News NPC AI update

I do feel bad because I want to feel immersed in the game and constantly dying unfairly or combat logging break my level of immersion :( I have ordered a Vive in order to get the maximum immersion and I feel it's going to arrive at a time when I don't like playing the game anymore.

That was to be my next purchase to make this year. I think I'll wait.
 
I am now combat logging against NPCs for the first time since getting Elite - they disable your engines before you can escape and the combat is not fun anymore.
Just one example of many, for those who believe you always have a chance to escape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_54fzFat5iA

This vid should be shown to anyone as an example how to do everything wrong, starting from the interdiction to the end. If a clipper cant even take you out when you do essentially nothing, how low must the bar be set to have your preferred level of 'challenge'? :(
 
Speaking of level of Challenge:

Perhaps a "Difficulty Setting" with less rewarding Bounties or such in Solo Mode would be something. Since that Mode is there might aswell use it for that. The Rest of us who plays in Open is used to more Risk ( due possible Cmdr Interdictions ) anyway.
Also, with 2.2 everyone and their brother's can have wingmen, so that should make things easier for thoose which get frustrated instead of thinking about changing flight-behavior tactics.

Also, here's a Video from VJ that explains a few basics how to deal with interdictions if your having a ship behind you that your not confident with in confronting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woy8nmaVuVg

Also, when interdicted - press "H" ( per default ) to get your interdictor in target to see if your comfortable with that fight beforehand.

When i see a Video like Mukatsuku's i could point out more things he did wrong than i want to write about - altho i feel a bit sorry - so hit me up in Open and ill give you a bit of Flight & Combattraining if you want to.
One of the key components to success is: keep calm, keep cool. Flying in a straight line makes your ship & thrusters the easest ( and first target ).

Fly safe & Cheers!
 
My statement that being a top gamer gives you an exploid is indeed a shortsighted one. The AI setting sugestion that trigered this needs to be clarified more.
Yes you are right that AI difficulty setting on player side could make exploids possible. This is not the case if this setting can only be changed, lets say once a month. Or wat you suggest, creating 3 servers with 3 difficulties settings.
Moving from one server to the other is only possible after a fee like 5 to 10 € and only once a month. This could exclude exploids and pay to win.
An other option is creating a new danger zone, somewhere in space with its own stations and economy, where the most skilled of us can have fun.

Now to stay on topic about the AI changes, items that pop-up most are:
- Interdiction harrasment. Even if some people killed the interdicting NPC, it seems they instand spawn and keep on interdicting till you are docked or you jump to an other system.
- Endless ammunition/missles/chaff/energy on NPC's while players dont have this. Maybe the NPC's have the mats on board to restock in flight and create extra ammo instand (usually the highest stats ammo). Players can not make the ammo instand. The time it takes to make more ammo can be killing.
- Spin of death after being interdicted. This happend to me enough to avoid populated space due to having a bounty on my head I got while on a mission that needed skimmers destroyed. Need to wait out my time to be able to pay my fine.
- Extreme flight skills of NPC's.
- Mission payout in mats needed for engineering fill up your cargo. This attrackts pirate NPC,s like hell. We have no station storage for materials. So I usually sell them instand.
- Invissible NPC's that can scan your cargo fom many Ls away and manage to interdict you.

There will be more AI behavior that can be annoying, just mentioned the ones I see most.
Most things we see as a bug could be triggered by us having problems with the extreme high descission possibilitys of the NPC's. We are only human (most of us) and we have emotions that work against us when we need to descide quick.
The new AI does seem to have only 1 emotion: when they see a human player they can only act as bulleys.

Sorry, I hadn't noticed the response you posted. In response the the switching modes/new areas, I thought that is what Haz RES sites, Conflicted Nav Beacons (sorry, can't remember the exact term), and Combat zones were for? I'll be honest, I never fight in any of them because whenever I had in the past (standard beta, gamma, and initial release) I would get owned, and owned hard. So I stopped travelling there because I wasn't interested in paying a lot of rebuys. The only major downside to having to pay to switch servers is that would prevent a person like me who started in Private Group starting the slow transition to Open so I could possibly meet other players in the black. But that is just something to consider.

