That's... new behaviour if that's the case. I've not done a lot of on-foot stuff since update 14, but I've never had people raise the alarms just from discovering a body, they have to at least go outright hostile before they start raising alarms.
Non-lethal option on foot...
- Thread starter Aashenfox
- Start date
Not new, been like that since Odyssey kicked off.
I'd like a cosmetic/ship kit-like option to attach to the suite modification "improved melee damage" as a purely cosmetic effect - happy to spend some arx on the appearance of a knife, sword or similar archaic weapon. That and being able to move corpses and we're good.
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Very odd. I've only had them raise the alarm if they actually see me.
I've cleared entire settlements with a non-silent weapon without raising the alarms, purely by leaving the area immediately after blasting someone. People come running to the noise and find the body, but they don't do anything if I'm not in LOS. There's been a few times I've been hidden and heard them do the "oh my god a body" thing and run towards it, but as long as I keep out of sight I can just hang around and they just.... put their gun away and go back to what they were doing after a while.
This has always been my experience too.
Sounds exactly like my experience IF the settlement alarms are disabled.
Maybe it's a bug that it doesn't occur if you get outside a particular range?
Incidentally, I've not done any on foot stuff since U14 landed, so maybe U14 actually broke it.
Unfortunately not in a position to try and get video for a couple weeks. I'll DM you when i do.
This is a good description of the deficiencies (and likely explanation for the deficiencies) of the entire stealth/infiltration experience in Odyssey.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
if it improved something then it isn't cosmetic.... and in that case making it an arx purchase would be awful. so far FD to their credit have refrained from going that direction.
Attached to the Suit Modification "Improved Melee Damage" - so entirely cosmetic but only available as a cosmetic if you would logically be doing more damage (because of the suit modification).
AHH got you. sorry I thought you meant the arx purchase ittself gave the improvement. Pre coffee innit!
Here's one of me raiding a settlement, no alarms disabled.
Dominator suit with two rocket launchers. I stole level 3 access through a window then went to town.
At around 3:50 you'll see me finishing my loop of the EXT building and coming back to the front of the power building where I started my rampage - two guards are standing over the bodies I'd made earlier, but they don't start to sound the alarm until after they see me coming out the door with a weapon out.
Edit: this video really shows the limitations of the "alarm call" mechanic - surely the people who heard all these repeated explosions should have figured "there's an active shooter on the base, better call it in" even if they didn't see the person responsible? Personally, I kinda think that if someone's already alerted by a gunshot and they hear a second one while they're still looking, they should call for backup. It'd limit the ol' "shoot some guy then hide on the roof" tactics.
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This one.
In your video, i saw nothing out of the ordinary (nice, btw).
Enemies have a heirachy of interactions (kinda like the BGS used to).
That enemy starts to call it in at 3:50 not because they see you, but because they lose sight of you (you break LOS by jumping up above the doorframe).
But that aside, at least in that particular video, you don't give any enemies the opportunity to call it in. They're either:
- in contact; or
- investigating
I don't actually see anyone have a chance to discover a body or finish investigating (which they do after finding a body).
It seems like rockets and explosions aren't treated any different to standard gunfire, which is definitely a problem... an explosion should cause everyone on the base to raise an alarm instantly... but nonetheless, knowing its treated like standard gunfire, then everything seems to be playing out like I'd expect in that video.
Maybe see what happens if you shoot someone in the open, and just watch the reaction of the person investigating? (Without being seen)
Catching up with this late, the behavior you describe is if you hang around the scene of the crime when it's discovered, same goes for standing next to an open item repository such as a catalysation thingy. If you're elsewhere in the complex, they go yellow, then resume their duties after a while.
Also @Screemonster
I think the discussion should be indeed the Crime System, as it is directly affecting stealth.
I also clear many bases, mostly pushing the limits of stealth and exploits on AI behaviour.
As you said, you can do stealth without the intended tools.
