OA and Dj truthsayer discuss update news

See, that's where we disagree. I have a hard time to see actual improvement and call most of that stuff filler, half-baked and minimum effort.

Ships: Only good ships released were Chieftain and Kraits. Then, I always expected them to release ships in periodic updates.

Mutlicrew: Never expected it because I have no desire to use it, but i would call it buggy and half-baked, and what I actually expected to have by now, NPC crew, is missing.

Engineers: Never expected FDEV to waste that much time on it. Why in theory it's a good idea to keep the players engaged and give them something to do, they went way overboard with the engineers, breaking the balancing, when an "Engineers light" would have sufficed completely and would probably have taken way less time to implement.

Thargoids and Guardian story line: Started up really hype, but then somewhere on the way it crashed and burned, and feels abandoned now.

Exploration and Mining: Nice and small improvements to some underdeveloped areas of the game, I give them that. Very lightweight, but effective.

and so on.

I respect that you don't like the updates, new features, tweaks and QOL improvements, that's a perfectly valid position. That doesn't mean it didn't require a lot of effort to create.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
I respect that you don't like the updates, new features, tweaks and QOL improvements, that's a perfectly valid position. That doesn't mean it didn't require a lot of effort to create.

Precisely. This is something I see quite often, some players seem to equate “FDEV didn’t deliver what I would have personally liked” with “FDEV didnt do any work”.
 
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I respect that you don't like the updates, new features, tweaks and QOL improvements, that's a perfectly valid position. That doesn't mean it didn't require a lot of effort to create.

Precisely. This is something I see quite often, some players seem to equate “FDEV didn’t deliver what I would have personally liked” with “FDEV didnt do any work”.

That's not what I said, though. I even listed a some things that I actually liked. My point was that IMO they didn't put enough work in it.
Half-baked, buggy, minimum effort, missing features.
 
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That's not what I said, though. I even listed a some things that I actually liked. My point was that IMO they didn't put enough work in it.
Half-baked, buggy, minimum effort, missing features.

I think this is one of those areas where they had two choices: Either focus the bulk of their development on one area (Thargoids, say) or spread it out across multiple areas. There isn't a 'right' answer.

I agree with your post with regards multi-crew and the Thargoids/Guardian stuff. Engineers - well, I could easily see them being replaced by something akin to tech-brokers (lots of locations throughout the bubble) and i wouldn't miss them. I disagree about the exploration and mining improvements though - they were pretty significant.
 
That's not what I said, though. I even listed a some things that I actually liked. My point was that IMO they didn't put enough work in it.
Half-baked, buggy, minimum effort, missing features.

Sorry, so I'll respect that you find many of the updates half-baked, buggy, minimum effort, missing features. That still doesn't tell me anything about the actual effort that was required to create it. I just tried to create a list combining all patch logs and quickly stopped doing it. There have been several thousand changes and fixes in the game since 2014. Maybe 50.000+, I don't know. But definetely way too many to make a single post ;).
 
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There have been, allegedly, 7563 changes to the live game, implemented over 91 updates - not including the contents of Beyond.

By way of listing them all in a single post; https://elite-dangerous.fandom.com/wiki/Version_history

:p

Thanks, the list is incomplete though.

PS
For example:
"Links to the complete changelogs (only ~5% is included here) "

Also I believe the 7563 changes don't include bug fixes, could be wrong though... ;)
 
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Goose4291

Banned
That's not what I said, though. I even listed a some things that I actually liked. My point was that IMO they didn't put enough work in it.
Half-baked, buggy, minimum effort, missing features.

The important thing is remember how they handle feedback as well.

I know the forum consensus likes to sweep it under the carpet but Sandro at one point, regarding bugs, flaws and lack of scope with multicrew, responded that they 'only develop further mechanics people actively use.'

The idea you won't fix a broken mechanic because people aren't using your broken mechanic because it's a broken mechanic is to put it bluntly... ludicrous to me.
 
The important thing is remember how they handle feedback as well.

I know the forum consensus likes to sweep it under the carpet but Sandro at one point, regarding bugs, flaws and lack of scope with multicrew, responded that they 'only develop further mechanics people actively use.'

The idea you won't fix a broken mechanic because people aren't using your broken mechanic because it's a broken mechanic is to put it bluntly... ludicrous to me.

Yes. That was a real low for FD customer service. Lower even than the updates themselves.
 
Nothing against either of these guys, they’re just not where I go for my information.

It’s pretty clear from Frontier’s post on the matter that whatever the next major release is going to be that it’s going to be bigger than Beyond, which means it will take even longer than Beyond. It also very much sounds like they’re aiming for more “complete” releases, rather than the “here’s part of what we’ve got” style of releases we’ve gotten previously. This could well be what they’ve been meaning by “moving away from the season model”, and that’s not a bad thing at all.