Onto the AI...

Interdictions: I believe they could be toned down some in frequency. Lately I've been getting interdicted more, however that is also because I have a 15000+ bounty on my head in Ptah system. But even when I didn't have a bounty, I felt interdictions were happening a little too frequently. I don't want space to be safe, but I would prefer it to be logical. If I'm in a ship that is known to be a trading ship (Asp Explorer, T6, etc..) I would expect to be interdicted by pirates more. If I'm wanted, I would expect to be interdicted more. If I'm in a Diamondback Explorer with no real weaponry and no wanted status, I would expect to be left fairly alone unless I'm in a system that is known to house pirates, because while some pirates only look for cargo, there are those who take lives. One thing, if you're taking a route through high security space, there shouldn't be too many interdictions unless your wanted. I wonder if the High/Low/No security in the systems is working as intended... Now with people not being able to escape interdiction, I wonder how many use the thrusters (vertical and horizontal) during the escape? If I'm shooting to avoid the experience, I cut throttle to about 75% and use thrusters as well as roll/pitch/yaw. I escaped all but one interdiction last night and usually I'm terrible at it. In regards to the spin of death, I only experienced that once and I initially tried to run and then decided to submit right when I was about to be forced out anyways. I don't know if that had anything to do with it, so unfortunately without experiencing it I can't give an opinion on it.

Endless Ammo/Chaff/Piloting Skills/Invisible Cargo Scanning/Etc: I've had some instances of the chaff seeming to go off more than it seemed possible, however I didn't have enough time to scan their ship and determine how many chaff launchers they had and what not. I do agree though, NPC's should be bound by the same rules CMDR's are whether it be ammo, heating, maneuverability, etc. I would also hope that if a combat npc is mostly harmless, that they would make mistakes just like a player would with thruster mismanagement, PIP mismanagement, and overheating weapons (if possible) and then rank up from there.

Not having storage space for missions rewards: While I know it attracts AI, that has nothing to do with AI implementation. I agree whole-heartedly that was poor design not to include storage capability. To keep the game quasi-realistic, I would prefer to see storage on stations/outposts cost a small amount of credits per month. Something like this: if you're at a station, you can pay 50cr a month for 200 ton increments where you can store whatever you want there. I would also hope for the following functions:
- Reminders at 7, 5, and 3 days till expiration so you can renew your "contract".
- If you didn't renew your contract, you wouldn't be fined, but the goods would be "sold" (similar to how storage facilities do now to non-paying customers)
- You could pay a fee (say 5% galactic average market value times the number of jumps) to transport said goods to a station of your choice as long as you have storage there.

We all have a different vision of what the AI should be like. Here is mine: there shouldn't be "trash mobs" of AI that you can farm. There simply shouldn't be that. This isn't a traditional MMO like World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, or whatever your favorite MMO is. In a game like this, I would hope the AI would be actual pilots in that you have some that trade, some that fight, some that just explore. To the point that based off piloting skills (both good and bad) that if it wasn't for the fact that they didn't have CMDR in front of their name, you wouldn't know it WASN'T a person. I've seen a good deal of that (trade ships just running from point a to point b, bounty hunters just lurking at the nav beacon, blood thirsty killers in super cruise) so I think we are getting close to that immersive world. It just needs some more tweaking. Perhaps the number of blood thirsty pirates and killers needs to be lowered by about 20-30%. I don't know the magic answer.

