No Single Player offline Mode then?

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I'm assuming that what we have so far experienced is just the bare bones or placeholders for their dynamic galaxy. Assuming the infrastructure is already sound, we may get to witness the benefits of this system at gamma or even beta 3.9

If we don't then yeah I basically agree with everything you said and even the sarcasm ;)

what if it does not live up to the standards people made? as the newsletter implied there will be nothing more on launch but they promised to fill the gaps after launch
 
The galling thing for most people was throwing out as an aside in the middle of a PR piece and trying to spin it as a positive.

Yep, have to agree wholeheartedly with that, it could have been annouced in a better way, perhaps with an apology, and also with some more details on how much effort actually went into to trying to resolve the issues before the decision was made to can it.
 
I really wish the mods would just close this thread. Its gone around the same point about 4000 times now, and the predominant contributors have been extremely dismissive of even the staff's completely valid arguments, reasons, and viewpoints. And on more than one occasion, insinuations at legal action have been made (bordering on threats)... this is just plain childish.

your right people are very entrenched in the position
 
Apologies - I wasn't clear. Firstly, going back on a big decision like this would, in my opinion, be a big dent in their credibility (or further dent, depending on your view). Secondly, it would leave other past decisions relating to game content all the more disputable - ie, backers might feel they can get things previously decided on, changed. This, in turn, might lead to further unrest, etc, etc...

I'm afraid that can of worms has already been opened, and will be very difficult to close either way.

And I suspect this will be nothing compared to the reactions when the gamma and release feature sets become public, especially if they're handled as clumsily as they're handling this.

Frontier needs to rethink the way they handle public relations, or they'll dig themselves a hole they might not be able to get out of.
 
Isn't that just peachy? Targeted advertising, in your game! Is that an immersion-breaker, or what?

Thanks for this (original post in #3663). I would never imagine that gaming had reached such a new low. And I certainly wouldn't imagine FD to be the ones doing it.

So, there is no chance in hell I'll be playing an offline game. And now apparently, even if it turns out my connection should be adequate for online play, now I still can't because of ads. I hate ads with such a passion it's no longer fanatism but turned into a lifestyle.

Bad day turned worse. At least I didn't pledge, and now I can save the money on a game I wouldn't have endured more than 10 minutes (if that is how long it goes until first ad shows up).
 
Want your money back? Do something about it, stop dragging others down with you (as you seem to be intent on anyway, with your intention of withdrawing funds from the development company, due to your misunderstanding of ONE KEY LINE on the KS page).

You misunderstand that line. It is a risk warning in case the company goes bust or you dont like the gameplay. It does not however grant changing the pledge rewards at will. That is what this KEY LINE is for:

Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.)



So, they are legally bound to deliver a DRM free version, that means NO always online DRM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Always-on_DRM
 
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I really wish the mods would just close this thread. Its gone around the same point about 4000 times now, and the predominant contributors have been extremely dismissive of even the staff's completely valid arguments, reasons, and viewpoints. And on more than one occasion, insinuations at legal action have been made (bordering on threats)... this is just plain childish.

Time to give up the chase. Offline is NOT coming.
Want your money back? Do something about it, stop dragging others down with you (as you seem to be intent on anyway, with your intention of withdrawing funds from the development company, due to your misunderstanding of ONE KEY LINE on the KS page).


I, personally, want my positive beta forum back. I (and MANY others) want to keep testing, I (and MANY others) want to see the game succeed, while the pessimists here are convinced it has already failed.

I am guessing that you do know that clicking on the link to this discussion, let alone reading it, let alone even partaking in it, is completely optional.

This is one thread amongst hundreds, how hard is it for you to ignore?

Everyone not affected has to pay us a visit with their life changing words of wisdom, is that it?
 
You misunderstand that line. It is a risk warning in case the company goes bust or you dont like the gameplay. It does not however grant changing the pledge rewards at will. That is what this KEY LINE is for:

Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.)



So, they are legally bound to deliver a DRM free version, that means NO always online DRM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Always-on_DRM

+1

also, i still think that 90% of the backers STILL don't know anything about offline being pulled
 
As a kickstarter backer totally unaffected by these developments I am astounded at Frontiers decision and chosen method of announcement on this issue. I have held fire for a couple of days on posting on this issue because I really wanted to let it sink in and post a measured response accordingly.

As to the reasons the decision was made, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on that, however, as others have said, I am struggling to believe that it only became apparent that Single Offline wasn't viable in the last few days and this close to release. Surely it must have become apparent sometime ago that this was going to be the case, and as such, it should have been communicated to us, via the forums, and in the appropriate newsletter, as soon as it was so much as a possibility, let alone a 'tough decision made'.

Whether or not anything was 'promised' is fairly moot at this point, the point is that Frontier staff, (at least some culpability), and moderators, (not their fault), and the community at large thought there was the option of Single Offline still at 15:40 hours on Friday just gone, this is unacceptable. Whilst some of the people claiming they will take x, y or z legal action, report the issue, or in some way derail Frontiers launch event are, in my opinion, overeating, some of the people defending Frontier on this decision are equally as lamentable.