That is because stealth should be about how NPCs react acording to events they are aware of:
-Active Alarms
-Finding Bodies
-Seeing Violence
-Overhearing Gun Sounds
-Scanning Inventory, Profile and Crimes
So the problem is how the gameplay is only about avoiding theses triggers.
The Zap gun should not be treated diferently from normal gun kills. Crimes without proper evidence on the other hand, should be treated diferently from witnessed Crimes.
Stealth is more than not triggering failure state that leads into repression. I should be about freedom of aproach vs consequence of actions for the risk.
As I said, the current crime system restricts stealth, there is no deception, pretending, controlling situations.
It's all about dodging mechanics.
-Don't Trigger the alarm system
-Don't let them scan you
-Don't let guards get too close or see a body.
-Don't let them hear you shoots or see your weapon.
And even if you do all that, you are still a convicted criminal. On the loose, full of evidence that is directly attached to your resposibility.
So the only payoff is not triggering gun play. Become a notorious criminal a pacifist. A state that affects your current activity on that base as soon as a crime is commited.
Harmfully impacts steath gameplay.
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I think you're mostly dead right, the way detection and crimes are handled is an issue, however, there are bases where completing a non-violent heist is 'almost' impossible. I know they're possible, if you sit there for 20 minutes and watch the routes until that one split second when everyone's back is turned to enter a restricted area with two people in it and turn off the alarm and get out again without being spotted by either NPC or the patrolling commando outside. The last time I almost did it, I was so proud of myself, then I was spotted through the window just as I was tunring the alarms off.
I will not take a non-violent heist to a ++ base again, not because 'hurr durr, too hard, I want easy life", I'm a pvper, I like challenges and theorycrafting, but this is just cruel and unusual. I would still also like a 'knockout' gun please, as well as some better crime and detection logic, as you say.
they used to be a lot more viable before the update that made people react to the dropbox opening regardless of whether the alarms were off - and in some cases like the small extraction settlements, regardless of whether they actually have line of sight to the thing.
It's a real pain if you want to do it stealthily since not only do you have to watch their routes to sneak around, you have to predict where their routes will be exactly three minutes from now.
If there were a decently viable way of distracting someone it'd be great - like, you sneak around and find the name of the person you want to distract then use a terminal to page them to a specific location, like "Urist McMiner to the habitation building please" to send that one person off on a wild goose chase to get them away from their post for just long enough to swipe whatever you need from their room.
Bonus points if it had sensible limitations like guards going to check out the terminal it was sent from when the target finds there's nobody at their destination.
(what'd be really neat is if the game remembered specifically whose ID you'd copied and doing too much suspicious stuff with it, in a way that gets caught, would end up with the access being revoked. Like, if Bob Roberts' level 3 access is used to page someone, and that person then asks "hey bob, why'd you send me here?", Bob might go to a terminal and reset his access credentials.
That's possibly scope creep from playing too much SS13 though. Agent ID cards my beloved.
Active distractions would be really smart, great idea.
I still wonder if a second player might be useful in those situations.
My current activity in Oddy is tramping from system to system, looking for legal settlement massacre missions (that alone is hilarious in PEGI16), then go in there, stealth to alarm console, shut it down, then kill everybody in cold blood. I do it for the combat rank, since this activity is the fastest way IMHO (certainly faster than space combat) and you can farm mats for on-foot engineering in peace.
Oddy for sure encourages mass-murder game-play, and that the excuse for no stun gun is the PEGI rating itself is so absurd that I'd expect it coming from an EU politician. Complete and utter rubbish.
Perhaps somebody should report this situation to the officials, so the rating is lost and FDev is finally free from those restrains.
Oddy for sure encourages mass-murder game-play, and that the excuse for no stun gun is the PEGI rating itself is so absurd that I'd expect it coming from an EU politician. Complete and utter rubbish.
Perhaps somebody should report this situation to the officials, so the rating is lost and FDev is finally free from those restrains.