Sorry for the wall of text.
 

careBear1

Banned
I guess we all want the game to be how we would like it to be, including how we think it should be for other people. Hey they just have to stop whining and adapt – don't they. The game would ideally provide enough environments to accommodate a wide range of play-styles and combat abilities. The latest changes seem to have reduced that scope by requiring everyone to be better at combat (including running away) - and to possibly also engage in 'The Engineers' style gameplay to stay competitive even against bots. To repeat a point: combat is a zero sum game so 50% of pilots must be bad by definition. Forcing those 50% to continually fight above their level or wishes is a problem. Again, to repeat a point already made: imagine the bots were impossible to beat. That is practically how it appears to a group of players at any level of bot/player skill. I guess there has to be a minimum entry level in any game of skill, but suggesting everyone should be as good as the best, so the best can enjoy better combat is a bizarre solution – in my view. The game need variety so that player have as much choice as possible. There is no one size fits all solution. (Just sounding off. This is not directed against you or your balanced post.)
 
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I have written hundreds of times:

LEARN TO FIGHT. LEARN TO EVADE.

You can't play chess and complain about the weird movements all types of figures can do.

You can't play soccer and complain that the goal you scored doesn't count - although it was YOUR box you just hit.

You can't crash your car and complain about the damn thing - having no license and not knowing how to drive.

I'm a bit of a carebear myself (helping newbies), but the AI is NOT too hard. Knowing the pure basics - available in forums, howtos, videos or by just LEARNING yourself - one can evade 99 out of 100 "deadly" run ins.

Not being willing to learn and then complain about the AI being to hard is ridiculous. This video is one of the worst examples I've seen so far.
 

careBear1

Banned
For the avoidance of doubt, in case your gid gud post was directed at me, I was making general points and not talking about the video. Git gud is sound advice, but just improves the average skill level and maybe reduced the standard deviation. There will also be a top and bottom half. That was my point.
 
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I guess we all want the game to be how we would like it to be, including how we think it should be for other people. Hey they just have to stop whining and adapt – don't they. The game would ideally provide enough environments to accommodate a wide range of play-styles and combat abilities. The latest changes seem to have reduced that scope by requiring everyone to be better at combat (including running away) - and to possibly also engage in 'The Engineers' style gameplay to stay competitive even against bots. To repeat a point: combat is a zero sum game so 50% of pilots must be bad by definition. Forcing those 50% to continually fight above their level or wishes is a problem. Again, to repeat a point already made: imagine the bots where impossible to beat. That is practically how it appears to a group of players at any level of bot/player skill. I guess there has to be a minimum entry level in any game of skill, but suggesting everyone should be as good as the best, so the best can enjoy better combat is a bizarre solution – in my view. The game need variety so that player have as much choice as possible. There is no one size fits all solution. (Just sounding off. This is not directed against you or your balanced post.)

Oh I agree. One thing that would be interesting is to see stats on how many players trade (include mining and smuggle), how many players fight, and how many players explore. Get those percentages and then base the NPC's off of them. However, I don't think that is really possible because I feel that most players (including myself) dabble in all three. Now I mostly do bounty hunting and combat because I enjoy that type of action, but I trade when I get burned out on combat and I recently (just yesterday, actually) tried mining just for the new experience. That is really why AI is so hard to manage, in my opinion.

In regards to the better combat areas, that is where Haz RES and Combat Zones came in. Or at least I thought so. I mean if you're looking for top notch combat, does it not make sense that you would have to search out the most dangerous areas? To me, not searching for top tier fighting areas that would be no different than a UFC Champion going to my local gym where there are low level local fighters and then complaining that there is not enough challenge.

EDIT: Oh, one more thing... In regards to engineers and their upgrades, I don't think you HAVE to have them. I haven't even begun to start looking at it and against NPC's I've not had too much issue. Against human players, yes, I will more than likely get owned. However, that is also taking my piloting skills into consideration which as we discussed everyone is varied. I'd say I'm an average combat pilot, and running an combat spec'ed Diamondback Scout I do fairly well against the current AI.
 
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I have written hundreds of times:

LEARN TO FIGHT. LEARN TO EVADE.

You can't play chess and complain about the weird movements all types of figures can do.

