Notice Notice regarding supply and demand of high-end minerals

What's stupid is that the bulk tax gets applied based on cargo rather than the actual transaction,

Well, that's basically what everyone is saying with a good percentage of voices asking for a total removal of it
Which, imo, it kinda makes sense in an universe where gameplay moved waaay beyond making money.
 

Deleted member 38366

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I don't think someone going to a shop and buying a few pencils is comparable to any situation in Elite. We are regularly trading / mining with a few hundred tons of goods.

True, but that's IMHO "buying pencils" like any other CMDR or NPCs.
At least that's how the 3306a.d world looks to me.

In a world (counting all the Markets in the bubble) where Millions are traded routinely with a total Market size going into Trillions of tons... what do 10, 100 or 700 tons matter?
We're small fish as Individuals even in an unshielded Trade Cutter.
 
True, but that's IMHO "buying pencils" like any other CMDR or NPCs.
At least that's how the 3306a.d world looks to me.

In a world (counting all the Markets in the bubble) where Millions are traded routinely with a total Market size going into Trillions of tons... what do 10, 100 or 700 tons matter?
We're small fish as Individuals even in an unshielded Trade Cutter.
If you want it as realistic as possible the trading market in its current form would no longer exist. All selling would be handled via contracts / missions where you can negotiate quantity, prices and delivery times. ;)
 
Which, imo, it kinda makes sense in an universe where gameplay moved waaay beyond making money.
See, lots of people keep saying this like it makes exorbinant money spinners OK[1].

Realistically, it's just saying "credits don't matter"... and if that's the case the stuffit, let's remove credits from the game. Because if the "majority of the player base[2]" credit rewards from missions, exploration, standard trade, bounty hunting, war bonds and other mechanisms are going to remain dwarfed by a casual mining session, then they make no sense, and if mining is literally the only money making activity, then best get rid of it.

The hilarious part is all the other activities would still have their purpose in a creditless game, but mining would be totally out of luck. Either there's a sane and sensible progression to the earning of credits with the rare and occasional windfall, or they might as well just not be in the game, because then they are just a pointless grindwall.

"Credits are pointless, BUT DON'T YOU DARE TOUCH MY ENORMOUS CREDIT FAUCET" needs some major cognitive dissonance to comprehend.

[1] Not suggesting you necessarily think that, since I think I get your train of thought, just using the quote.
[2] Not that I think anywhere near the majority of the player base think this is bad, just the usual handful of vocals.
 
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Is it possible to put some facts on all the speculation, theory crafting and self-referencing.
Can anyone post the distribution of time spent on the various activities?
Just so we can tell how big a 'problem' it actually is.
 

Deleted member 38366

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If you want it as realistic as possible the trading market in its current form would no longer exist. All selling would be handled via contracts / missions where you can negotiate quantity, prices and delivery times. ;)

Trading would be based on actual Supply & Demand.

Players or PMFs/Squadrons owning Systems/Stations/Markets would set their own prices and possible bulk discounts for trading with other Stations via MegaShips/Bulk Carriers in order to manage their own Economy., taxes as applicable by their Power/SuperPower affiliation and local region.
Individual Players docking in their Ships would trade like today, tough, minus any bulk trade tax which wouldn't be applicable due to tiny individual trade volume.

Won't happen though, as we'd need a full and realistic Sandbox Economy. Hence, that's a tad off-topic.
 
What's stupid is that the bulk tax gets applied based on cargo rather than the actual transaction, I already mentioned that earlier.
That's because it gets exploited otherwise (selling one ton at a time). It wasn't there from the beginning, something happend to get it changed but I can't remember what it was.
 
That's because it gets exploited otherwise (selling one ton at a time). It wasn't there from the beginning, something happend to get it changed but I can't remember what it was.
Yes, when I mentioned it I said that transactions would need to be monitored over a certain time / per docking procedure... ;)
 
That's because it gets exploited otherwise (selling one ton at a time). It wasn't there from the beginning, something happend to get it changed but I can't remember what it was.

I think it was changed because at the time the amount of transactions was important- so 1 x 100 cargo was only one transaction, while 100 x 1 transactions counted for a lot more.
 
Who cares if you don't like it do something different, its all bull after all its a game "supply and demand" ha ha next joke get real its just another **** if your that ed off that try a different game there nothing like falling player numbers to get there attention. SHUT UP, SUCK IT UP or go forth and multiply.
 
The current bulk tax makes it difficult to determine how much you are actually going to receive per unit before arriving at the station with your cargo. To the point where we'll need 3rd party tools just to figure it out.

So why don't they make it so the demand is the maximum amount of cargo of a certain type any individual can sell at the given price to a station between server supply/demand updates? Then adjust the demand and price to reflect how they want the game to be played, eg. outposts have low demand but higher selling prices if they want small loads to be worth more per ton.

Keep it simple and transparent.
 
:ROFLMAO: :giggle::love::LOL::ROFLMAO::LOL: oh thanks for that, funniest thing ive read in ages . Why stop there tho? Why not get rid of this silly relentless engineering clickgrind and make engineering results RNG instead?! That sounds fantastic and I cant imagine any years of relentless complaining about that either 🥳
Point is to find an actual use for commodities such that players become and even bigger part of the economy, rather than leaving the BGS handle demand and supply. If you don't like the idea of having them used for engineering, that's fine. There are other possible uses.

On a side note, engineering being hard to do is a good thing. A highly engineered ship is endgame equipment. It's not meant to be easy to get. Problem is that for the most part, many has absolutely no role to play in engineering. Which means that making money earning activities such as mining more difficult doesn't make sense. Why set endgame difficulty on an activity that doesn't produce endgame content? As such, inflation occurs, because people just accrue money after they buy the ships they want. Diverting that money in engineering would solve some of those problems. I'm certain it would create some new problems too, which is why we're discussing things here (insert comment about how naive it is to think our discussions have much influence over FD's decisions).
 
That's because it gets exploited otherwise (selling one ton at a time). It wasn't there from the beginning, something happend to get it changed but I can't remember what it was.
But why even change the price based on how much you sell? The buyer needs those items. The longer they wait, the worse it is. If anything, they should give you a bonus for selling so much in one go. Maybe there's a very expensive production line sitting idle, costing incredible amounts of money, waiting for those items.
 
:ROFLMAO: :giggle::love::LOL::ROFLMAO::LOL: oh thanks for that, funniest thing ive read in ages . Why stop there tho? Why not get rid of this silly relentless engineering clickgrind and make engineering results RNG instead?! That sounds fantastic and I cant imagine any years of relentless complaining about that either 🥳

that was actually a thing back in the day. :ROFLMAO:

sadly, i can't dig up any of those juicy threads so you could have a good laugh. too old, i guess (the threads, not me!), or they didn't survive the forum revamp.
 
As of today, I am still getting 1.1M a ton for LTD in loads under 200T. It just takes a few minutes more to find a system with both the price and demand I need close enough to reach in a timely fashion. So far this change has only really slightly reduced what I can make an hour laser mining in a triple LTD hot spot. It just made it a bit more difficult and maybe requires I fly a bit further.
 
Final thing: give commodities an actual use for players! Until then, no one will have any need of buying or selling things other than cash. Why not make commodities needed for engineering? What if i actually needed materials available on the market to engineer something?

Urm.....they did? In Engineers V1.0?

That attempt didn't end well, and the commodities requirement was dropped.
 
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