Sure, it means longer stretches between releases, but they’ve also said there will be some minor releases and updates/fixes/changes along the way, so it’s not like we’re facing a year long dry spell either.

All they really need now it just to slip us a peek now and then as to what they’re up to and we’ll be happy. Planning to give us atmospheric landings? Just say so. Got a pretty visual overhaul? Share a screenshot. Add a “pre-release version” disclaimer and no one can hold anyone to it, and done - everyone’s happy.
 
The important thing is remember how they handle feedback as well.

I know the forum consensus likes to sweep it under the carpet but Sandro at one point, regarding bugs, flaws and lack of scope with multicrew, responded that they 'only develop further mechanics people actively use.'

The idea you won't fix a broken mechanic because people aren't using your broken mechanic because it's a broken mechanic is to put it bluntly... ludicrous to me.

It makes sense to concentrate on popular things in an MMO to me so logically not wasting time on an unpopular thing is also sensible.
 
All they really need now it just to slip us a peek now and then as to what they’re up to and we’ll be happy. Planning to give us atmospheric landings? Just say so. Got a pretty visual overhaul? Share a screenshot. Add a “pre-release version” disclaimer and no one can hold anyone to it, and done - everyone’s happy.

I agree, but then if in the end they couldn't deliver on things peeked at, the disappointment from fans of the game would again be considerable.
 
It makes sense to concentrate on popular things in an MMO to me so logically not wasting time on an unpopular thing is also sensible.

Trouble is, in this case Goose is absolutely right - people wouldn't/couldn't use multicrew properly as it was broken quite badly, so (by their own statement) that meant that Frontier in theory would de-prioritise it as a development target as it wasn't being used. They put themselves into a bit of a chicken/egg situation.

I don't use multicrew personally, but I remember thinking when I saw the Sandro announcement "but that means you won't fix it because people aren't using it, but people are only not using it because it needs fixing...?!"

One of those occasions where FDev could have done with a lawyer stepping into frame and saying "Mr Sandro? Stop talking, please."
 

Jenner

I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
Nothing against either of these guys, they’re just not where I go for my information.

It’s pretty clear from Frontier’s post on the matter that whatever the next major release is going to be that it’s going to be bigger than Beyond, which means it will take even longer than Beyond. It also very much sounds like they’re aiming for more “complete” releases, rather than the “here’s part of what we’ve got” style of releases we’ve gotten previously. This could well be what they’ve been meaning by “moving away from the season model”, and that’s not a bad thing at all.

Sure, it means longer stretches between releases, but they’ve also said there will be some minor releases and updates/fixes/changes along the way, so it’s not like we’re facing a year long dry spell either.

All they really need now it just to slip us a peek now and then as to what they’re up to and we’ll be happy. Planning to give us atmospheric landings? Just say so. Got a pretty visual overhaul? Share a screenshot. Add a “pre-release version” disclaimer and no one can hold anyone to it, and done - everyone’s happy.

Yup.

I guess they figure that they will get less flak if they're just silent than if they over-promise and have to walk back features. I think either way they're going to anger some people so they might as well err on the side of transparency. I'm not in charge, though. :D
 
Yup.

I guess they figure that they will get less flak if they're just silent than if they over-promise and have to walk back features. I think either way they're going to anger some people so they might as well err on the side of transparency. I'm not in charge, though. :D

*nod* damned if they do, damned if they don't.

I'm speculating, but I seriously doubt we'll get any hard info this year, and anything they do​ tease had better be beyond the point where it's in any doubt of shipping.
 
Trouble is, in this case Goose is absolutely right - people wouldn't/couldn't use multicrew properly as it was broken quite badly, so (by their own statement) that meant that Frontier in theory would de-prioritise it as a development target as it wasn't being used. They put themselves into a bit of a chicken/egg situation.

I don't use multicrew personally, but I remember thinking when I saw the Sandro announcement "but that means you won't fix it because people aren't using it, but people are only not using it because it needs fixing...?!"

One of those occasions where FDev could have done with a lawyer stepping into frame and saying "Mr Sandro? Stop talking, please."

According to the forum everything's broken, so I always take it with a huge pinch of salt unless I directly experience it myself.
 
Yup.

I guess they figure that they will get less flak if they're just silent than if they over-promise and have to walk back features. I think either way they're going to anger some people so they might as well err on the side of transparency. I'm not in charge, though. :D

You mean like the Fleet Carriers?

Other than Commader Colonize, I don’t think too much sleep has been lost over this.

If you promise me a Pączki, but deliver me a doughnut, I’m not going to lose much sleep there.
 
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