Yup... and that's the bad side of the forums, and no, that's not good advice. It's simply rude.
However, I do stand by my statement that good advice was offered.
News NPC AI update
- Thread starter Zac Antonaci
- Start date
Yup... and that's the bad side of the forums, and no, that's not good advice. It's simply rude.
However, I do stand by my statement that good advice was offered.
For starters, as it's been said plenty of times now, when you hear warnings like "thermal attack" or "impulse attack"... those are not specific to engineer modified weapons. I'm not sure of the post I read it in, but it was something like... In 2.1 they added NEW SOUND EFFECTS to help CMDRs better identify and distinguish between ALL types of attacks. Meaning... weapons that already existed prior to 2.1. Here's a hint: Lasers, Rail Guns, and Plasma Accelerators ALL cause "thermal damage", and Shock Mines cause "Impulse Attack" warnings. *There have been Powerplay weapons/faction specific... that have increased heat effects, cause module malfunction, rail guns that can fire multiple rounds before needing to be reloaded... almost rapid fire one might say, smaller PA's with slightly faster fire rate... those are not modified weapons, have been here since the PP update. Whether or not NPCs use those weapons... I don't know. I DO know however... that PowerPlay NPCs are much more difficult & hit harder than your average NON-PP NPC, more often than not.
(I can say first hand that I have heard "Impulse Attack" from shock mines... in fact.. they were my own! Don't ask me how I managed to shoot myself... it just happens from time to time!
)Second, so what about an FDL not being able to outrun an "A" rated FDL? While it's true an "A" rated FDL usually includes "A" rated thrusters... NOT ALL NPCs use "A" rated components. Here's a hint for you: "D" rate your FDL EXCEPT for your thrusters, and it will weigh A LOT less than the fully "A" rated version of it... and because it weighs LESS, it's faster!
Another hint: NPC's don't need the best Frame Shift Drive, as they are most commonly stuck in the system they spawned in. (key word... commonly, not always, but more likely than not) FSD's eat up a lot of a ship's overall weight. Take that FSD down a few notches, and you could potentially have a FAS that could outrun a fully A rated FDL, simply because it weighs significantly "less".
My last hint for you: Take away some weight... and your ship will take longer to lose speed after you use your boost... you will in essence be going faster, more. After 1 or 2 consecutive boosts, your ship will be going it's absolute top speed for it's current configuration.
I am saying all of this NOT to be a jerk...regardless of how anyone takes it, my being snarky is a result of everyone beating a dead horse OVER and OVER and OVER again. I'm saying it because I like this game too, and also because I "want" to like this game more than I already do, and it's hard enough as it is with whatever problems "everyone" might experience, without having to read such craptastic assumptions, accustations, and speculation... all of which do absolutely no good for anyone!
Some players like to crab at everyone who are having issues by saying "git gud", not me... I would say something more like, "If everyone spent as much time and effort making sure they knew WTH they are talking about as they do complaining... there would be less problems and more time to spend fixing them!"
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I'm just amazed at the lack of anything coming from FD.
Are they going to nerf the AI some more ?
Are they going to get rid of some more of the Engineering mods on higher level NPCs ?
Are they going to "up" the bounties to at least cover the damage our ships are now taking even when we win ?
(I've "won" and still lost because I didn't have time to even KWS - and ended up with a repair bill anyway).
Are they going to reduce the number of interdictions ?
(Personally - sending an Elite & highly modded FDLs & anacondas against my trade cutter - I just run - no point fighting, I've no problem Sir Robin'ing - just, whats the point?)
Or, possibly more worryingly, are they "happy" with things as they stand ?
I'm not arguing that any of these are "right" things to do - but it would be nice to know where we stand.
As someone else said - their silence is deafening.
I personally would love to know some stats from them.
Average # rebuys/day before 2.1 & after 2.1
Number of interdictions ending in players running away before/after
Number of interdictions ending in players "winning" before/after
Number of people just "giving up" 'cos we cant "get gud" (ie - numbers online)
Amount spent on repairs before/after
How many people outside the bubble before/after (now hiding)
Number of people who suddenly decide its the right time to go make a coffee when they see "Thats the ship I'm looking for" come up on the comms
etc etc
Are they going to nerf the AI some more ?
Are they going to get rid of some more of the Engineering mods on higher level NPCs ?
