News NPC AI update

[coca_fr]

Have to say, that made me laugh as well.

Have to say, that made me laugh as well.

I was taking down Anacondas, Fer de Lance (AI) before the update, last time i played was 4 months ago.

I would had take down that Vulture if security force didn't came in.

But well i have to say the new AI is really an improvement as fight are a lot more interesting !

 

[Cybermykl]

I am sorry but open is not just for PvP. I play exclusively in open and in nearly two years have only had 1 PvP encounter. I like the added challenge (I am no combat pilot, infact i suck at it), but before the update the AI was so easy, even when it didn't bug out, I didn't have to think about it.

Now it isn't easy, and I need to adapt to the new challange and the way the AI works.

What are you doing when in combat and what ships are you fighting and what ship are you in?

There is loads of help in the forums, with people better then me that can give you pointers on where you maybe going wrong.

CMDR Max, I certainly understand what you mean when you say you've only had 1 PVP encounter. I too used to play exclusively in SOLO but have recently gone OPEN because what's the difference? There seems to be as much inequality in SOLO as they use to rag about in OPEN. I mean the NPC upgrade. You know, I thought when I bought E.D. that we'd be a group of players who fought for supremacy over the galaxy and occasionally each other for bragging rights, you might say, but lately, the chances of an actual player encounter are few and far between. We now cow-tow to the AI. Is it because you can't find someone else in your sandbox to play with, or because the other person doesn't want to play and they want to play alone. Like this guy, he just wants to play alone in his own sandbox - arcarde fashion - with the chance to win something. What's wrong with that? Nothing. Let it be. Frontier isn't listening to the people who bought the sandbox game, they are listening to those who want a shooting gallery. I for one, want both, but in order to have both, there needs to be some balance. Right now, there is no balance. The scales have tipped into the shooting gallery's favor.

 

[coca_fr]

To be fair, a Vulture should eat a maxed out Cobra for Breakfast in a fight. It has better shields, better fire power and far better manouverability. In that situation, your best bet is to run as you should have a better top speed.

A Cobra is a multi purpose ship, its not the best at anything, but good at a lot of roles, but putting your 350000 credit multirole cobra against a 5 million dedicated combat ship like a Vulture is asking for trouble. Pick your fights more carefully.

I agree with you. It should be like that.

Oh well i can say good buy to my 1 Millions Cr / hours on RES !

I should have grind more instead of stop playing ED for 4 months. Now grinding will be even harder.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

I was taking down Anacondas, Fer de Lance (AI) before the update, last time i played was 4 months ago.

I would had take down that Vulture if security force didn't came in.

But well i have to say the new AI is really an improvement as fight are a lot more interesting !

Yeah, you were taking down Pythons and Anacondas flown by lobotomized AI pilots. You are basically confirming the point that the AI isn't intolerably hard, just more competent.

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I agree with you. It should be like that.

Oh well i can say good buy to my 1 Millions Cr / hours on RES !

I should have grind more instead of stop playing ED for 4 months. Now grinding will be even harder.

Just don't grind. I go out to RES's for about 30-40 minutes & make between 100,000-400,000 credits. Then I go do something else for a bit.

 

[Insomnia]

Yeah, you were taking down Pythons and Anacondas flown by lobotomized AI pilots. You are basically confirming the point that the AI isn't intolerably hard, just more competent.

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Just don't grind. I go out to RES's for about 30-40 minutes & make between 100,000-400,000 credits. Then I go do something else for a bit.

Agreed 100%. Pre 2.1 we had the death spinning NPCs which just proves the fact that the AI pre 2.1 was, as stated, lobotomized. Coming from that, and start fighting the 2.1 AI the same way you fought the old AI will of course make you surprised by the sheer level of improvement the AI has received. It wasn't going from 1 to 100. It was like going from -100 to 0.
I'm wondering why people are claiming the AI to be too hard. But if you're in a Cobra trying to kill Anacondas, well, what did you expect? You don't have to be a top pilot to kill NPCs. Just treat them with respect and try to outmaneuver them instead. No stay out from HazRES. Start in low, then go high. Learn. Don't think of profits. Think about how you can beat them. Tough AI doesn't belong just in Open, it belongs in all modes and groups. How interesting would Elite Dangerous really be after 10 years if your only challenge was to make the credits flow just faster?

 

[Lorddenny]

Guys please ... Yesterday i was in my t7 .... I was thinking .... Lets give it another try and see if stuf improved.

Played a while .... No interdiction ... Made a few mil trading ( up from 15.4 to 18 )

Then interdiction ... Escaped ... Yiha .... Load indium .... Another interdiction.

