No Single Player Offline Mode then? [Part 2]

[CrazyDanStarman]

When i do not disconnect every 10 Minutes, i have no Problem with it!
But at Beta3 it was much pain in the ass!
Half FPS, much laags and no fun to Play in a Public Hub.

Hope its better on release!

 

[mbpoblet]

Reasoning is all well and good, but not as good as proof.

Definitely, it isn't intended to be proof, far from it, just to demonstrate that Frontier's excuses can be reasonably doubted, particularly as long as we assume that their developers are good at their jobs (which, to me, seems like a pretty safe assumption).

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Uh... I think you should probably read my post again...

You are right, I did not fully read your post.

Did you see the part about Crowdfunding in the link I put in? The crowd funding is done to raise the capital to cover the cost of the give-away. However, the Elite Dangerous KS campaign was never envisaged to cover this, was it, otherwise it may have had a higher target and then would have been unreachable. Was the DRM-free promise a promise that implicitly said "Go, copy and spread the news..."

 

[kwh]

Um... could you link to this alleged post stating the opposite as mine? I can't seem to recall it or find it, sorry. Thanks in advance.

As for your question, you asked for "a statement to the contrary for the reasoning behind the persistent connection", and I provided you with mine, simple as that. *shrug*

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It would be quite silly not to...

Nobody will pirate an online only client, because it is of no use whatsoever without access to the associated online service, that there is de-facto DRM. You could include an offline mode in the online client which would get it pirated, but piracy has its own problems - endemic malware, dodgy cracks, bad experiences, your potential future players being hounded by organisations like FAST, etc etc. Far better to release the offline game as adware, so people can legally download it with your blessing from your official distribution site rather than from some trojan infested warez site. And that enables you to keep reminding them about what they are missing in the multi user version, roll relevant bugfixes & enhancements to the online client out to the offline game as well, and hopefully keep growing both the potential & the actual customer base...

 

[Wyzak]

Well if the big giants are anything to go by, the next move in IP is a <drum roll> subscription, not give it to all for free and hope someone stumps the bill.

Either that, or F2P with P2W when the funds dry up after 6 months.

 

[poet1960]

What really baffles me, is the seeming inability of some people to comprehend what it's all about. So in order to mitigate the emotions involved with the game itself, I will put it in a different context.

Let's say I wanted to make a cake. So I go out into the wild world and look for backers. At first I say I want to make a chocolate cake, but I'm falling a little short of my goals, so I decide to tell people I am going to also make a vanilla cake for those who like vanilla, and voila, I reach my funding goal.

As time goes by, I spend most of my time working on the chocolate cake because that was my original idea, but do spend at least some time on the vanilla. More time goes by and more and more effort is being put into the chocolate cake. Eventually I realize I will not be able to deliver the vanilla cake, and at the last minute, announce that I will not be able to fulfill this obligation to the people who backed the vanilla cake, and then turn around and say, "well I can't make a good vanilla cake, and besides, chocolate is better anyway."

How do you think the people who wanted the vanilla cake will feel about it? Then, to make matters worse, those who like chocolate better than vanilla, start harassing the vanilla people because they had the audacity to complain about not getting what they thought they were paying for.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Definitely, it isn't intended to be proof, far from it, just to demonstrate that Frontier's excuses can be reasonably doubted, particularly as long as we assume that their developers are good at their jobs (which, to me, seems like a pretty safe assumption).

Assumption and reasoning? These can be used to 'prove' anything but are highly subjective. To suggest that FDev are fraudulent or lying based on these is highly shaky ground. And if I say I don't buy in to your explanation, you have no choice but to say that we should agree to disagree. Shall we?

 

[NE1]

Er, we'd still have a game. So... no. (Not sure that analogy worked somehow... confused.)

so all MMO players would accept a offline only game. I think not!
we would be onto [part 10] thread already if that had happened.

 

[Wyzak]

So in this light you are effectively associating a sign on with DRM. Pray tell, dear sir, how that is 'infecting their product' or 'introducing points of failure' seeing there is actually no code included to break?

If the authentication servers go down (permanently or temporary), so does the game.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Nobody will pirate an online only client, because it is of no use whatsoever without access to the associated online service, that there is de-facto DRM. You could include an offline mode in the online client which would get it pirated, but piracy has its own problems - endemic malware, dodgy cracks, bad experiences, your potential future players being hounded by organisations like FAST, etc etc. Far better to release the offline game as adware, so people can legally download it with your blessing from your official distribution site rather than from some trojan infested warez site. And that enables you to keep reminding them about what they are missing in the multi user version, roll relevant bugfixes & enhancements to the online client out to the offline game as well, and hopefully keep growing both the potential & the actual customer base...

Okay - still not in with the economics of this. If they planned that from the start, I could get it. I agree with you. It is like Microsoft giving office away for free on the iPad. You then buy a *subscription* and get full access.

That there is not DRM, it is a subscription or, put another way, it could be described as SAAS, seeing the client is not the software that you install, you only install the loader. The sign in is not to authenticate the software that is installed on the PC, but to access your subscription, download updates, etc. etc.

 

[Wyzak]

Stop whining.

No offline single player... who cares? I doubt anyone of you would play this game offline, alone in a static universe. It's like buying a car but complaining about the fuel you need.
You need internet for updating the game anyway so what's the problem?

You're obviously new to Elite.