Are they going to "up" the bounties to at least cover the damage our ships are now taking even when we win ?
(I've "won" and still lost because I didn't have time to even KWS - and ended up with a repair bill anyway).
Are they going to reduce the number of interdictions ?
(Personally - sending an Elite & highly modded FDLs & anacondas against my trade cutter - I just run - no point fighting, I've no problem Sir Robin'ing - just, whats the point?)
Or, possibly more worryingly, are they "happy" with things as they stand ?
I'm not arguing that any of these are "right" things to do - but it would be nice to know where we stand.
As someone else said - their silence is deafening.
I personally would love to know some stats from them.
Average # rebuys/day before 2.1 & after 2.1
Number of interdictions ending in players running away before/after
Number of interdictions ending in players "winning" before/after
Number of people just "giving up" 'cos we cant "get gud" (ie - numbers online)
Amount spent on repairs before/after
How many people outside the bubble before/after (now hiding)
Number of people who suddenly decide its the right time to go make a coffee when they see "Thats the ship I'm looking for" come up on the comms
etc etc
--nods approvingly--
I suspect the reason there's silence is that they're working hard and gathering stats and don't (yet) have anything concrete to tell us. They've already said they're adding 'favours' to the engineers, that's a lot of code. Maybe they're doing other things as well, (please let it be storage, pretty please), but from the start of ED development FD have often gone quiet when they're just getting on with stuff.
Leave them be and they'll talk when they're ready. They work really, really hard and genuinely care about the game, and us, and when they can they'll give us a update.
I second that thought. I want to believe that the developers are working on improving the situation. Yes it's tough but it's not the end of the world (for most at least). I'm a software engineer myself and I know how it goes when your code has issues. On the other hand a brief announcement like "We are looking into the reports" or "We are working on a fix" or even "No, everything is all right - this is what the galaxy has become" would be welcome. It doesn't need to be descriptive. Just a brief announcement to let us know what they think of all this turbulence.
Unlike the poster above, I do not have insight into the working habits, culture etc of the team. From the youtube videos I have seen they seem like nice guys who care – and I wish them success. But 1.6/2.1 is a shoddy product to release. More like a beta – given the apparent bugs at a software and player (what you are expected to do is insane) level. Yes all software has bugs, but several of these should have been found in functional and beta testing.
Doing something wrong, hmmmm let me think, nah. I got nailed both times in around 15-20 seconds by an NPC with insta kill weapons due to the bug, and it appears im not the only one, glad the bug will be sorted soon so I can get the FDL out again. Dont get me wrong I like a good scrap the AI before NPC's were like shooting ducks in a barrel, im glad there tougher now.
That bug was hotfixed shortly after 2.1 went live, you can come out of your shell now.
Hey guys,
We wanted to share a quick update with you to let you know how the investigation into the NPC AI has been progressing after the removal of the Engineers weapons for the NPCs and what the next steps are.
The development team have been hard at work investigating these bugs. To give you a little more information, it appears that the unusual weapons attacks were caused by some form of networking issue which allowed the NPC AI to merge weapon stats and abilities. Meaning that all new and never before seen (sometimes devastating) weapons were created, such as a rail gun with the fire rate of a pulse laser. These appear to have been compounded by the additional stats and abilities of the engineers weaponry. (We don’t think the AI became sentient in a Skynet-style uprising!
The bug fix is expected to go live in our next point release which is planned for the end of this week/early next week but we’ll have more news on the exact time in the normal patch notes forum.
I would just like to take this opportunity to clarify a few misconceptions. The AI has in no way been reduced, it remains the glorious, improved version from the update. The only action that we’ve taken so far has been to remove the engineer weapons to allow us to investigate the issue and address a key bug. Once this bug fix goes live we’ll be able to see how the AI is performing and then, over time, should we feel that the balancing is right to introduce a very select few high end engineers weapons to the highest ranked NPCs we will investigate that option. However, that won’t be immediately as we want to ensure that the balance is just right.
Edit: Please note this point update will be PC specific and the Xbox One update will need to follow after. We'll let you know as soon as we have more information.
Apologies if this has been answered before, but since this particular bug has made the news across the 'net, I would ask for someone to explain to me: This weapons creation bug, was it a bug that made the AI cheat, or just exploit the crafting system in ways that are technically legal, but were just not foreseen and intended by the development team?
