Notice Notice regarding supply and demand of high-end minerals

particularly in regard to the prices being offered by stations based on the amount of commodities currently in your Cargo Hold.
Any chance you could clarify when this change was made Stephen? Was it new in January or was it existing code made 'more obvious' with the mineable minerals being so expensive?

Anyway - thanks for looking at this!
 
From a POV of a new commander (just recently left the starter zones with my new account) I find the prices very ok now. Even if they are now just a third of what they were before, it's still a massive income compared to other activities and a long overdue adjustment to other activities. I've got ~560 kcr per unit of LTD and suddenly I had my first 10 Millions - from a single core mined in a Cobra. :)

And this was found with the ingame galmap tools. There's probably more to it with 3rd party tools, but if the new changes have actually broken all extern trading tools, I can happily accept some oddities in how that's calculated. All I can see now is a much greater volatility and diversity of mineral prices, finally no no-brainers anymore! Feels just about right and so much better than before... 👍
 
Greetings Commanders,

Thanks for all of the feedback you've shared with us on this topic, particularly in regard to the prices being offered by stations based on the amount of commodities currently in your Cargo Hold.

Since the January Update, with the help of your feedback, we have identified that this process doesn't perform as well as we intended and it's something the team will be looking into improving in a future update.

As always, as soon as we have more information about that, we'll let the community know, whether it's in the Patch Notes or an announcement.

o7
Good acknowledgement, thank you.
 
Greetings Commanders,

Thanks for all of the feedback you've shared with us on this topic, particularly in regard to the prices being offered by stations based on the amount of commodities currently in your Cargo Hold.

Since the January Update, with the help of your feedback, we have identified that this process doesn't perform as well as we intended and it's something the team will be looking into improving in a future update.

As always, as soon as we have more information about that, we'll let the community know, whether it's in the Patch Notes or an announcement.

o7
Bang go the fleet carriers again ;)
 
Prices based on Supply and Demand would mean something if we could see the actual trends of the supply and demand in the last seven days or so, in the market view.
If we know our fellow CMDRS have supplied several million tonnes of LTD to a station with demand around the same number we can expect the price to start falling off somewhat.

That fact that Supply is "real" and Demand is a made up number based on an algorithm or how a dev feels it should be can be what will lead to massive fluctuations in prices. Uncertainty isn't helpful to any one, as we learnt from the Engineering as an RNG exercise.

It will be a fantastic day when we can start producing our own hulls and modules for sale on the market to our fellow CMDR's and NPC's alike.
 

Stephen Benedetti

Community Manager
Frontier
Any chance you could clarify when this change was made Stephen? Was it new in January or was it existing code made 'more obvious' with the mineable minerals being so expensive?

Anyway - thanks for looking at this!
Hey @Factabulous,

Commodity costs have been calculated in this way since 2014, however, since the recent changes to high end-minerals, this has been highlighted by commanders who have been checking how and where to get the best prices.
 
Greetings Commanders,

Thanks for all of the feedback you've shared with us on this topic, particularly in regard to the prices being offered by stations based on the amount of commodities currently in your Cargo Hold.

Since the January Update, with the help of your feedback, we have identified that this process doesn't perform as well as we intended and it's something the team will be looking into improving in a future update.

As always, as soon as we have more information about that, we'll let the community know, whether it's in the Patch Notes or an announcement.

o7
This sounds like great news! I would suggest having certain stations have huge booms over time and have other areas keeping around the million mark with minor ebbs and flows.
 
The proper solution would be a sliding price as you increase your sale volume towards market demand (see Patrician IV for an example). But since people will want to sell their entire stock in a single place 99% of the time, the current implementation is probably still good enough and only "outlier" (to put it politely) commodities that are abundantly available and selling at an artificially high price into limited demand would show any issues.

Making those highly priced and prized commodities truly rare would be another solution.
 
FDev have not coded in Viable system... All laser mined rocks reset after 2 hours so the hotspots do not empty ever of laser mining rocks and there location is fixed this allows maping of the hot spots for repeated runs... deep core mining can run out (if enough players were to do mining) Laser never does as after 2 hours you just restart at the start of the maped route..
So if someone goes to the trouble to identify high-yield rocks and is able to reliably find and mine them you have a problem with that? Is it because you lack the ability or willingness to do the same? Perhaps instead of complaining how others play the game at a high level as if it is some sort of exploit you internalize those feelings of impotence and strive to be better.
 
Any chance you could clarify when this change was made Stephen? Was it new in January or was it existing code made 'more obvious' with the mineable minerals being so expensive?
and
 
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Greetings Commanders,

Thanks for all of the feedback you've shared with us on this topic, particularly in regard to the prices being offered by stations based on the amount of commodities currently in your Cargo Hold.