Submit ... Boost .... Shield 4 pips ... Target next system .... Press J

At the point of targeting next system already half my shield where gone ( secconds ) .... Jumping ... MASS LOCKED ... Few secs later BOOM

So grinded 1.5 hours ... Killed in few secs and ended with 15.2 mil ( -200K ) after 1.5 hours of playing.

Is this fun ??????????? NOPE

And whatever the positive people are saying ... This is not fun if you like to trade. Also the positives will not say " well that was fun ! " when that happens to them.

Sure you should get killed in a game. But you should get a chance also !

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Guys please ... Yesterday i was in my t7 .... I was thinking .... Lets give it another try and see if stuf improved.

Played a while .... No interdiction ... Made a few mil trading ( up from 15.4 to 18 )

Then interdiction ... Escaped ... Yiha .... Load indium .... Another interdiction.

Submit ... Boost .... Shield 4 pips ... Target next system .... Press J

At the point of targeting next system already half my shield where gone ( secconds ) .... Jumping ... MASS LOCKED ... Few secs later BOOM

So grinded 1.5 hours ... Killed in few secs and ended with 15.2 mil ( -200K ) after 1.5 hours of playing.

Is this fun ??????????? NOPE

And whatever the positive people are saying ... This is not fun if you like to trade. Also the positives will not say " well that was fun ! " when that happens to them.

Sure you should get killed in a game. But you should get a chance also !

You cannot be mass locked jumping to another system, only when going into supercruise, so you made a mistake by trying to escape via supercruise. Learn from it. And the Type 7 isn't called the coffin for nothing, it is one of the worst ships there is. Stick to a type 6 (one of the fastest out there). You will be much more survivable and make sure you have top specced A rated shields and shield boosters.

I also have to question what shields you were using as well for them to go down that quickly. If it was 4D shields, then yes your shields will be just slightly stronger then a Sidewinders shields. They will go down in seconds. Fit 6A shield and a load of boosters, yep less cargo space, but far more survivable I would say. Fit top rated thrusters as well to increase your speed.

Here is load out that should help:
https://coriolis.io/outfit/type_7_t...---060606064f05040402030101.Iw18aQ==.Aw18aQ==

or this is even better more cargo and more shields, less speed, but as you are jumping to another system you don't need speed:
https://coriolis.io/outfit/type_7_t...---0404040405054a0402030101.Iw18aQ==.Aw18aQ==

But the type 7 is not a good ship I would stick to a type 6 (type 6 can outrun most ships) untill I can afford something more survivable like an Imperial clipper and then a python.

 

[Insomnia]

Yeah that must have sucked... Big time.
You escaped the first interdiction though. That's a start.
I understand your frustration mate. Maybe upgrade your shields, or thrusters, FSD etc. We're you using chaffs? Remember not to hyperjump, jump to super cruise instead before hyperjumping. And also, if you realise you'll getting interdicted, even if you try to win it, submit. Submit, boost, chaffs and as soon you boost the second time your FSD is ready to charge.

Interdictions are a pain in the a, that's for sure. Good luck!

 

[Lorddenny]

Jup made the supercruise mistake. Point is .... Killed in secs in my 27 mil T7. Have shield boosters also.

To be honest ... I do not even think i would have made it jumping to another system. And jup have chaff also ...

NPC did not use any rockets ... Energy against shields and then burned a hole with a beam laser. It took a few seconds to put me out of my missery . Not even time to check his inteligence ... Perhaps he was very dumb in flying ... Does not matter because this guy nuked me

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

CMDR Max, I certainly understand what you mean when you say you've only had 1 PVP encounter. I too used to play exclusively in SOLO but have recently gone OPEN because what's the difference? There seems to be as much inequality in SOLO as they use to rag about in OPEN. I mean the NPC upgrade. You know, I thought when I bought E.D. that we'd be a group of players who fought for supremacy over the galaxy and occasionally each other for bragging rights, you might say, but lately, the chances of an actual player encounter are few and far between. We now cow-tow to the AI. Is it because you can't find someone else in your sandbox to play with, or because the other person doesn't want to play and they want to play alone. Like this guy, he just wants to play alone in his own sandbox - arcarde fashion - with the chance to win something. What's wrong with that? Nothing. Let it be. Frontier isn't listening to the people who bought the sandbox game, they are listening to those who want a shooting gallery. I for one, want both, but in order to have both, there needs to be some balance. Right now, there is no balance. The scales have tipped into the shooting gallery's favor.