The main bug was to do with AI's ending up with unexpected combinations of weapon attributes via "dangling pointers" in the code. These left them with things like railguns with the fire rate of a multi-canon or a beam laser with the damage model of a fragment canon.
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I got a question. Wasn't the chances of running into an "Elite" NPC reduced? Because last night when I would hop into supercruise I would get a comms "I want what's in your hold!" message from an Elite FDL. This happened 3 times. 3! But you know what I did. I played your game and turned it into my favor. I was in a Civil War system. So every time I saw that message pop up I would high tail it into a Checkpoint. OMG that was hilarious! The Elite FDL would pop in there with me and guess who were waiting. 6 Elite good guy NPCs! They lit him up with me firing as well laughing all the way to the explosion.
But really, wasn't the chance of running into an Elite reduced? And he still didn't drop any worth while materials.
But really, wasn't the chance of running into an Elite reduced? And he still didn't drop any worth while materials.
I personally have not seen that many elite NPC'S, I guess it depends on the RNG. But high points for you for not combat logging and using the system's war status to your favor in such a innovative way. That's what it's all about "Playing the game". Great job Commander!!I got a question. Wasn't the chances of running into an "Elite" NPC reduced? Because last night when I would hop into supercruise I would get a comms "I want what's in your hold!" message from an Elite FDL. This happened 3 times. 3! But you know what I did. I played your game and turned it into my favor. I was in a Civil War system. So every time I saw that message pop up I would high tail it into a Checkpoint. OMG that was hilarious! The Elite FDL would pop in there with me and guess who were waiting. 6 Elite good guy NPCs! They lit him up with me firing as well laughing all the way to the explosion.
But really, wasn't the chance of running into an Elite reduced? And he still didn't drop any worth while materials.
I have not noticed. I seem to get interdicted by only Elite, with their new weapons (impulse attack, thermal attack), missile spam and wonderful flying abilities. Please Frontier send me a fish a barrel so I can try my new weapon loadout. I might beat the Ellite interdicator but the cost in repairs (or insurance for a kitted anaconda) is just too great. I have just stopped my 'relaxing take a break from res combat' trading, because of the frequency of never-ending interdictions. I just run now, but when it gets to three in a row from the same bot on the same journey from star to the station I tend to ESC, save to menu and restart. It is sooooooo tedious.
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Thanks. So, does this mean the weapons these NPC's created could never have been created by players?
I believe so yes. As I understand it the behaviour of all weapons is determined by adjusting the same (fairly large) set of variables. The player is allowed control (via outfitting and egineers) over these within tightly controlled bounds (i.e. so they can't change their pulse laser into a canon) but of course a bug in the code is capable of mxing things up in all sorts of unexpected ways.
There is an excellent video that explains how to evade destruction using the methods 777Driver is talking about. 4 pips to sys and 2 pips to engines after submitting and then floor it while corkscrewing away from the incoming dumbfire missiles until the FSD is charged. The error in the video presented here is obvious to all.
I can't believe it! I actually made it from Gas Giant Ring to Base with a load of ore worth over 1 Million Cr and didn't get jumped by a pirate. And to top it off, made a successful mission run of goods across 3 systems without an interdiction. Woohoo! I'm back in business....Maybe. I guess I shouldn't count my chickens before they hatch...as the old saying goes. The FSD still takes too long to charge.
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Well I am done with elite I guess. Too bad I really liked this game but now the AI is just absurd. Just not fun for me anymore. Unfortunatley I see that many people like the AI so I it looks like Frontier will keep it. It is interesting how my favorite game of all time almost instantly became a game I won't play. Thanks I feel better - bye all.
I'm getting that way - with no news that things are going to change..
You can't change the levels of difficulty by an order of magnitude and pretend its the same game...
You can't expect me to compete with Elite NPCs kitted out with A-grade, "good rolled" engineer level 5 equipment (excluding weapons) - when there's next to no chance I'll be able to do that (level 5 thrusters need Palin, which needs Marco, which needs Elvira.)
Its just an unfunny joke.
Remove *all* Engineer mods from *all* NPCs and give us a fair fight, even if you keep the new AI.
And- for all your "git guds" - just downgrade your ships if *you* need more of a challenge..