@ Frontier - You must realise, (and surely do), that crap sticks and becomes hard to wash off, some of those that have posted in this thread and others have been your most ardent backers and supporters, many of them have defended your policy and track record, sometimes rightly, sometimes not so much so. It was never their job to do so, nor was it requested by Frontier, however, do not underestimate what the good 'word of mouth' aspect has done for your name, your brand and your game. Also, do not underestimate how damaging it is or how long it will take to wash the stains out of the laundry from this mess of an announcement.

The omens are worrying to say the least now, we learn that the statement 'we are making the game we want to play' now actually reads, 'we are making a platform that may, one day, become the game we want to play'. We learn that a decent sized part of the proposed features may well permanently be on the cutting room floor, and, we have our faith shaken that if something as fundamental as an entire game mode can suddenly be 'not viable' then what next? It seems if something like that can be dropped then no proposal is safe, like it or not, some trust has gone Frontier, of course not from all, but from a percentage of fans, some heavily involved financially, be it in shares, pledge level or just 'word of mouth positives'. The problem is Frontier, that this is starting to smell like you are in a bit over your heads, be it financially or simply from an overreaching point of view, 'we will release when its ready' seems to have gone out of the window, it wasn't 'ready' before Fridays announcement and is even less 'ready' if fundamental features are being canned.

To those of you that cannot play without offline mode, or are at least affected by it, to a larger or smaller degree, you have my empathy and hopes that Frontier will change their minds on this, to posters arguing with those affected, some of you should take a step back and think, you really should. Many of us are backers of Elite Dangerous, very nearly all of us are supporters of Frontier, we of course can have differing views on Supercruise and mining, without doubt, but the rug being pulled out from under the feet of some of us affects us all, it may be you or me next, it may be a feature we consider vital next, it may be us asking for a refund if this happens again. We should stand as one here, a community united, because this has the potential to hurt us all.

enough said indeed - great post

Wait for FD's response
 
Again, respectfully, no. With sufficient outrage, they may reassess the costs and benefits of implementing offline mode.

I would be nice but I severely doubt it, other developers have done far worse than this, if they follow the norm then they will more likely just refund those affected as the costs of that would be far lower than effectively launching a second offline version, personally i think it sucks but i'd be amazed if anything changes. Just look at X, Star wars galaxies, prime examples of companies who alienated their customer base, in this case those alienated amount to about 10%. I for one have taken a step back and will give them a chance even if i can't do combat, i'll trade until i can, it's that or a refund and no elite, don't fancy that
 
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Now, we need to grieve and move on, but not lose track of the fact that Frontier made a complete mess of this.

That's a point of view, but I'm not convinced.

I didn't find Michael's reasons for dropping the off-line game particuarly compelling either.

"We've investigated the different ways we can do it and the simple answer is that we can't - not without compromising the game we're trying to make."

Compromising the game vs breaking your word?

That's a real dilemma, but what about option 3?

Okay, here goes..............

Don't compromise the multiplayer game.

Don't break your word.

Produce a separate off-line version, with all the dynamics of the on-line version set to static values, (yup, very easy for me to say) and accept the impact that has on gameplay.

Yes, it will cost you time and money to produce it. Take the hit. Elite will be a success, and you'll know you did the right thing by the backers, and so will they.

I'm not ruling out the possibility that Frontier will come to the conclusion that their annoucement has caused a great deal more upset than they supposed it would, and re-evaluate the situation.
 
I would be nice but I severely doubt it, other developers have done far worse than this, if they follow the norm then they will more likely just refund those affected as the costs of that would be far lower than effectively launching a second offline version, personally i think it sucks but i'd be amazed if anything changes. Just look at X, Star wars galaxies, prime examples of companies who alienated their customer base, in this case those alienated amount to about 10%.

Other developers hide behind big company logs like EA. David Braben's reputation is exposed here. We'll see how much he thinks it's worth.
 
Puh....the good thing is I didn´t play and have between reading Post Time for Family.....;)

To all this who said take the refund and GO....
Didn´t you see that if now the people which want offline now go reduce YOUR chance of getting ED and all the expansion dlc??????
Maybe you are right and there only lets say 2000 Kick/Alpha/Beta which leave....BUT after 16.12.2014 maybe will not come more new Players.
You ask why ... I suggest that all which like this Idea of Open Living Galaxy all ready Kick/Alpha/Beta Tester or make as least Pre-Order, to get a good start in the begining.
Completly new Players will check the possibility of playing Offline (Borderlands pre/1/2) or REAL SOLO (Diablo 3)... and if you dont believe check Actual Topseller ... yes there are some with an Multiplayer OPTION
(Bethesda make a not so successfully spin off .....but they Stll make RPGS Solo first). So say say no Offline ... ok Not for me.

