General / Off-Topic Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris is Burning

Total nonsense.
I'm afraid not, my friend. Personal responsibility and lack thereof is rather scary affliction upon the species of modern day human; it's far easier to sit on the sidelines decrying a lack of fairness then it is to take responsibility and do something about it. Easier by far to say that people like me who've come from the humblest of beginnings are simply lucky, then to be forced to examine what I did to surpass both statistics as well as expectations.

@Bob, these people are wearing me down. Be a sport and take over for a few rounds while I go mix a gin and tonic, ok?
 
Personal responsibility and lack thereof is rather scary affliction upon the species of modern day human; it's far easier to sit on the sidelines decrying a lack of fairness then it is to take responsibility and do something about it. Easier by far to say that people like me who've come from the humblest of beginnings are simply lucky, then to be forced to examine what I did to surpass both statistics as well as expectations.
If you're going to claim that people here are failing to take responsibility for their own actions, please, point out where you see such a thing implied; I certainly made no statements to that effect, nor do I recall seeing any others. Acknowledging that I did not entirely earn my life of leisure and being skeptical of your absolute responsibility over your comparatively affluent position would hardly qualify...taking credit and taking responsibility aren't the same thing.

As for doing something about the lack of fairness in the world, the first step is awareness, and I am doing something about that (multiple things, actually).
 
If you're going to claim that people here are failing to take responsibility for their own actions, please, point out where you see such a thing implied; I certainly made no statements to that effect, nor do I recall seeing any others. Acknowledging that I did not entirely earn my life of leisure and being skeptical of your absolute responsibility over your comparatively affluent position would hardly qualify...taking credit and taking responsibility aren't the same thing.

As for doing something about the lack of fairness in the world, the first step is awareness, and I am doing something about that (multiple things, actually).
I was speaking in the context of society. It sounds like you are doing well for yourself, and unless you're blaming society for not having achieved greater success, then I'm good with that. That goes for everyone on this thread who've taken a contrary view to my own: you all seem pretty successful, and that's good, I never meant to disparage anyone for where they sit on the socio-economic chart. As long as everyone is satisfied that they had their shot and are cool with the results and don't blame evil rich people for not getting a bigger piece of the pie:)
 
Yes, I agree. in America it's the law of the jungle, the law of the strongest.

However it would be interesting that we come back to the real subject of this thread which is the cathedral Notre Dame.

:)
The worst is how everyone tries to get into everyone else's own business. That's not very liberating, especially if compared to Europe.


Totally agree on coming back onto the topic, this is slowly becoming a thread of its own and it's hard to not go off-topic with all the arguments and differing points of view flinging around. A lot of good ones and some, well that's up to personal perspective, really.


Are there any new infos on the exact cause, by now? I didn't follow the news for a while.
I wonder if the contractor might be liable for damages.
 
I feel the discussion is sliding, but it’s a very interesting conversation.
My parents had notthing, no really notthing! They started their business in the basement of the apartment complex we lived in.

When I was around 4 they had earned enough money to buy their first house. Fast forward and more siblings joined the club, I was 17, restless didn’t know what to do beside making troubles for my parents, I in a moment of insanity enlisted into the military, oh boy was my dad angry, because as the oldest son I was supposed to take over the now very good family business.

So I joined the military, was luck I didn’t got killed in the process and spend around a decade in the service doing my masters bidding.

Got an engineer degree and good connections I could use later In my life.
My kids are well educated, both academics, much better future than what I had to go through, however I’m not going to give them an easy life and they know that. They got my love, but not my money, I want them to know I will support but not rescue them unless it’s absolutely necessary. So if you drive drunk and do something stupid you’re on your own, you get the girl next door pregnant you take responsibility and do the right thing. I never swept that under the rug, they knew that, and until now all is good.

At one point my son wanted to experience alcohol and tobacco, so I asked him if he was a man now (he was 11) he said yes, then I place a bottle of whiskey on the table and a box of nice Cuban cigars I got from a friend.

Two glass and a deck of cards. So I said let’s play son!

One hour later he was puking all over the floor and his mom tucked him into bed, that day he renounced he was an adult and he never started smoking nor did he drink until very late around 21-22 don’t really remember . I believe parents today pamper their kids too much, but I digress.
 
