's because we don't want to fly our ships. That's just being so dismissive....

then request colonisation is improved... but ultimately if FD have decided it should be a group effort to build T2 or T3 stuff then it may not change

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

It would make PvP combat something special to watch, provided one could stay awake long enough to see the conclusion...

Provided everyone could buy it for credits on the same day, it could be fascinating and change the face of the game entirely.

just bring back the energy bomb after all it would be optional. oh after 4 months in the ARX store of course.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

He's already playing a game where the Cutter is the biggest cargo hauler, able to outrun everything but a handful of ships, has the biggest shield-tank in the game. Has offensive capability almost on-par with a Corvette. Has the biggest power plant you can get....hmmm did I leave anything out?

That's apparently all fine and we've accepted it for years. But don't DARE ask for something that can haul a few thousand tons of space-pixels. That's where they draw the line....

the cutter has a couple of percent more hauling ability than the T9. the PC is likely to have 50% more hauling ability than the cutter but that's not enough?! you are asking FD to throw everything under the bus because you don't like colonisation and want to minimise the time doing it as much as possible and to hell with all other trade.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

the cutter has a couple of percent more hauling ability than the T9. the PC is likely to have 50% more hauling ability than the cutter but that's not enough?! you are asking FD to throw everything under the bus because you don't like colonisation and want to minimise the time doing it as much as possible and to hell with all other trade.

The Cutter also has 28 t less capacity than the T-9 when shielded, is fast but turns like ass when moving, doesn't brake and is generally a chore to fly in anything but a straight line. I rather fly two loads in a T-8 than one in a Cutter. The only real thing it has going for it is the obscene amount of shielding you can achieve. Hardly the best ship in the game. Edit: And certainly far from the most fun ship in the game. YMMV of course.

 

[Rat Catcher]

you are asking FD to throw everything under the bus because you don't like colonisation and want to minimise the time doing it as much as possible and to hell with all other trade.

And I was asking FD for even more because I want to move cargo which usually is offered in 6K batches into safekeeping on my FC, so a refill of 18k which takes around 28 little jaunts in my Cutter might be reduced to 3 or 6 instead, giving me more time to do the things I like more, while having a FC full of (virtually) free Tritium, or maybe Palladium or Gold...

FD decided that the PCII shouldn't be too good, so we get just over 1K, their game, their decisions. Our time...

I'd already decided to abandon Colonisation efforts if the PCII didn't deliver a major boost to cargo capacity. So nothing to change that decision was offered, such is life.

 

[Chroniclerope]

it sounded like that to me.

and I have said multiple times why not! just because you do not think 1 ship 3x better at a role than any other ship at that role is an issue does not make it a valid worry.

it's the same reason why in let's say a football game I would not want a player in the game who had 100% extra pace over every other player in the game.
because it means that the existence of such a player takes the shine off every other player in the game .... and sure you could bench such a player but knowing he is there just devalues the rest.

or (and some game do do this) but a racing game where 1 car is massively superior than all the others in the garage. sure I could choose to pick an objectively inferior car, but I would feel a chump doing it. A me problem maybe but it also seems FD feels that way

which isn't to say FD are always right. I still think FD were wrong to have black markets show on the map before we find them, or to have it possible to get to Sag A within 24 hours of the game going into gamma. I had hoped that would take months or years, having to build out nav beacons before we could travel using the (at the time) new FSD technology.

but it is what it is.

By this argument, everything other than the side winder, hauler and eagle should be removed.