News NPC AI update

Dear People from FD.
Please read your Forums and react on the Problems of many Casual Players.

Everybody can release a successful Game only for Casuals.
Almost no one can release a successful Game only for Pro Gamers.
And ED was NOT released with that kind of difficult.
I still read and write in this Forum but the Game is actualy died for me after i pay´d almost 100€ for it with Horizons and some Skins.
Think about it.

/uninstall ED
 
Last edited:
Since 2.1.02 the NPCs are way to forgiving and easy. The number of challenging higher rank NPCs has also dwindled. It's gone from one or two per system to less than one per day.

In order to get a decent fight have to attack cops!! That is not my playstyle at all. Not interested in becoming a villain.
Come fly with me.... on the average of say 6 Jumps, I will get interdicted 3-5 times by elite FDL / FAS... :)
 
One way to do this MAYBE would be to match ship specification and when spawning an NPC into the game, it needs to be like for like in weapons and a similar ship and rank.
This would be ok for new elite pilots and still be ok for the elite(GOD) pilots.
 
Last edited:
Since 2.1.02 the NPCs are way to forgiving and easy. The number of challenging higher rank NPCs has also dwindled. It's gone from one or two per system to less than one per day.

In order to get a decent fight have to attack cops!! That is not my playstyle at all. Not interested in becoming a villain.

You must be doing something wrong ;)

Like someone else just suggested, you can come fly with me. I might get interdicted 2 or 3 times in half an hour. Always by a deadly or elite NPC flying a loaded FdL or a maxed out Anaconda. For some reasons, I haven't seen an NPC in a Cutter or Federal Corvette yet. A bit odd...
 
Last edited:
I also agree with Idahosurge - but wonder if a new category of "uber elite", etc. could allow those who would like a tougher fight to carry on and enjoy their games - while those like me who have pottered around from early days trading, doing missions, exploring and Powerplay would not be suddenly left out. I am not particularly interested in whizzing about planets on an SRV- but hey - the game was supposed to let you play it in many ways.

Even after the "server side change" and small upgrade, ships the same size as me have better speed, manoueverability and devastating thermal weapons. I do feel very let down by this "upgrade". I understand that "more balancing" may be needed. I hope it get sorted soon - Powerplay is especially devastating when the AI are so harsh.

One final point - the game is not only a combat game.
 
Last edited:
Isn't the exploid already introduced by making the game only playable for the top players? They still can make easy credits because they think the game is still to easy while others are having a big time now making credits due to their normal skills not being good enough to keep their ship alive?

I'll just keep this short in order to not derail the thread. If you want to discuss further, feel free to message me. Just because some players have top gear already and the AI is now harder does not mean an exploit has been introduced, in my opinion. This would naturally happen, regardless of AI skill. Some will accrue mass wealth and then be able to make more, some will not. Just because I may not be able to make as much money as you during the game is there any reason to assume that there is an exploit.

In regards to having solo/private group/open all separate, I'm not opposed to that at all. I am actually for that. While currently it is nice to be able to jump between the three modes, to give a sliding scale that would have to take place. Once again, that is an argument that has been made since the original Beta and probably earlier, I just can't say for sure.
 
Since 2.1.02 the NPCs are way to forgiving and easy. The number of challenging higher rank NPCs has also dwindled. It's gone from one or two per system to less than one per day.

In order to get a decent fight have to attack cops!! That is not my playstyle at all. Not interested in becoming a villain.

A so your playstyle is the right one! I was wondering.
 
I have read many opinions here and in other threads and most people seem to agree that the game environment is now hazardous, whether you are looking for combat challenge or not. As I have already written, even after 2.1.02, NPCs seem to have superpowers, and it's very difficult to even target them, even with agile ships. It's not only the strong weapons, it's the faster and more agile ships. You cannot target them and you cannot outrun them. It's a death sentence. I have read that the ship does not matter. Big, small, slow, fast, it's a matter of time to run across one of these NPCs that will blow you up. Unless you are an Elite player with a top rated ship. I have concluded that only this kind of players find the new situation pleasing.

Even though I enjoyed the easiness of the game before 2.1, I too agree that it was too easy to make money and a little tweaking to make it more challenging was not a bad idea. Going to the other extreme however is much worse. Giving NPCs abilities the player will never have, it's not only difficult, it's unfair. I have decided that it's not worth the risk and I'll stay in the safety of the space station I have docked till the developers let us know what their opinion on the situation is. It's not a bad idea to take a little rest. I'll leave more free resources for the hardcore players that enjoy the changes.
 