You can't play soccer and complain that the goal you scored doesn't count - although it was YOUR box you just hit.

You can't crash your car and complain about the damn thing - having no license and not knowing how to drive.

I'm a bit of a carebear myself (helping newbies), but the AI is NOT too hard. Knowing the pure basics - available in forums, howtos, videos or by just LEARNING yourself - one can evade 99 out of 100 "deadly" run ins.

Not being willing to learn and then complain about the AI being to hard is ridiculous. This video is one of the worst examples I've seen so far.

Buy yourself a Type 7 or 9 and try to avoid or survive a Interdiction by a Deadly or Elite Clipper.
Then we can talk about "Learn to Play"
 
Buy yourself a Type 7 or 9 and try to avoid or survive a Interdiction by a Deadly or Elite Clipper.
Then we can talk about "Learn to Play"

I have flown my pure-trade-cutter for at least 20 hours since release: Not a single time I got killed.

I had ONE close call being interdicted by an elite fer de lance whilst talking on the phone.

For the files: I consider myself a mediocre (!) pilot. Yes I've done quite some PvP, yes I'm "elite" ranked in combat (4th time now) and yes it needs decision making.

Difference between 2.0. and 2.1. is: you have to think about what you're doing and you have to stick to your decisions. Then - and only then - you will have a good - and not so boring - time in game. There's no guarantee anymore for getting rich in the fast track without every being killed. It's far from "frustration galore, not making progress, although I'm a pilot god" as described in here over and over again.

LEARN TO FIGHT. LEARN TO MAKE DECISIONS. PLAY ELITE:DANGEROUS not ELITE:pLUSH-SOFA.

Seriously: The whole git gud thing is something that has been used quite often in history. Mostly by regimes you don't wish to be compared with. This is not gitgud advice, it is stop complaining and LEARN THE BASICS advise.

The new AI will help you fight a human attacker sometime by giving you some reason to learn.
 
You cannot evade them - I've given up trying to.

You can, I used to get away in my Cobra Mk III by putting 4 pips to the engines, now I put 4 pips to shields in my Cobra Mk IV.

I picked up a mission last night and got interdicted by a Master, he wasn't the mission hostile just a random, decided I shouldn't fight or try to SC away. I put 4 pips to shields, boosted away, dumped some chaff, picked a system to jump to and got out of there fast. I barely lost a single ring of my shields. When I got back to the system with the mission delivery station I got interdicted by an NPC looking for my mission cargo; it was an Eagle with a novice rating. Took less than a minute to destroy him for a small bounty. I'm only rated mostly harmless so I do expect to see lower ranked NPCs.

Obviously I haven't been hit with any NPCs with super weapons taking down my hull in seconds. I did see that in the beta but I put that down to NPCs with better ratings and Engineer's mods before I modded my ship.
 
Buy yourself a Type 7 or 9 and try to avoid or survive a Interdiction by a Deadly or Elite Clipper.
Then we can talk about "Learn to Play"

This is a T9 freighter build, 6A, 3 boosters, 400 tonnes of cargo- 2.1, I am engaging in combat and surviving. Are you really going to complain about following a simple procedure to run away?

[video=youtube;gtAqjkho1ro]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtAqjkho1ro[/video]

[video=youtube;F8qre-cT2zk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8qre-cT2zk[/video]

[video=youtube;bxzrDtMION8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxzrDtMION8[/video]
 
y5kFV2z.jpg


Excellent Work Commander
 
What you did is not combat logging. You exited the game via the menu, No problems with FD there :)

Well, yes it is. No judgement here; I don't really care if you combat log on NPCs, however it definitely IS combat logging even if it's not against the rules because FD don't get to decide what combat logging is. It is a term used to describe something that happens in many other games and simply means "logging out during combat". FD can't redefine terms that preceded the existence of Elite to suit their own preference.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

This is a T9 freighter build, 6A, 3 boosters, 400 tonnes of cargo- 2.1, I am engaging in combat and surviving. Are you really going to complain about following a simple procedure to run away?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtAqjkho1ro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8qre-cT2zk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxzrDtMION8

That's actually much more awesome than I expected lol. May I suggest that you target the drives with your missiles though? They're excellent for that now and that 'Conda would have been absolutely helpless after that.
 
