NPC piracy is gone away, what to do now?

[CMDR Cknarf]

I think I tried taking out thrusters on NPCs with seekers some time ago.

Unlike FA-ON players, NPCs will just keep on drifting.

Unless something has changed, it’s a real pain.

 

[Old Duck]

Are you back to play ED, Duck? Or still waiting FDev to fix your elephant butt while having fun trolling on ED forum?

Why does it have to be either / or?

Anyway, you started with the trolling - "Good job, FDev for ruining NPC pirating." As someone who pirates NPCs (my alt), I'm very happy with the new changes. It appears others are as well. I definitely am not seeing the outcry that Drag Munitions caused. So feel free to tell the world you don't like it, and feel free to report any bugs you discover (mass lock not working, collector limpets colliding with your hull, etc.) but don't expect to go unchallenged when you make sweeping claims on behalf of the entire player base.

Oh, that's right, you don't like a challenge (Now that's a troll post!)

ps - I do appreciate that you remember EBL!

 

[Melanthes]

Unlike FA-ON players, NPCs will just keep on drifting.

Unless something has changed, it’s a real pain.

It's slightly annoying, but also realistic. How could a ship without thrusters stop? Although there is an "easy" solution, if the NPC is low enough in rank not to reboot: take a slf with you and bump into him once or twice. The slf is fast enough to do this.

 

[Old Duck]

Last patch changed AI.
Now NPC can do two things - drop mines, and that cool. And jump away when it takes damage - not so cool.
I can kill running away NPC, but what about piracy? How can I stop NPC for milking?

Out of curiosity, do NPCs still drop their cargo as their hull gets low? They used to do this. If not, then you might want to file it as a bug, because I believe they are supposed to. If NPCs are going to simulate real pilots and / or CMDRs, it makes sense that they'd drop their cargo just like a CMDR can do when an NPC pirate attacks us. The challenge of course is bringing down their hull enough to trigger their "This ain't worth it!" response without actually destroying them.

Like I said, NPCs used to do this. I also would like to see lesser experienced NPCs not know how to reboot their thrusters. I've meet more than one CMDR who I had to help reboot their ship after I shot their engines out from under them......

(The devil is for shooting them in the first place, the angel is for helping them afterwards.)

 

[lecorsobreton]

Last patch changed AI.
Now NPC can do two things - drop mines, and that cool. And jump away when it takes damage - not so cool.
I can kill running away NPC, but what about piracy? How can I stop NPC for milking?

I'm not an expert pirate, but I've done my fair share of "liberate hostage" missions (those can be fun if you're not facing a type 7 or type 9). Launch a hatch breaker limpet (grade A, more stuff drops but I'm sure you know this) when you're under 600m to avoid the occasional point defense and when the cargo drops, target the canister with a limpet (B ones are fastest) on what you can. If the NPC jumps away, no big deal, you'll have the next one, or you can scan his wake and follow him. I guess people are used to pilfering every single ton.

What irks me though is that NPC can still charge their FSD right after a lost interdiction. I swear I should record every time I play. It happened to me earlier this evening.

 

[Screemonster]

What happened to NPCs saying "alright, the cargo's yours, this job ain't worth my life" and dumping cargo if you shot them up a bit?

 

[Old Duck]

It's slightly annoying, but also realistic. How could a ship without thrusters stop? Although there is an "easy" solution, if the NPC is low enough in rank not to reboot: take a slf with you and bump into him once or twice. The slf is fast enough to do this.

The only reason this is an issue is because collector limpets tend to destroy cargo when delivering them to a moving ship, yes? I don't think this was always the case. It's reasonable to ask Frontier to fix this IMO. Then we can just follow along with a few collector limpets, scooping up the "bread crumbs" as we go.

What I'll personally be doing is getting in front of the drifting NPC (assuming they don't reboot), sending out the long-range collectors and let them earn their keep as the crippled ship drifts by.

What happened to NPCs saying "alright, the cargo's yours, this job ain't worth my life" and dumping cargo if you shot them up a bit?

That's what I said (see above post)! They used to behave this way. If not now, report it as a bug and Frontier will fix it. Though I suspect Deadly and Elite traders might rather die than drop their cargo willingly...