So now explain how FD will get income to:
-Pay for Server
-Pay for making of the Expansion DLC
-General Maintance

Will you pay 250 Euro/Dollar/Pound what ever .... for the next expansion ?
Will you pay monthly for the Server/Maintance?

But as allways I will not get answer here....
 
Just read on reddit. That it will be good if they release server side application. So people will have opportunity to install their own world. But i am not sure that they do it. Greediness win any competitions. I just read closed answers from Michael Brookes . Basically after reading i have a feeling that his subliminal words were "We want to get money forever and will sale to all endless painted ships and coverages". I hope that i am not right.

They don't want to allow third party servers, apparently:

Michael, so what would it take hardware wise to run a "personal" server that you could connect to via LAN? I have a spare PC sitting around doing nothing or are we talking about needing terabytes of RAM and a dozen Xeon cores?

The problem here is that you'd have access to the server which isn't something we'd want to allow as it contains the secrets of the galaxy. Which was also an issue with an online version.

Michael
 
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I think what's most galling about it is how simplistic this "essential" cloud generated stuff seems to be. Have you ever had a mission that didn't look like randomly generated nonsense from a lookup table? Ever seen commodity transport work in any sophisticated way - even something rivaling, say, Railroad Tycoon from 1990? Truly, the majesty of their living galaxy is beyond the scope of even the mightiest PC today.

It's not that they need the cloud to do anything that a home pc can't do, that's not the issue. The issue per Mr. Brookes is that the game is completely coded to work with the online server only, there is no option in the code anywhere for an offline game of any kind. It's not that an offline version isn't possible, of course it is, it's just that FD doesn't want to because it doesn't fit with their vision for the game.

The cloud is essential simply because the game is coded that way, not because it's impossible to do it offline.

It was a decision they made a long, long time ago, yet only announced it to the customers two days ago. And THAT's what is truly horrible about this entire situation. People ended up buying a game that wasn't what they were told it was due to the terrible lack of respect and communication on FD's part.


Could it be turned into an offline game? Of course, with some work. They just don't want to.
 
As a kickstarter backer totally unaffected by these developments I am astounded at Frontiers decision and chosen method of announcement on this issue. I have held fire for a couple of days on posting on this issue because I really wanted to let it sink in and post a measured response accordingly.

As to the reasons the decision was made, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on that, however, as others have said, I am struggling to believe that it only became apparent that Single Offline wasn't viable in the last few days and this close to release. Surely it must have become apparent sometime ago that this was going to be the case, and as such, it should have been communicated to us, via the forums, and in the appropriate newsletter, as soon as it was so much as a possibility, let alone a 'tough decision made'.

Whether or not anything was 'promised' is fairly moot at this point, the point is that Frontier staff, (at least some culpability), and moderators, (not their fault), and the community at large thought there was the option of Single Offline still at 15:40 hours on Friday just gone, this is unacceptable. Whilst some of the people claiming they will take x, y or z legal action, report the issue, or in some way derail Frontiers launch event are, in my opinion, overeating, some of the people defending Frontier on this decision are equally as lamentable.

@ Frontier - You must realise, (and surely do), that crap sticks and becomes hard to wash off, some of those that have posted in this thread and others have been your most ardent backers and supporters, many of them have defended your policy and track record, sometimes rightly, sometimes not so much so. It was never their job to do so, nor was it requested by Frontier, however, do not underestimate what the good 'word of mouth' aspect has done for your name, your brand and your game. Also, do not underestimate how damaging it is or how long it will take to wash the stains out of the laundry from this mess of an announcement.

The omens are worrying to say the least now, we learn that the statement 'we are making the game we want to play' now actually reads, 'we are making a platform that may, one day, become the game we want to play'. We learn that a decent sized part of the proposed features may well permanently be on the cutting room floor, and, we have our faith shaken that if something as fundamental as an entire game mode can suddenly be 'not viable' then what next? It seems if something like that can be dropped then no proposal is safe, like it or not, some trust has gone Frontier, of course not from all, but from a percentage of fans, some heavily involved financially, be it in shares, pledge level or just 'word of mouth positives'. The problem is Frontier, that this is starting to smell like you are in a bit over your heads, be it financially or simply from an overreaching point of view, 'we will release when its ready' seems to have gone out of the window, it wasn't 'ready' before Fridays announcement and is even less 'ready' if fundamental features are being canned.

To those of you that cannot play without offline mode, or are at least affected by it, to a larger or smaller degree, you have my empathy and hopes that Frontier will change their minds on this, to posters arguing with those affected, some of you should take a step back and think, you really should. Many of us are backers of Elite Dangerous, very nearly all of us are supporters of Frontier, we of course can have differing views on Supercruise and mining, without doubt, but the rug being pulled out from under the feet of some of us affects us all, it may be you or me next, it may be a feature we consider vital next, it may be us asking for a refund if this happens again. We should stand as one here, a community united, because this has the potential to hurt us all.

Great post! And to those who are telling people to drop it and just go away, that is not going to happen. Change comes about by not accepting and being heard, if people just shut up and go away nothing would ever change.
 
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