You've just kill the fighting way of this game, NPC is too strong or too speed or too handy !
I've got a Python, full fitt, if I fight a big ship, it kills me in a second, and if I fight a small ship, it's always in my back ! During a 5 minutes fight, If this ship stays 10 seconds in my sight, I can say I'm a lucky guy !
We cannot fight anymore, and don't want to spend my time going from A to B !
It was funny to fight between two commercials sessions, it relaxed ! Now, we can't fight, it becomes impossible, just impossible ! I must run away with a Python full fit,     !
 
Last edited:
So, another report from my today adventures.

Got interdicted from Fer-de-Lances and Anacondas all Dangerous, Deadly or Elite again all time. I already continue flying to station and when i reach them, i simply dock, ignoring the NPCs. Otherwise i would fight more, then i trade. Haven't noted them anymore, to much work. :p

Tried my luck with an Dangerous Anaconda to test how it actually is against my Cutter and it gave me the hell of a fight. Shield-cells all time, until i finally managed somehow to break trough the shield. This time aswell no NPC police reinforcements has shown up, what was a bit surprising. Was a close one and i limped back to station with about 60% hull and a broken canopy. At least i got 200k bounty for it, so the 80k repair cost was at least payed.

So i decided to avoid the Anacondas in the future. Easier said as done. Some flights later (i think i could count them with the fingers on one hand :p) i got attacked again by an Anaconda. This time Deadly. Wasn't able to reach the station before it interdicted me. So considering my last fight, i tought best idea: run! So i gave full speed with boosting. Good thing by the Cutter is, even when it flys like a brick, its fast as hell. So i was away very fast.
The Anaconda of course followed me to station, but i docked. It holds its distance from the station and i tought its gone, because i hadn't it anymore on my sensors (bad D sensores).

After i launched again away from the station, i noticed a blip on my radar again. "Oh, great. The deadly Anaconda pirate." Was already away from the station but tought, ok, i shoot it some bumps in the shields and then i run back to the station and hide behind it. :p Well, funny thing was, as we got in the fight, my beams penetrated its shields really fast, even while he aswell cell boosted and after a short but hefty fight, my shields where down to one red middle ring and the inner one still at full power and then i saw a large explosion, some time after the Anacondas shield failed and its hull reached 0%. Ok, one single police Viper was there aswell but wasn't really doing much. And i got 120k bounty for it. The Anaconda, not the police. :p

How it seems, the rank of the NPCs is aswell a bit off. So there are ships with lower rank but way stronger equipment and aswell a higher bounty. I have aswell seen FDLs with 200k bounty and i think even 250k and lower ranked (dangerous or deadly) as Elite, where i have seen others with less bounty who where easier.

Ok, because i am not a good pilot and fighter, i blame everything that i was able to still get away or get some kills on the Cutter, who is a real pearl of a ship.
But i already considered, how peoples must feel flying a Type 6, Type 7 or even Type 9. Aswell a Python with way weaker shields. Or even the Anaconda pilotes. The NPCs are deadly accurate now, so size doesn't matter at all anymore, only that a larger ship can frameshift easier. And the Anaconda is slow. So getting away with a full cargohold seems nearly impossible. And i think the number of Cutter and Corvette pilotes is still low and will remain like this, by this great missions we have now.

I remember my way up. I got aswell over Type 6, Type 7, Python and Anaconda. I highly doubt, that i would have survived only one trade run with them by this conditions.
Now what we should look at are new players and player without a ship saving them all day. Flying with an Anaconda or a transport should work aswell. An idea would be to keep the upper 3 ranks (who seems now to be the only ones interdicting traders) from the trade routes. In return, missions with the high level NPCs could become more lucrative, so that even player beeing shooted down from time to time in this zones could make good money.

One problem is for sure. New players are the ones, flushing the money in Frontiers pockets. Aswell the ones still working their ways up and who might buy the Addons. Beta players have the full lifetime pack already and aren't buying them anymore. So the game has to be open for new players and aswell for causal players joining later and even without Horizon. Only if they are enjoying the game, they might buying the addons. And for the new players, if they buy the game is a question of the reviews. I have seen already some articles, writing how bad and evil the NPCs are now. Peoples who will consider buying the game would read it and if they read, that they nearly can't make money as newbie and without beeing a PRO in the game, what would be difficult, if you can't win, then they would decide against the game. And the result is easy.
Few addon sells, no new players -> no money and earlier or later, Frontier has to shut down the servers.