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This is a T9 freighter build, 6A, 3 boosters, 400 tonnes of cargo- 2.1, I am engaging in combat and surviving. Are you really going to complain about following a simple procedure to run away?

I can assure you if you came across the NPC that got me in less than 7 seconds in a type 7 you would not be as shore as you are now.
 
I can assure you if you came across the NPC that got me in less than 7 seconds in a type 7 you would not be as shore as you are now.

Feel free to post a video over on the dangerous forum, we'll be happy to help you with your build and technique. If you are dying within 7 seconds in a Type-7/you should defintely request some help. I own and fly the T7, a few simple rules in a freighter is all that it takes to survive the cooldown & highwake, doesn't matter what NPC interdicts you.

Honestly mate, it's not hard if you follow some simple procedures, you just need to change your mindset and how you approach the situation, if you don't follow those simple procedures you will lose the ship.
 
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I can assure you if you came across the NPC that got me in less than 7 seconds in a type 7 you would not be as shore as you are now.

If an NPC got you in seven seconds you did something wrong. Simple as. You can A) admit that you could use some help with your technique, in which case plenty of people will be willing to share some tips with you, or B) you can blame it on the game and say "NPCs are OP, wah!" in which case I have absolutely no sympathy for you.
 
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I am now combat logging against NPCs for the first time since getting Elite - they disable your engines before you can escape and the combat is not fun anymore.
Just one example of many, for those who believe you always have a chance to escape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_54fzFat5iA

OK.

1. This is not the way to set your pips when you're submitting to an interdiction:

9c8194306b.jpg


You didn't even go four pips to shields when the first shot took three quarters of them out. 4 Pips to shields in that situation. Always.

2. Why did you deploy weapons? You were never going to use them, correctly too, so it was just one more thing to delay an attempt to jump out of trouble.

3. Boosting in a straight line is a reasonable strategy against a lot of ships in a Cobra due to it's sheer speed. However the Clipper is an outrageously fast ship for its size, so you'd have been better off doing anthing other than boosting in a straight line against it, especially because...

4. It was fixed weapons that did the damage to you so fast. You can't make it any easier for something to hit you with fixed weapons than by flying in a straight line dead in front of it.

5. And this is the biggie, the actual reason that you died. You tried to go back into supercruise, which is why you were mass locked. Don't do that. If you high wake out to another system instead you cannot be mass locked, meaning no delay to escaping. If you'd just done that and then flown evasively until the jump (i.e. moved pretty much anywhere in this case and then boosted) you might well have got out of that one without even taking a hit and it's very unlikely that you would have died.

This isn't stuff that's wrong with the game - it's a learning opportunity. You had the right idea, submit and then get the hell out, you just didn't execute it right. Better luck next time.

(Please don't read this as some 'git gud' nonsense by the way because it isn't, I'm just trying to help.)


You did pretty much that exact opposite of what cmdr's have been explaining is necessary, then you complain about not being able to escape?

All you had to do is face the Clipper, put 4 pips into SYS, boost past it, select another system and high wake, take any evasive maneuvers during the charge. Before anyone chimes in with the usual , it has nothing to do with 'Git gud' These are basic procedures that anybody in a ship should know, takes less than 5 mins to learn.

Christ, ninja'd almost word for word lol.
 
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3. Boosting in a straight line is a reasonable strategy against a lot of ships in a Cobra due to it's sheer speed. However the Clipper is an outrageously fast ship for its size, so you'd have been better off doing anthing other than boosting in a straight line against it, especially because...

Wrong kind of cobra, too. The MK III is very fast; the MK IV... Not so much.
 
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