Sure, and most of them could have tried something different, chosen a different path. To say that they were stuck where they were at is for the vast majority of them simply not true. I don't personally know a single "disadvantaged" or "poor" person who hasn't unwittingly been the architect of their own undoing. The bottom line is that what is being espoused by a number of you is a severe disinclination to take personal responsibility for your own decisions--opportunities exist, they are plentiful, a path straight to the top is there, it's just few people have what it takes to make the journey. And I never said it was just hard work and education; many times have I pointed out discipline, creative thinking and risk taking are also equally important factors. Not everybody who has these qualities rises to the top, or even part way, but plenty of them do, so to act like it's some kind of myth is just silly. One thing is for sure, if you don't try then you certainly won't improve your situation. The only myth is of the hard working poor person. There's the made up story.
The way to simply dismiss the plight of the general population, is a simple example of how 'out of touch' and aloof; you really are. To be blunt: You just don't have a clue about the daily struggle of the common man. This is not the first thread, in which you have shown these traits and to be honest; it is not your fault. You know and understand, no difference.

I have no issue with your 'success' (fair play, you made it) but to belittle the average Joe, because they have to struggle each and every day, in spite of a lifetimes hard work. To claim that it is 'their own fault', is a prime example of how sometimes, your opinion, is misinformed and not worth the respect, of the average hard working Joe.

Again: No disrespect intended. We can all see that you have done well and according to you. It is due to all of you own hard work; exclusively. Yes you have a valid opinion, in regard to many subjects, but not this one. All you are doing is causing animosity and reinforcing, just how out of touch, you really are.
 
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I'm afraid not, my friend. Personal responsibility and lack thereof is rather scary affliction upon the species of modern day human; it's far easier to sit on the sidelines decrying a lack of fairness then it is to take responsibility and do something about it. Easier by far to say that people like me who've come from the humblest of beginnings are simply lucky, then to be forced to examine what I did to surpass both statistics as well as expectations.

@Bob, these people are wearing me down. Be a sport and take over for a few rounds while I go mix a gin and tonic, ok?
There you go again. Blaming. Yes there is a small percentage that sits back and expects a hand out. However: That is not the general population; most are hard working, doing the best they can, but due to simple circumstances, that they cannot change; no matter how hard they try. They find themselves like Sisyphus; constantly pushing a rock up a never ending hill.
 
I was speaking in the context of society. It sounds like you are doing well for yourself, and unless you're blaming society for not having achieved greater success, then I'm good with that. That goes for everyone on this thread who've taken a contrary view to my own: you all seem pretty successful, and that's good, I never meant to disparage anyone for where they sit on the socio-economic chart. As long as everyone is satisfied that they had their shot and are cool with the results and don't blame evil rich people for not getting a bigger piece of the pie:)
I don't blame the rich people for not letting me share 'their piece of the pie'. I never have, never will. The closed shop, the nepotism and school tie networks; closing everyone else out and sharing the spoils, contracts, or what ever. I do have an issue with.
 
Hey Arry, I'm glad you had a chance to get the last word by stating that I was "out of touch." Clearly I'm cut out of a different bolt of cloth.

Now we should let this Jason bashing go so the thread can get back on track. I'll be getting in touch with the French government and sending over some of my guys to help with the restoration:)
 
Hey Arry, I'm glad you had a chance to get the last word by stating that I was "out of touch." Clearly I'm cut out of a different bolt of cloth.

Now we should let this Jason bashing go so the thread can get back on track. I'll be getting in touch with the French government and sending over some of my guys to help with the restoration:)
Good idea: This would be at cost; of course? After all making such an altruistic gesture would be sullied, if at the end of the day, you made a profit. Don't you think?

On-topic: Some of the latest insane ideas put forward, by those with nothing better to do.

https://www.dezeen.com/2019/05/15/notre-dame-rebuild-outrageous-proposals/
 
Are there any new infos on the exact cause, by now? I didn't follow the news for a while.
I wonder if the contractor might be liable for damages.
The scientific police begins to remove the trail of a malicious act and goes for a short circuit electrical elevators.

However, they are not sure and they say that the investigation will be long because there is still much to analyze in the cathedral.
 
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Good idea: This would be at cost; of course? After all making such an altruistic gesture would be sullied, if at the end of the day, you made a profit. Don't you think?

On-topic: Some of the latest insane ideas put forward, by those with nothing better to do.

https://www.dezeen.com/2019/05/15/notre-dame-rebuild-outrageous-proposals/
I've found that you get a much better product or service when you dispense with the virtue signaling of "altruism."

On a side note, all of the equal outcome types on the thread should be thrilled about this little nugget right here, a new policy in universities that should really lead to bright new professionals entering the work place: https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/16/us/sat-adversity-score/index.html
 
I've found that you get a much better product or service when you dispense with the virtue signaling of "altruism."