So my overall idea is: The AI how it is can stay. But the interdicting NPC level has to be decreased. They could be in special missions or combat areas with a warning, but a very high reward. So pro gamer can still have their fun against them and even earn a lot of fast money.
 
Absolutely agree, AI are way too fast and always in your back, no more farm possible, no more bounty, no more fun at all, do something fast plz. FDL full stuffed, i feel like a little p***y in the space, im bored farming commercial, bored to always run away, bored of not having fun in this game... At now you just ruined the game for me... 2 more days and i think i leave...

add: and to much adds when you intercept, or do quest...
 
Last edited:
I have two accounts - one where I am rated Master in combat and one where I am Novice.
On the Novice account I can hold my own against Dangerous Anacondas yet on my Master account I can get wiped out by a Novice Sidewinder in under 10 seconds.
Have Frontier screwed up and got the AI taking their skill level from the player rather than the NPC's stated skill level?
 
Today i loaded and tried the game again, dusted off my Viper Mk3 and headed for the local Nav Point.
Started well taking down a few Sidewinder's, then one epic fight with a Fed Dropship, this was turning out really good, the game i had always thought i had bought.
Then things changed, Suddenly every bad guy had "encoded Shields" or "Abherrent Shields" was the term which popped up briefly.
My guns refused to fire on those targets, i am guessing this is an engineers upgrade again. After that point i had to wait for the local cops to destroy there shields before i could go guns hot on the target.
This is , i don't have Horizons , so cant upgrade weapons to take this on. If i am running ED only i dont want to see Horizons stuff in my game.
Its now 2 seperate games. Which need to be kept seperate or are we being held to ransom by making ED unplayable without the purchase of Horizons ?
 
I'll just keep this short in order to not derail the thread. If you want to discuss further, feel free to message me. Just because some players have top gear already and the AI is now harder does not mean an exploit has been introduced, in my opinion. This would naturally happen, regardless of AI skill. Some will accrue mass wealth and then be able to make more, some will not. Just because I may not be able to make as much money as you during the game is there any reason to assume that there is an exploit.

In regards to having solo/private group/open all separate, I'm not opposed to that at all. I am actually for that. While currently it is nice to be able to jump between the three modes, to give a sliding scale that would have to take place. Once again, that is an argument that has been made since the original Beta and probably earlier, I just can't say for sure.


My statement that being a top gamer gives you an exploid is indeed a shortsighted one. The AI setting sugestion that trigered this needs to be clarified more.
Yes you are right that AI difficulty setting on player side could make exploids possible. This is not the case if this setting can only be changed, lets say once a month. Or wat you suggest, creating 3 servers with 3 difficulties settings.
Moving from one server to the other is only possible after a fee like 5 to 10 € and only once a month. This could exclude exploids and pay to win.
An other option is creating a new danger zone, somewhere in space with its own stations and economy, where the most skilled of us can have fun.

Now to stay on topic about the AI changes, items that pop-up most are:
- Interdiction harrasment. Even if some people killed the interdicting NPC, it seems they instand spawn and keep on interdicting till you are docked or you jump to an other system.
- Endless ammunition/missles/chaff/energy on NPC's while players dont have this. Maybe the NPC's have the mats on board to restock in flight and create extra ammo instand (usually the highest stats ammo). Players can not make the ammo instand. The time it takes to make more ammo can be killing.
- Spin of death after being interdicted. This happend to me enough to avoid populated space due to having a bounty on my head I got while on a mission that needed skimmers destroyed. Need to wait out my time to be able to pay my fine.
- Extreme flight skills of NPC's.
- Mission payout in mats needed for engineering fill up your cargo. This attrackts pirate NPC,s like hell. We have no station storage for materials. So I usually sell them instand.
- Invissible NPC's that can scan your cargo fom many Ls away and manage to interdict you.

There will be more AI behavior that can be annoying, just mentioned the ones I see most.
Most things we see as a bug could be triggered by us having problems with the extreme high descission possibilitys of the NPC's. We are only human (most of us) and we have emotions that work against us when we need to descide quick.
The new AI does seem to have only 1 emotion: when they see a human player they can only act as bulleys.
 