 

[mbpoblet]

Assumption and reasoning? These can be used to 'prove' anything but are highly subjective. To suggest that FDev are fraudulent or lying based on these is highly shaky ground. And if I say I don't buy in to your explanation, you have no choice but to say that we should agree to disagree. Shall we?

Sure, I have no problem at all disagreeing, it makes for good and interesting conversation.

As I said, though, I'm not trying to prove anything, besides the possibility of reasonable doubt.

Actual proof will happen when someone reverse engineers a mock server, probably, as happened with SimCity (and further when fully functional third party servers are developed, which will happen if the game generates enough interest).

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

What really baffles me, is the seeming inability of some people to comprehend what it's all about. So in order to mitigate the emotions involved with the game itself, I will put it in a different context.

Let's say I wanted to make a cake. So I go out into the wild world and look for backers. At first I say I want to make a chocolate cake, but I'm falling a little short of my goals, so I decide to tell people I am going to also make a vanilla cake for those who like vanilla, and voila, I reach my funding goal.

As time goes by, I spend most of my time working on the chocolate cake because that was my original idea, but do spend at least some time on the vanilla. More time goes by and more and more effort is being put into the chocolate cake. Eventually I realize I will not be able to deliver the vanilla cake, and at the last minute, announce that I will not be able to fulfill this obligation to the people who backed the vanilla cake, and then turn around and say, "well I can't make a good vanilla cake, and besides, chocolate is better anyway."

How do you think the people who wanted the vanilla cake will feel about it? Then, to make matters worse, those who like chocolate better than vanilla, start harassing the vanilla people because they had the audacity to complain about not getting what they thought they were paying for.

Old argument. Falls again at proof. There is no proof that December 11 actually increased funding. It's practically a straight line. I do like your analogy poetry, though. No more dead cats and sheds though. I feel for cats...

 

[quantumsheep]

Quick update for those seeking refunds here:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...und-policy-following-no-offline-mode-backlash

Hope that helps!

QS =D

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Actual proof will happen when someone reverse engineers a mock server, probably, as happened with SimCity (and further when fully functional third party servers are developed, if the game generates enough interest).

Agreed. -raises a glass-

 

[Wyzak]

But what's the point of that? There are enough offline games out there but ED clearly sets its focus on multiplayer. The first Elite game is 30 years old... Back then it was impossible to create a game like this and play it with thousands of players. If it had been possible i bet they would have done that.
Welcome to the 21st century.

Imagine the shoe was on the other foot... how would you have felt if they suddenly said that they couldn't get enough funding for the servers and because of that will be dropping multi-player and offering a single-player only game? That is exactly what they did to those who backed when the promise of offline was added.

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I have no problem with it, i am always online, i still can play solo. Times i dont have internet...is hrmm 1-2 days a year. So no big deal.

Was it promised..hmm wouldnt call it promise it was something they intended to do and dropped it because of mentioned problems. It was a kickstarter thing, you cant always keep what you intended to do when the project grows.

It was repeated over and over again on this forum and all over the show. Long after the kickstarter ended...

 

[Wyzak]

If you are talking about 'Always-on DRM' then you may find it all boils down to the reasoning for the persistent connection. The reason given for the persistent connection in Elite Dangerous, even for solo-mode, is for updates, not for checking who you are and whether you have access to that product or not.

That is factually incorrect. They have made it very clear that every single transaction and every single mission won't function without the internet connection. So it's not just for updates, it's for everything. Without it you will only be able to fly around alone in space.

 

[poet1960]

Old argument. Falls again at proof. There is no proof that December 11 actually increased funding. It's practically a straight line. I do like your analogy poetry, though. No more dead cats and sheds though. I feel for cats...

Everyone who backed the game because they offered offline play and would not have backed it otherwise, raise your hand.

 

[kwh]

Either that, or F2P with P2W when the funds dry up after 6 months.

This is the problem, I can see them selling a decent number of copies on launch because it looks epic & has much to recommend it. But once the launch hype has faded away and something else is the next great trendy thingy, natural wastage will be eating at the player base, and it's hard to see where new players come from. And if you want microtransactions to pay the server costs, you need a large live player base. Once the launch hype has died down, the only way Frontier has of gaining new players is to sell to them directly themselves through paid for advertising. Which is extremely expensive. Viral marketing is very cheap, if you can manage to make it happen, and it's self sustaining indefinitely. Also, ED is (one of the) killer app(s) for the Oculus Rift - can you imagine the marketing blast you'd get on Facebook's coat tails if the Elite Dangerous Lite offline version was given away free with every new Occulus Rift when it ships? Cue lots of new online MMO players funding the servers & future developments on an ongoing basis...

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Imagine the shoe was on the other foot... how would you have felt if they suddenly said that they couldn't get enough funding for the servers and because of that will be dropping multi-player and offering a single-player only game? That is exactly what they did to those who backed when the promise of offline was added.

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It was repeated over and over again on this forum and all over the show. Long after the kickstarter ended...

I'd be just as happy/unhappy. In the end, it's the game itself! If I had not internet, and learned that off-line had gone out the window, I'd be sad. I'd have written a snail mail letter directly to David Braben to convince him otherwise. Turns out in the end that not all is lost, there will be a review of the decision later on, and offline may actually come. Backing something like this has risks. If I can't afford to lose the money, I simply don't bet.