News NPC AI update

The latest newsletter had nothing about the AI situation and this silence has been considered that FD sees the new situation as final. Some people in this forum have strongly supported the new AI.

I think that's a massive presumption that leads to breed frustration. Any sensible product owner does not make comments on the fly. You don't say something until you are sure what you are going to say, because once it is said, you can't go back.

This is a tricky situation. You look at the forums this month - for a whole week all I saw were people angrily declaring that the final beta version had a wimpy AI and that FDev were carebear pandering, since a few days since release, it seems to be people finding the AI too hard. On top of that you've got very strong opinions on RNG even after decisions have been declared to bring reputation into the special FX. That maybe not enough, which is a big deal to consider, because before you can say anything, you have to know what you are going to do and whether or not what you want to do can be implemented. That could be big code changes.

Until you know what route forward you take, you don't speak. Certainly you wait a few weeks for the dust to settle on a new version to see how it is faring.

I appreciate the frustration - I want to know what the Dev plans are, but don't take silence as meaning decisions are finalised. These are just very difficult decisions to process, especially when you have such different expectations from players. Give them space. :)
 
From what i understand the AI npc that interdict you are selected based on the CMDRs rank etc so in effect a CMDR is flagged as a certain type for the AI then to pull out an NPC to pirate you.

So, to keep everyone happy all they need do is implement an option to select hardness of NPC in the options panel which would flag you as only interested in normal AI and not the Elites or Dangerous ones etc.

Having an option would cure everything.
For rez site with low keep the NPC AI low and dumb and for harder stick in harder ones that not only kill you but do horrible things to your frozen corpse for good measure.

It's a no brainer, give us an option to choose the hardness level and not have it heaped on us for no reason other than the "Git Gud" crowd wanted it so.

My 2p.
 
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Hello, sorry for my English, it's Google translate....

I'm 42 and I do not play that often.
I have a family and I can not spend all my time on a game. Elite is for me an exception.
Only since the 2.1 update, I do not find any pleasure in playing. I'm not a fighter pilot, I'm not a "hardcore gamer" ...
The AI is too strong for me, all the better if some gets there, but not me.
I just regret the time I spent on this game and the supplements I paid horizon or the paint to my ships.
I find most interest the limited engineering system too complicated, requiring still spend hours to find the resources.
Thank you remove this update, or return to the previous AI.
I played an hour a day in the evening, I have to be 2heure a week ....
I think without correction, I will stop playing ... yours, Need for speed is from 70 to 35 € ...



Simply allowing , players , to hire NPC too wing with them, if their Trade running , RES mining , would allow , those busy LIVES , to play

as tying too find players too wing with, when your a casual player is impossible , given the 'MMO' of 32 players , you never ever see, and can't communicate with

If you bounty hunting / smuggling , then your on your own...!
 
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One thing that seems to have been overlooked in all of this is that your AI experience now varies vastly depending on what system you're in. I've been some places where I can mine until the cows come home and the only NPCs I'll meet are Authority and other miners. Jump just one system over, and they're all out to get me. Security response also depends on the type of system and Anrachy systems can now be terrifyingly dangerous places (which is as it shold be).

My point is: if you're finding the AI a bit harsh, try going somewhere else for a bit, and you'll probsbly find somewhere that fits with your playstyle.
 
One thing that seems to have been overlooked in all of this is that your AI experience now varies vastly depending on what system you're in. I've been some places where I can mine until the cows come home and the only NPCs I'll meet are Authority and other miners. Jump just one system over, and they're all out to get me. Security response also depends on the type of system and Anrachy systems can now be terrifyingly dangerous places (which is as it shold be).

My point is: if you're finding the AI a bit harsh, try going somewhere else for a bit, and you'll probsbly find somewhere that fits with your playstyle.

This is probably what I'm coming against. Before 2.1 it did not matter where I went I could always come out on top of the AI. Now it appears that I have to be careful again, like 30 years ago.

Playing a couple of hours a week, only to get wasted each time, wiping out my whole two hours play, I was seriously thinking of dumping the game. A shame considering my investment in it. Now, I will give it another chance and see if this hardness is really a security based thing. Otherwise, there's no point in playing.
 
Warning! Thermal Attack.....gaining Heat.
Warning! Impulse Attack.
Warning! Malfunction Attack.....Chaff Launcher malfunction.
All from Dangerous or Deadly NPC´s
This Game is official a Newbie and Casual Enemy.
And there is no Chance to get the paid Money back.
 