 

[Jukelo]

Like I said, NPCs used to do this. I also would like to see lesser experienced NPCs not know how to reboot their thrusters. I've meet more than one CMDR who I had to help reboot their ship after I shot their engines out from under them......

That is the case, the ability to repair&reboot is tied to the NPC's rank. For that reason low rank shielded ships are the best target: they let you immobilize them for good, and in case they're going a bit too fast you can bump them to a stop aggressively (I personally don't engineer my ships, so I need to be fast before the police arrives even in low sec systems).

The only reason this is an issue is because collector limpets tend to destroy cargo when delivering them to a moving ship, yes? I don't think this was always the case. It's reasonable to ask Frontier to fix this IMO. Then we can just follow along with a few collector limpets, scooping up the "bread crumbs" as we go.

Always been like that, reported multiple times, it was never acknowledged as an issue. And keep in mind the change to hatch breakers allowing them to go through shields: the purpose being, clearly, to let you steal (some) cargo without having to really engage in combat if the target ran, and at some point to force you to let them go once you've gone too far and the first cannisters risk depopping. At which point you can stop and collect what you've managed to drop. So I'm fairly sure it is by design.

 

[Barlog M.]

If the NPC jumps away, no big deal, you'll have the next one, or you can scan his wake and follow him.

For LTD piracy you can wait for victim about a hour. Before this patch it was lottery with nice prize. Now it just boring thing. And in a not anarchy system piracy is a bit harder because limpets die fast under heavy fire.

 

[Old Duck]

Always been like that, reported multiple times, it was never acknowledged as an issue so it must be by design.

At all speeds? I collect materials while passing through at slow speed, no problem. I thought for sure I've done this with cargo too, but I also remember losing cargo because of going to fast.

Now I wonder, if a ship is drifting fast "upward", so that the limpet has a straight shot into the bay (coming from underneath), if this would still happen, since there wouldn't be any "sheering" of a sideways-moving hole... It would mean flying like Boba Fett's ship, but it could be a way to keep pace after a drifting ship while also collecting cargo... I'm going to have to try this!

 

[Old Duck]

Now it just boring thing.

I'm genuinely curious - how did you pirate before the patch? Did you just sit there and shield tank while the trader attacked you like he was going to "boil you up" in his Type-6, meanwhile you're waiting for your various limpets do the work?

What made it "interesting" before and "boring" now? Is it the "I've now got a hold full of LTDs" that made you happy, or rather the process of getting them?

For me, it's the latter, and that's why I'm excited about the changes. I confess, I'm rich enough that I don't NEED to pirate, but pirating was never a get-rich-quick profession, and these days it's way easier to make money using the FSS or a mining laser. I pirate for the thrill of pirating (and also BGS).

 

[Jukelo]

At all speeds? I collect materials while passing through at slow speed, no problem. I thought for sure I've done this with cargo too, but I also remember losing cargo because of going to fast.

You can safely-ish collect cargo canisters at ~20m/s. Depending on the ship and the direction you're moving, this can vary slightly but not by much. In the Python I could relatively reliably collect at 25m/s if going in a straight line or straight up, but a few canisters would blow up every now and then.
Materials are different, I've never had them be destroyed during collection even moving at higher speeds.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

I haven’t really pirated for a couple months, but I’d always just engage them, and tank it while spamming hatchbreakers.

Always thought it was funny that an NPC T7 would turn and attack an Anaconda like that.

The thruster method was iffy at best, just cause the limpets would always die because of the limited range as I tried to stay within sensor range of my target.

Slowing them down as they are drifting was sometimes difficult, and unreliable.

Powerplant method (when they actually stopped when losing a plant) was fine, but if you hit them too much they’d blow up. Repair limpets helped keep the more fragile ones alive longer.

 

[Old Duck]

You can safely-ish collect cargo canisters at ~20m/s. Depending on the ship and the direction you're moving, this can vary slightly but not by much. In the Python I could relatively reliably collect at 25m/s if going in a straight line or straight up, but a few canisters would blow up every now and then.
Materials are different, I've never had them be destroyed during collection even moving at higher speeds.