I do not undertand what you are saying at all. I have never played for PvP, it's not my cup of tea. None of my friends play the game, that is the reason I am generally a lone pilot. At the moment I am playing in a group for the crab nebula exploration trip, and having some really nice interations with the other pilots. I am a play alone or play with people player, not a player versus player. This game has never been about fighting for supremacy over the galaxy and I very much doubt it will be.

I am all for people playing in solo, and I have no problems with it, the the poster said open was for PvP only. It is not and completely untrue. People do not want a shooting gallery, that is what we had before with the AI, you know a target that just sat there waiting to be shot at and not firing back. The AI is about where it should be or very close to it. Harmless AI is still very easy and most of the time fly around without any shields, it gets progressively better the better the higher the combat rank they are as it should do.

I am mostly a Trader and explorer myself. I am not good at combat, like the negative posters here, but I am willing to learn and get better at avoiding, escaping, and sometimes fighting my way out of trouble. As I have said, there is plenty of advice here on the forum for people who are having problems, why can't they read it and take it.

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Jup made the supercruise mistake. Point is .... Killed in secs in my 27 mil T7. Have shield boosters also.

To be honest ... I do not even think i would have made it jumping to another system. And jup have chaff also ...

NPC did not use any rockets ... Energy against shields and then burned a hole with a beam laser. It took a few seconds to put me out of my missery ��. Not even time to check his inteligence ... Perhaps he was very dumb in flying ... Does not matter because this guy nuked me ��

What shields do you have? The only issues are the continual interdictions, which FD are looking at. The AI is in the right area. As I said though the T7 is one of the worst ships out there. Go back to a T6, it out runs most ships. Also what was the ship that interdicted you? Sometimes you can drop cargo and they will scoop it up and you can escape that way as well. Also put some military grade armour on as well, that will help as well.

Just recently I had my Cobra's Cargo hatch blown off and lost all my cargo. I had to reboot and repair my thruster to get going. But then security turned up and stared attacking the pirate, with my shields back up, i turned around and helped. That was a great experience for me, was great fun even though I lost all my cargo, but what a bit of virtual money compared to the fun I just had.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

I do not undertand what you are saying at all. I have never played for PvP, it's not my cup of tea. None of my friends play the game, that is the reason I am generally a lone pilot. At the moment I am playing in a group for the crab nebula exploration trip, and having some really nice interations with the other pilots. I am a play alone or play with people player, not a player versus player. This game has never been about fighting for supremacy over the galaxy and I very much doubt it will be.

I am all for people playing in solo, and I have no problems with it, the the poster said open was for PvP only. It is not and completely untrue. People do not want a shooting gallery, that is what we had before with the AI, you know a target that just sat there waiting to be shot at and not firing back. The AI is about where it should be or very close to it. Harmless AI is still very easy and most of the time fly around without any shields, it gets progressively better the better the higher the combat rank they are as it should do.

I am mostly a Trader and explorer myself. I am not good at combat, like the negative posters here, but I am willing to learn and get better at avoiding, escaping, and sometimes fighting my way out of trouble. As I have said, there is plenty of advice here on the forum for people who are having problems, why can't they read it and take it.

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What shields do you have? The only issues are the continual interdictions, which FD are looking at. The AI is in the right area. As I said though the T7 is one of the worst ships out there. Go back to a T6, it out runs most ships. Also what was the ship that interdicted you? Sometimes you can drop cargo and they will scoop it up and you can escape that way as well.

Just recently I had my Cobra's Cargo hatch blown off and lost all my cargo. I had to reboot and repair my thruster to get going. But then security turned up and stared attacking the pirate, with my shields back up, i turned around and helped. That was a great experience for me, was great fun even though I lost all my cargo, but what a bit of virtual money compared to the fun I just had.

Max, that is the most ridiculous statement I have heard yet in this debate. Are you telling us that no one should fly a T7 now the the AI is "in the right area" and that everyone should migrate to smaller and faster ships??? By this argument half the fleet is now redundant and unplayable. That's not in anyway "the right area."

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Max, that is the most ridiculous statement I have heard yet in this debate. Are you telling us that no one should fly a T7 now the the AI is "in the right area" and that everyone should migrate to smaller and faster ships??? By this argument half the fleet is now redundant and unplayable. That's not in anyway "the right area."

No, just outfit it better to make it more survivable, don't panic and take some advice. The T7 wasn't a great ship before the AI got better let alone now. But it isn't difficult to get away from an NPC. And if you can't afford it yet, yes go down to a smaller ship until you can outfit it properly. And I didn't realise that the T7 constituted half the fleet. The T7 has bad shields, bad armour, bad top speed, and bad manouverability. It is not a good ship.