This is probably what I'm coming against. Before 2.1 it did not matter where I went I could always come out on top of the AI. Now it appears that I have to be careful again, like 30 years ago.

Playing a couple of hours a week, only to get wasted each time, wiping out my whole two hours play, I was seriously thinking of dumping the game. A shame considering my investment in it. Now, I will give it another chance and see if this hardness is really a security based thing. Otherwise, there's no point in playing.

Yep, I'm with you buddy. Grinded for over a year to get a beautiful Imperial Cutter, only for it to be wiped out in seconds... I'm a casual player as well or at least used to be, I'll be exploring in a cheap ship or not playing; I thought the previous AI balance was absolutely fine: you wouldn't/couldn't take on a Python in an Eagle but now my Cutter doesn't stand a chance against a Vulture or even Cobra. Bad form! Ruined a perfectly playable and most enjoyable game.
 
From what i understand the AI npc that interdict you are selected based on the CMDRs rank etc so in effect a CMDR is flagged as a certain type for the AI then to pull out an NPC to pirate you.

So, to keep everyone happy all they need do is implement an option to select hardness of NPC in the options panel which would flag you as only interested in normal AI and not the Elites or Dangerous ones etc.

Having an option would cure everything.
For rez site with low keep the NPC AI low and dumb and for harder stick in harder ones that not only kill you but do horrible things to your frozen corpse for good measure.

It's a no brainer, give us an option to choose the hardness level and not have it heaped on us for no reason other than the "Git Gud" crowd wanted it so.

My 2p.

I 100% agree CMDR.

I am fortunate to have played enough to enjoy the enjoyable things the game HAD to offer yet have not invested as much as many have that makes stepping away and engaging other games with the same vigor difficult. As it is, the game is really only playable for the rez bounty hunters...and thats fun for a while and its really a small aspect of the game and to have that now the only viable aspect kinda makes one wonder.
 
The AI seems to be getting a bad rap, both in this thread and elsewhere. The AI is what determines how an NPC reacts and behaves after you encounter it. It governs battle tactics, among other things. I don't think the game having a bit tougher AI is a bad thing.

However, the real problem is with the way encounters are generated by the game. The Encounter Generator (which I'll call the 'EG' from now on) is way out of whack, IMO. I have a couple of examples. The most recent for me was an interdiction, which occurred in High Sec space. I'd been living near the edge of the bubble with a medium security system serving as my base. In all the multitude of times I entered and left the system, I'd never been interdicted. Then I went looking for a ship upgrade. The first High Security system I entered, I was interdicted by a Master Wanted Asp Scout. I'm a Novice and was flying an AspX, but in exploration mode, and hence not a real match for my attacker. Just to be clear, I had no cargo, not even a cargo bay. And I was interdicted and attacked in high security space just a few light seconds from a starbase. And that after having made many mining trips with millions of credits of metals in a medium security system and not a single interdiction to or from the base.

My second example has to do with mining. Every single time I enter a planetary ring or asteroid belt, and this is in empty space outside the bubble, within less that five seconds, a gang of NPC's appears within sensor range. First time it happened, I jumped back out of the ring and then popped back in in a random location. Another gang appeared. EVERY SINGLE TIME I entered a ring or belt, I was molested by NPC's. This is beyond ridiculous! I could boost away from them out of sensor range and then begin mining, at least until I left a few unwanted minerals behind. Then another group would appear, apparently impossibly attracted by my leftovers. Let me reiterate, this is in unoccupied systems outside the bubble. BTW, it also happens in unoccupied systems inside the bubble. I expect it also happens in occupied systems, but I've been avoiding mining in those. One other thing it does, it makes mining asteroid belts virtually impossible. You enter a belt with a mining ship and get immediately jumped by several NPC's equipped for full combat. You have no choice but to immediately leave.

So, as we can see, it's not the AI itself that's the problem. It's the EG. I'm heading out into the wild with my AspX for some long term exploration, avoiding the nasty EG for a while. It's a shame, because I enoy all aspects of the game - mining, exploring, fighting, trading, mission running, etc. IMO, most encounters with NPC's should be player generated. The exceptions, of course, are when a player enters dangerous systems especially when carrying valuable cargo, or when the player is in either a powerplay or some other conflict situation where combat is expected. Random encounters when the player isn't carrying anything valuable and not looking for trouble should be rare, not something that occurs everytime you enter or leave a system or base. Constantly forcing the player into combat does not make for a fun experience in this kind of game.
 