Absolutely agree, AI are way too fast and always in your back, no more farm possible, no more bounty, no more fun at all, do something fast plz. FDL full stuffed, i feel like a little p***y in the space, im bored farming commercial, bored to always run away, bored of not having fun in this game... At now you just ruined the game for me... 2 more days and i think i leave...

add: and to much adds when you intercept, or do quest...

Please don't use the word "farm". It's a bad word.
 
Please don't use the word "farm". It's a bad word.

And how would you say : "going from A to B all day long" ?
Do you see any diffenrence with killing porks all day long ?

Any similarities to actual persons or places, alive or dead, real or ficticious is merely coincidental and the product of a feverish imagination
 
Last edited:
Come fly with me.... on the average of say 6 Jumps, I will get interdicted 3-5 times by elite FDL / FAS... :)

Me too! I didn't realise until this morning when I read this thread this was because of an update. I recently kitted out an ASP Explorer and parked my 10 Mill combat Cobra to mine and explore and just kept getting killed costing 600k credits each time. I went back to my Cobra thinking it was something to do with my new ship as to why I was being targeted so much by such good players. up until the update I was getting interdicted mainly if I was on a mission or had valuable cargo but rarely otherwise, I could travel quite freely. Now I'm interdicted without taking missions and with no cargo probably 2 out of every 3 supercruise's and if I drop out of supercruise (to mine etc.) I'm attacked within 15 mins of being stationery by a Ninja NPC after my empty (or near empty) cargo hold and 0CR bounty. I'm a casual gamer that fell in love with Elite all over again and was instantly transported back to my childhood when I bought the Xbox preview and can't get enough of it but now I'm scared to leave the station #DontGoOutside :eek:.

As an aside does anyone know if Frontier ever plan to allow commanders to be transferable between Xbox and PC? I want to buy the PC version but don't want to have two different game progressions. I don't care much about cross platform play but given they are in the same universe I'd have though sharing you game progress between platforms should be fairly trivial. Only obvious issue is that period between the PC and Xbox updates but I'm sure there would be a way to cope with it. More than happy to rebuy the game at full price if they add this feature!
 
And how would you say : "going from A to B all day long" ?
Do you see any diffenrence with killing porks all day long ?

Any similarities to actual persons or places, alive or dead, real or ficticious is merely coincidental and the product of a feverish imagination

how would you say : "going from A to B all day long" ? -- Doing business (I personally prefer to relax rather than executing a second job)
Do you see any diffenrence with killing porks all day long ? -- Yes, by far less bloody and less aggressive

Regards,
Miklos
 
Last edited:
There is a lot of talk among those that I fly with about taking a break from the game. Some of that talk is coming from me. The NPCs were too weak at first. After the update the NPCs became super powers, which FDev figured out and is working to roll back. However, the balance is still off. Even after the most recent update (2.1.02) the NPCs are still too difficult. Example, I was with a friend who is in an A-rated Corvette, another friend in an Imperial Clipper, and then me, in my combat fitted Anaconda. First problem - while trying to hunt for merits when we pull someone over it takes maybe 30 seconds for 5 cops to show up. This is when there were no cops in supercruise. This needs to be changed. The amount of time should be based on some sort of more realistic time of how long it would take to get a cop to the scene, whatever that is. But 30 seconds is almost unplayable. We work to kill the guy and run as fast as we can but often end up getting bruised up by the super-fast cops. Second problem, the NPCs are too difficult. There is no reason the three of our ships should be struggling to kill, well, any single ship. However, we find that happening a lot - that is, a single ship somehow damages us enough to where we have to leave -- again, Corvette + Clipper + Anaconda - we should be winning.

I know there are at least 50% of the population who likes the new strength of the NPCs - but there are a lot of folks who don't. I'm one of the folks who don't, and I'm taking a break from playing for a while. I'll probably take a week off, and if nothing has changed the next time it'll be a month off, and if still too difficult - I'll deem the game as no longer fun; it's been spoiled, and I'll move on to some other game.

I hope FDev is listening. We don't need the NPCs to be as weak as they once were - but even today after the 2.1.02 patch it is still unbalanced in my opinion. So much so that myself and at least a half dozen others that I fly with, are all taking a break. Certainly won't be buying another season and possibly will stop playing altogether.
 
Back
Top Bottom