You seem very experienced, more than I, so what do you think of the changes discussed in this thread? I was never a fan of a Type-6 miner or T7 trader or a Beluga passenger liner fighting back against my BattleConda like they themselves were in combat ships. Not only was it very unrealistic, but it basically made pirating too easy. I'm very excited to see AI acting similar to what most CMDRs do when interdicted by NPC pirates. Seems only fair, and it makes pirating challenging

That said, if I'm attacking a Type-9 equipped with SLF in my pirate Adder, then I would expect the T9 to turn and fight, at least until their shields went down. I'm not sure if the AI is context aware like that, and I'm okay if it's not. Seeing that both player and NPC wings tend to drop in one first, then the rest of the wing shortly after, there is a logic in running from even an inferior foe (I've got caught with my pants down more than once due to the "buddies" showing up after engaging that first target).

Anyway, do you like the new changes?

 

[Dukechiken]

What made it "interesting" before and "boring" now?

Before the April patch, you can shot out point defenses, or individual weapon, or thruster from NPC, as long as you are careful not bring their hull below 40-50%, NPC won't jump away.

Now, as soon as NPCs lose one ring of shield, they high-wake. Often you end up killing NPCs with grom missile while trying to stop them from jump away multiple times.

 

[Old Duck]

Before the April patch, you can shot out point defenses, or individual weapon, or thruster from NPC, as long as you are careful not bring their hull below 40-50%, NPC won't jump away.

How is that interesting or challenging or realistic? That's not pirating, that's poaching - shooting a deer on the side of the road from the comfort of your vehicle.

Now I think you should return the favor and not jump away when the NPC pirates come after you. Either that or try some PvP piracy

(FWIW, read my post above about traders standing their ground when they actually do have a chance of winning. I'm totally cool with that.)

 

[Mohr]

Dear FDev,

You took away one of my favorite pastimes, and I think you finally broke the game one too many times for me. You turned NPC piracy from something fun and relaxing into a tedious frustrating experience that is no longer worth the effort. Some may argue the change in AI behavior was needed, but I assure you these are part time pirates (if that) with only one foot in the door. Many in my squadron are playing other games tonight instead of yours... and I'm sitting in the dock wondering 'why bother?'. After 5006 hours in Elite it may be time for me to move on. I can no longer defend a massive multiplayer game that rewards solitary activities like void opal mining and exploration, over group activities such as wing missions and organized npc piracy.

o7 Commanders!

 

[Old Duck]

Some may argue the change in AI behavior was needed, but I assure you these are part time pirates (if that) with only one foot in the door.

You are allowed to state your opinion, but you are not allowed to declare that you are the "true pirates" and people who disagree with you are "part time pirates". (Somebody from the ADS debate is laughing at me right now, I can hear it!)

As I keep saying, if you are "true pirates", up the ante and start pirating other CMDRs. This thinking that NPCs are supposed to be easy "farmable" resources like asteroids is just wrong. The fact NPCs are now behaving like other players, including yourself (do you really stick around when interdicted by a superior force?) is a GOOD thing.

 

[Mohr]

You are allowed to state your opinion, but you are not allowed to declare that you are the "true pirates" and people who disagree with you are "part time pirates". (Somebody from the ADS debate is laughing at me right now, I can hear it!)

As I keep saying, if you are "true pirates", up the ante and start pirating other CMDRs. This thinking that NPCs are supposed to be easy "farmable" resources like asteroids is just wrong. The fact NPCs are now behaving like other players, including yourself (do you really stick around when interdicted by a superior force?) is a GOOD thing.

You have posted 18 times in this thread with nothing important to say. Can we get a moderator in here for this troll?

 

[Old Duck]

You have posted 18 times in this thread with nothing important to say. Can we get a moderator in here for this troll?

Now you are just being dismissive, because I've said a lot of important things. I also admit to using wit and sarcasm to nail my point home, but well within the bounds of forum policy.

Here is why I'm not a troll - I care about this topic. For reasons I won't go into, I care quite deeply. I think you are wrong, and I've posted very good arguments and examples to back my claims. That doesn't make me right, but I am siding with a decision Frontier made, a decision that was requested by players and supported by players (not all players, obviously), so you can't just dismiss me as a troll in order to "win" your argument.

But I will concede your indirectly-made point that I have said what I need to say, and that it's time for me to step back and let others "fight the good fight". Just cut the crap about being "true pirates" (shut up, Burke) while dismissing those who disagree with you as "part time pirates", unless you make it clear you're also using wit and sarcasm and not attempting to declare a universal truth.

The thread is all yours!