Since the January Update, with the help of your feedback, we have identified that this process doesn't perform as well as we intended and it's something the team will be looking into improving in a future update.

As always, as soon as we have more information about that, we'll let the community know, whether it's in the Patch Notes or an announcement.

o7
Any chance you could clarify when this change was made Stephen? Was it new in January or was it existing code made 'more obvious' with the mineable minerals being so expensive?

Anyway - thanks for looking at this!
Hey @Factabulous,

Commodity costs have been calculated in this way since 2014, however, since the recent changes to high end-minerals, this has been highlighted by commanders who have been checking how and where to get the best prices.
Weird that this was not felt at all for the entire 2019.
Prices on high-end minerals were rock stable (for the duration of the states that were affected them) and the amount of commodities in the cargo hold certainly didn't seem to affect the offered prices.
Just saying
 
So if someone goes to the trouble to identify high-yield rocks and is able to reliably find and mine them you have a problem with that? Is it because you lack the ability or willingness to do the same? Perhaps instead of complaining how others play the game at a high level as if it is some sort of exploit you internalize those feelings of impotence and strive to be better.
Seems a little harsh of an insult on a simple statement. Almost seems, insecure or potentially inadequate, to be so upset by this. Just saying.

Smh
 
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This ... is so weird. I'm glad my local shops don't base their prices on what cash I have ...
But they do up to a point, go to a super market in a affluent area and you will pay far more for the same product as you would in a poor area. Some Online supermarket prices also change depending on postcodes even if coming from the same store. Dont believe me try it!
 
Any chance you could clarify when this change was made Stephen? Was it new in January or was it existing code made 'more obvious' with the mineable minerals being so expensive?

Anyway - thanks for looking at this!
Has been this way since 2014, the problem is: The demmand now is TOO LOW.

They made this way to nerf bigger ships and buff medium/small ships. (Again).
Like another people said on this topic they should rename the game to Elite: Python.
 
Weird that this was not felt at all for the entire 2019.
Prices on high-end minerals were rock stable (for the duration of the states that were affected them) and the amount of commodities in the cargo hold certainly didn't seem to affect the offered prices.
Just saying
The effect of the tax seems to depend on the commodity - commodities which don't show much price change between 0% and 100% demand also don't seem to show much tax. And before 3.6, gems didn't change price based on demand, so weren't noticeably taxed.

Thinking back I'd definitely noticed the bulk tax on Coffee/Animal Meat prices years ago - I just didn't realise that's what I was seeing.

Prices based on Supply and Demand would mean something if we could see the actual trends of the supply and demand in the last seven days or so, in the market view.
If we know our fellow CMDRS have supplied several million tonnes of LTD to a station with demand around the same number we can expect the price to start falling off somewhat.
Yes - there's a big difference between demand 100t (baseline 100t) and demand 100t (baseline 10000t). Access to historic market data is very valuable for figuring out what's actually going on.

That fact that Supply is "real" and Demand is a made up number based on an algorithm or how a dev feels it should be can be what will lead to massive fluctuations in prices. Uncertainty isn't helpful to any one, as we learnt from the Engineering as an RNG exercise.
The pricing algorithm is entirely deterministic, though - fixed pricing curves, consumption rates, responses to BGS states (which are themselves deterministic), etc. All the uncertainty comes from not knowing what the other players have been up to. If you were the only player of the game the prices would be extremely static and predictable - as, indeed, they are for most commodities because there aren't enough people trading them.

I'd rather see demand being more responsive than it currently is to player activity - most goods the uncertainty is very low because the market is rarely touched compared to its natural "return to equilibrium" rates - but that would increase uncertainty, not decrease it, in terms of the profitability of any individual trade run. If you want consistent pricing without major fluctuations, you need player activity to have even less effect on prices than it currently does.
 
Greetings Commanders,

Thanks for all of the feedback you've shared with us on this topic, particularly in regard to the prices being offered by stations based on the amount of commodities currently in your Cargo Hold.

Since the January Update, with the help of your feedback, we have identified that this process doesn't perform as well as we intended and it's something the team will be looking into improving in a future update.

As always, as soon as we have more information about that, we'll let the community know, whether it's in the Patch Notes or an announcement.

o7
That’s good news.

The word “future” makes me a little nervous, though. Are we talking Fleet Carriers “future”, New Era “future”, or revamped ice planets “future”?
 
Apologies if this is already common knowledge here (been skimming the thread and didn't spot it being mentioned explicitly) but I only just found out that this "Bulk Sale Tax" thing has been in the game since at least January 2015 and possibly even earlier.

bulk-sale-fee-hidden-tax-for-traders

Anyway, thought some might find that interesting.

o7
Oh hush Alec, you're ruining all the outrage for the 'experts' who stridently proclaimed that trading has NEVER worked like that over the last 15 pages with your sense and facts. 😁
 
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