On a side note, all of the equal outcome types on the thread should be thrilled about this little nugget right here, a new policy in universities that should really lead to bright new professionals entering the work place: https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/16/us/sat-adversity-score/index.html
That is just silly. It will not improve the intelligence of the people; just massage the figures. It is a form of positive discrimination; just for the sake of it.

Initially I thought is was what has been in the news recently. About rich parents, paying the institutions, to have their kids grades improved. Unlike in this country; where they just pay for, extra private tutoring, instead.
 
That is just silly. It will not improve the intelligence of the people; just massage the figures. It is a form of positive discrimination; just for the sake of it.

Initially I thought is was what has been in the news recently. About rich parents, paying the institutions, to have their kids grades improved. Unlike in this country; where they just pay for, extra private tutoring, instead.
Yeah, it's pretty bad. Affirmative action to make SAT scores a much less important criteria than social circumstance. I would opine that this is a great example of political correctness veering society off the road and towards a cliff. Direct link to the "legally enforced gender pronoun of the day" advocates.
 
While SAT scores are far more a measure of how white and rich someone's parents are than any academic ability, adding an adversity score on top of that will make it a measure of how white and rich someone's parents are, plus how many minority-indicator check boxes they can simultaneously fill.

They should probably dispense with the SAT/ACT and similar tests all together. Then again, how white and rich someone's parents are, and now how many minority-indicator check boxes they can fill, rather than true scholastic aptitude, are probably of prime concern to university bean counters and marketing committees.

Edit:
That is just silly. It will not improve the intelligence of the people; just massage the figures. It is a form of positive discrimination; just for the sake of it.
The goal isn't to improve education, the goal is to make more money. You need to attract students that look good on paper and you need to appear to embrace diversity while doing it.

The problem is that most of these standardized tests are of demonstrably dubious utility and instead of tossing them, which would deprive them of a simple figure to bandy about, they revise them incessantly, covering old loopholes and problems with new ones.

One of the earlier changes I recall: https://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/04/education/sat-essay-test-rewards-length-and-ignores-errors.html

Students, even ones with very high SAT scores, are getting into universities with writing skills that wouldn't pass muster on a video game forum, precsisely because of inane tests like the above. It should have been obvious that graders were just going to gloss over stuff and mostly grade on length and flourish, so that's what's taught...objectively poor writing habits engineered to maximize grades on standardized tests.

I think this will go the same way...no improvement to any underlying issue and people will quickly find ways to game the system to maximize there adversity score.

If I were a wealthy parent trying to get my kid into a prestigious school, I'd enroll them in crappiest public high-school I could find (they are going to get tutored anyway and will have an easier time there academically than at a good school), and rent some crack den in a similarly poor neighborhood and make it our legal residence without actually living there. Not much I could do about some criteria, but I could probably manage a higher 'adversity score' for my kid than many of those actually suffering adversity would be able to manage.

Anyway, every time someone brings up a point that threatens to make the SAT/ACT less valid to colleges, which would complicate things, they may just enough changes to satisfy that specific criticism, without addressing the underlying problem.

Unlike in this country; where they just pay for, extra private tutoring, instead.
People do this here too. However, SAT tutoring being so targeted is one of the prime reasons why the scores aren't indicators of much other than who could afford a tutor. Any idiot can be be trained to ace a formulaic standardized test, even ones with some math and small amounts of writing, without needing a firm grasp of the application of the material ostensibly being tested and certainly without having to be a good student.

Yeah, it's pretty bad. Affirmative action to make SAT scores a much less important criteria than social circumstance.
SAT scores are mostly an indicator of social circumstance. This is affirmative action to make them an indicator of essentially nothing.

Edit2: Since the base score isn't altered, I suppose it includes the same indicators as before, with the new roundabout diversity indicator a long side. Still doesn't live up to the name or ostensible purpose of identifying scholastic aptitude, nor would any three hour long standardized test.

Standardized testing has it's place, but 'scholastic aptitude' is way too broad a thing for such tests to gauge to any meaningful degree. That's where the criticisms come from.
 
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Some new photos and also Justin Trudeau visiting.

"While there will probably be no withdrawal of the most important donations, the fact remains that the majority of the donations have not yet been realized." said the archdiocese of Paris.

And yes make promises is easy but to concretize them at the moment of putting the hand in the wallet is more complicated. :D
 

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The architect in charge of Notre-Dame say : "We must redo the arrow to the identical"

Responsible for the restoration of the cathedral since 2013, Philippe Villeneuve believes that we should let speak, those who know.
 
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