And please do not put words in my mouth.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

No, just outfit it better to make it more survivable, don't panic and take some advice. The T7 wasn't a great ship before the AI got better let alone now. But it isn't difficult to get away from an NPC. And if you can't afford it yet, yes go down to a smaller ship until you can outfit it properly. And I didn't realise that the T7 constituted half the fleet. The T7 has bad shields, bad armour, bad top speed, and bad manouverability. It is not a good ship.

And please do not put words in my mouth.

These are not words in your mouth, just a follow on from your logic: Slower and Bigger ships can't be used. Your statement on the T7 said nothing about equipment. And the truth is that people with A-rated Anacondas, Pythons, and other large ships are getting slaughtered out there, not just the worse off ships.

So I say again (this is a question) are you saying that half the fleet should not be accessible to CMDRs because of the AI skill is "in the right place"? Because it sure sounds like it.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

These are not words in your mouth, just a follow on from your logic: Slower and Bigger ships can't be used. Your statement on the T7 said nothing about equipment. And the truth is that people with A-rated Anacondas, Pythons, and other large ships are getting slaughtered out there, not just the worse off ships.

So I say again (this is a question) are you saying that half the fleet should not be accessible to CMDRs because of the AI skill is "in the right place"? Because it sure sounds like it.

No I didn't say that. I have only talked about the T7 because it is a dreadful ship. The Python isn't, the Annaconda isn't, these are all good ships, but now you need to look at how you outfit your ships.

From what I have read on the forum people are dying in their ships becasue they were poorly outfitted, and because the previous AI made it extremely easy to either kill them or get away. Before the change people where flying trading ships without shields it was that easy. Now it isn't. It is now Elite Dangerous, instead of Elite Not Dangerous as it used to be. People will need to adapt, change and learn.

AS I SAID. STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. I never once talked about the python being bad or the annaconda. These two ships are multi purpose ships, can have great armour, be heavily armed, and have great shields. The T7 has none of that, but you can make it more suviviable by putting military grade bulkheads on for instance, better shields, and hi-wake out of their instead of low-wake. Even the T9 can be turned into a tank with great armour, better shields then the T7 and still have a lot of cargo space.

I said to go down to a Type 6 until they can afford a better ship like an Imperial clipper, it has a smillar base price as a Type 7, but is far better in every way.

The T7 is a truely awful ship, probably the worst of all the available ships in my opinion.

And you are the one not being logical at all.

 

[layterduud]

Guys please ... Yesterday i was in my t7 .... I was thinking .... Lets give it another try and see if stuf improved.

Played a while .... No interdiction ... Made a few mil trading ( up from 15.4 to 18 )

Then interdiction ... Escaped ... Yiha .... Load indium .... Another interdiction.

Submit ... Boost .... Shield 4 pips ... Target next system .... Press J

At the point of targeting next system already half my shield where gone ( secconds ) .... Jumping ... MASS LOCKED ... Few secs later BOOM

So grinded 1.5 hours ... Killed in few secs and ended with 15.2 mil ( -200K ) after 1.5 hours of playing.

Is this fun ??????????? NOPE

And whatever the positive people are saying ... This is not fun if you like to trade. Also the positives will not say " well that was fun ! " when that happens to them.

Sure you should get killed in a game. But you should get a chance also !

Yup - same here, except I was flying an ASP Explorer. Escaped several times but still eventually got interdicted by the same NCP. I've been running missions since the update as trading doesn't pay as well as it used to. Lost my mission cargo, therefore had to cancel mission, so got fined for that and had to fork out for new ship. Wound up losing all profit I'd made over last 3 hrs. Sucks...so I'm going back to a safer style; kitted out a mk iV cobra and hanging out near the nav beacon, scooping up bounties to get enough cash to buy better shields and boosters for the ASP. Got a better power supply so far...it is a grind but I can't see a safer way. Quicker ways have been too risky and just as I get close I get sent back to square 1.

Does anyone know if they've fixed the bug (if it is one) where the NCP targets you even if you don't have any cargo? That was bizarre - having a pirate chase me for stuff I didn't have. It only happened twice so I don't know how common the issue is and therefore whether anyone has taken any notice of it.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Yup - same here, except I was flying an ASP Explorer. Escaped several times but still eventually got interdicted by the same NCP. I've been running missions since the update as trading doesn't pay as well as it used to. Lost my mission cargo, therefore had to cancel mission, so got fined for that and had to fork out for new ship. Wound up losing all profit I'd made over last 3 hrs. Sucks...so I'm going back to a safer style; kitted out a mk iV cobra and hanging out near the nav beacon, scooping up bounties to get enough cash to buy better shields and boosters for the ASP. Got a better power supply so far...it is a grind but I can't see a safer way. Quicker ways have been too risky and just as I get close I get sent back to square 1.