I just left Sag A for the return trip and have been well away from the bubble for the entire 2.1 release. Has anyone experienced "death by interdiction" simply for carrying a lot of exploration data? Having not seen another vessel for months, my fighting and running skills are a bit rusty, and that's an insult to rust.
 
I just left Sag A for the return trip and have been well away from the bubble for the entire 2.1 release. Has anyone experienced "death by interdiction" simply for carrying a lot of exploration data? Having not seen another vessel for months, my fighting and running skills are a bit rusty, and that's an insult to rust.

There is always the chance of being interdicted, not specifically for exploration data though. Npc pirates will pull you out, scan you and usually if you have nothing to drop they will open fire.

Normal rules still apply on returning from an exploration trip, namely:

-Choose a safe system on the edge of the bubble, mine is Caucuma :)

-Whatever your chosen system, make sure it has a station/outpost close to the main star to minimise time spent in supercruise.

-If you jump into a system and see a message from an npc pop up "tasty cargo" or "glad I found you first" etc... immediately jump to another system, dont give them time to interdict you. You can jump back afterwards, they'll probably be gone. If you don't think you have time to high-wake before they can interdict, then drop out of supercruise, boost away in any direction, select a system and high-wake out. This will force the npc to travel to your low wake point and drop in, buying you a few extra seconds (often 20 seconds or more).

-If you're still really paranoid, contact Iridium wing. They're awesome and will escort you in :)
 
I just left Sag A for the return trip and have been well away from the bubble for the entire 2.1 release. Has anyone experienced "death by interdiction" simply for carrying a lot of exploration data? Having not seen another vessel for months, my fighting and running skills are a bit rusty, and that's an insult to rust.

Heck, I've got the "death by interdiction" without carrying any cargo or any exploration data! Was coming back from delivering Aisling Duval fortification propaganda. Was completely empty. Since 2.1, I'm regularly interdicted for no reason.

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The AI seems to be getting a bad rap, both in this thread and elsewhere. The AI is what determines how an NPC reacts and behaves after you encounter it. It governs battle tactics, among other things. I don't think the game having a bit tougher AI is a bad thing.

However, the real problem is with the way encounters are generated by the game. The Encounter Generator (which I'll call the 'EG' from now on) is way out of whack, IMO. I have a couple of examples. The most recent for me was an interdiction, which occurred in High Sec space. I'd been living near the edge of the bubble with a medium security system serving as my base. In all the multitude of times I entered and left the system, I'd never been interdicted. Then I went looking for a ship upgrade. The first High Security system I entered, I was interdicted by a Master Wanted Asp Scout. I'm a Novice and was flying an AspX, but in exploration mode, and hence not a real match for my attacker. Just to be clear, I had no cargo, not even a cargo bay. And I was interdicted and attacked in high security space just a few light seconds from a starbase. And that after having made many mining trips with millions of credits of metals in a medium security system and not a single interdiction to or from the base.

My second example has to do with mining. Every single time I enter a planetary ring or asteroid belt, and this is in empty space outside the bubble, within less that five seconds, a gang of NPC's appears within sensor range. First time it happened, I jumped back out of the ring and then popped back in in a random location. Another gang appeared. EVERY SINGLE TIME I entered a ring or belt, I was molested by NPC's. This is beyond ridiculous! I could boost away from them out of sensor range and then begin mining, at least until I left a few unwanted minerals behind. Then another group would appear, apparently impossibly attracted by my leftovers. Let me reiterate, this is in unoccupied systems outside the bubble. BTW, it also happens in unoccupied systems inside the bubble. I expect it also happens in occupied systems, but I've been avoiding mining in those. One other thing it does, it makes mining asteroid belts virtually impossible. You enter a belt with a mining ship and get immediately jumped by several NPC's equipped for full combat. You have no choice but to immediately leave.

So, as we can see, it's not the AI itself that's the problem. It's the EG. I'm heading out into the wild with my AspX for some long term exploration, avoiding the nasty EG for a while. It's a shame, because I enoy all aspects of the game - mining, exploring, fighting, trading, mission running, etc. IMO, most encounters with NPC's should be player generated. The exceptions, of course, are when a player enters dangerous systems especially when carrying valuable cargo, or when the player is in either a powerplay or some other conflict situation where combat is expected. Random encounters when the player isn't carrying anything valuable and not looking for trouble should be rare, not something that occurs everytime you enter or leave a system or base. Constantly forcing the player into combat does not make for a fun experience in this kind of game.

Very good point. I've been interdicted countless of times for what's in my cargo hold except that I DON'T CARRY ANYTHING!
 
Ok, had an interdiction ratio from 3,75 today. Felt really relaxing, considering the constant interdiction in the last days. Seems like i had a good day. ^^
But most of the interdicting ships where Elite Anacondas. Good that they are to slow to get me, if they pulled me out. Good way is lurk them to the station and if it doesn't have a large no weapon zone, wait until they are heavily damaged and then enter the fight. Easy credits. ;)

Only painful was, that one of the interdicting Anacondas (this one was Dangerous) was piloted by BonBon.
Now i even have to fight ponies to protect my ship. And she wasn't even able to take some hard hits from me.
http://mlpfanart.wikia.com/wiki/Bon_Bon

There is always the chance of being interdicted, not specifically for exploration data though. Npc pirates will pull you out, scan you and usually if you have nothing to drop they will open fire.
Ok, i personally wouldn't call this pirate, more griefer. :p

Btw. actually start aswell to get a bit worried, that there hasn't been any word from Frontier. Actually gets me to think, that they might take the 'Whatever!' route again. If they are pleased with the result and likes how dangerous the game is, i fear that they won't be any changes, independent of the opinion of the community. Happend before, that Frontier didn't care about the community. [rolleyes]
 
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AI is awesome.

But the mechanics that govern the NPC interaction is absolutely rubbish! Like others has stated, getting into roid rings outside the bubble only to encounter a group of random NPCs is silly. even. And the interdiction mechanics is so simply made it's hilarious.

But the AI itself is absolutely wonderful!
 
I've never understood this with ED, why the hell the devs don't implemented this simple bit of code, IF player ship empty, THEN don't attack, move on. I have no issue being interdicted, but don't understand why NPC ships attack empty player ships. This simple line of code would prevent that. Older games have it, about time ED put this bit of code in, would stop a lot of random senseless attacks and lower the blood pressure of most players. Rep would still be a factor but even so, would make a welcome improvement to AI behaviour

Thankfully not playing the game until some sort of fix comes out regarding NPC behaviour as i refuse to lose my money i've built up over a year of playing to really bad programming. This isn't the game anymore that i invested money in when i signed up on Kickstarter but an exceedingly poor imitation
 
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I've never understood this with ED, why the hell the devs don't implemented this simple bit of code, IF player ship empty, THEN don't attack, move on.

I don't think this will happen. Why? ...because the AI shouldn't know what's in your cargo hold, or if you even have one, until they've done a cargo scan. The "fix" is more likely to be to remove the initial silly messages from the AI that talk about how tasty your cargo is etc.
 
I don't think this will happen. Why? ...because the AI shouldn't know what's in your cargo hold, or if you even have one, until they've done a cargo scan. The "fix" is more likely to be to remove the initial silly messages from the AI that talk about how tasty your cargo is etc.

...except they are knowing of your cargo. See mission related NPCs. The pirating ones should then give 5 to 10 seconds to drop something after giving you some first shots. E.g. "You've 5 secs to drop your cargo, or you will be dust!"
(it takes some time to find the switches for dropping)

Regards,
Miklos
 
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...except they are knowing of your cargo. See mission related NPCs. The pirating ones should then give 5 to 10 seconds to drop something after giving you some first shots. E.g. "You've 5 secs to drop your cargo, or you will be dust!"
(it takes some time to find the switches for dropping)

Sure but that's not what Gibbon was talking about, which is what I was responding to. Missions are a different cup of tea altogether.
 
The bug fix is expected to go live in our next point release which is planned for the end of this week/early next week but we’ll have more news on the exact time in the normal patch notes forum.



Edit: Please note this point update will be PC specific and the Xbox One update will need to follow after. We'll let you know as soon as we have more information.

...is this actually live yet?
 
From my point of view it is nice to know that the AI could be strong enough if it had to be... If you are a head hunter you can have challenging fights with special pirate lord or exciting fights with none player ships in conflict zones
But... for randomly attacking pirates the AI is a way to strong! Also the scaling between novice and elite opponents seems to be not reasonable... Additionally the frequency of being interdicted is not feeling like intended it's more feeling like a bug. For new, casual, untalented player or even for people how find there way in being pacifist, all the explorers, miners and traders the game becomes nearly unplayable or at least not enjoyable!
Greetings Adiri
 
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