Does anyone know if they've fixed the bug (if it is one) where the NCP targets you even if you don't have any cargo? That was bizarre - having a pirate chase me for stuff I didn't have. It only happened twice so I don't know how common the issue is and therefore whether anyone has taken any notice of it.

Some NPC's are just psychos and want to kill you no matter what cargo if any you have. I have encountered a few as well. What ever you do, do not stack loads of missions (not sure if you are), that is a virtual death sentence. Also remember to hi-wake out to escape (jump to another system) as mass lock doesn't effect you for that . Also if you are trading, make sure you trade in hi-security systems.

 

[craigha]

AMEN.
I totally agree with you, 100% and I'm going down the same road right now (not playing; testing the water here in the forum...). Believe me, you're not alone. we're a legion.
and yes, it's really sad.

Yes gentlemen, I'm in exactly the same place. I really hope the Frontier guys monitor closely what's happening in the game and respond accordingly, I was really enjoying the game until Engineers and haven't played since other than to "test the waters" as you put it beautifully to see if it's playable again.

I was going to go on exploration but haven't done that as I might then appear as "continued to play so can't be all bad" if they're just monitoring player numbers. Am keen to see what happens over next few weeks, I really hope they reset the AI to what it was as I thought it was very well balanced already - I wouldn't have attacked a Python in a Sidewinder in the old AI and struggled against two targets even in a large ship. Hey, hum - let's see what happens, will be really disappointed if I can't return to it I really enjoyed the game.

 

[smiths121]

Ship lasted l at least 15 seconds according to the pirates that measured the time to high wake out. If it lasted minutes there would be no threat at all. Actually it lasted longer as your were jumping to super cruise.

2 things I get from this:

1) At the threat level (you did not say what what was shooting you and with what) and indeed the security of the system. Your ship can survive and make a high wake. That is good, it means your current load out can at least be used.
2) You made a mistake and the game punished you. I am not sure the scenario warrants rolling back the AI for everyone, it was your mistake. ED is an unforgiving place, just as Elite, FE2, and FFE were. Mistakes cost.

Next time as soon as you enter the system set your route so that your next hop and jump trick works as quickly as possible. It took me a week to get disciplined about this. I removed my "toggle FSD button" (the j button), so I could be sure what form of escape I am using (if I cannot be mass locked and I am not doing missions then supercruise is an option) by binding the jump to supercruise and jump to hyperspace buttons.

You could try giving up cargo in T7, at the moment the NPCs want more than they can carry (seems to be percentage of cargo based on aggression of the NPC), but its better than losing all the cargo and the ship.

Not having a go, I just cannot see how making a mistake justifies downgrading the NPCs. Hopefully my control binding tip will help in your T7.

Simon

Jup made the supercruise mistake. Point is .... Killed in secs in my 27 mil T7. Have shield boosters also.

To be honest ... I do not even think i would have made it jumping to another system. And jup have chaff also ...

NPC did not use any rockets ... Energy against shields and then burned a hole with a beam laser. It took a few seconds to put me out of my missery ��. Not even time to check his inteligence ... Perhaps he was very dumb in flying ... Does not matter because this guy nuked me ��

 

[oranginam]

Why frontier is deaf to our request?
Why does he not listen to the community?
Why does he not listen to their customers...

I read this forum and others again and again.
I see that a large majority for the return back to the AI or why not add a choice on the level of difficulty? everyone find happiness

 

[Gully Foyle]

Why frontier is deaf to our request?
Why does he not listen to the community?
Why does he not listen to their customers...

I read this forum and others again and again.
I see that a large majority for the return back to the AI or why not add a choice on the level of difficulty? everyone find happiness

They are not deaf. they are giving this minor issue a lot of attention. It takes time to tune something properly.
There is not a game developer that listens better to their community than Frontier Development.
Do not put too much stock in what you read in forums, the negativity can sometimes get out of hand. This is the reason that many of us don't even post or read the forum at all.
Happy CMDRs are too busy actually playing than to post.
Players must make adjustments for changes, just like anything else in life. Strategies that served you well in the past must be abandoned and new ones discovered. Check out the "how to evade Interdiction thread" for example.

Good Luck and Fly Safe!
o7