Odyssey Alpha - let us try VR 3D stereoscopic headlook on foot and alpha test its nausea trigger / gameplay

VR Jay Le Chardon

VR Jay Le Chardon
Pretty much what the title says, no VR in Odyssey was never acceptable, so we kicked up a stink, and Frontier met us half way with "VR in cockpit as it is just now but switching to a virtual flatscreen rendered in the headset when on foot". This decision strikes me as the company being wary about adding VR with 3d headlook on foot as it can be a nausea trigger, and I can understand them not wanting to get a rep for having a big paid DLC as being a barf-fest.

However, I cannot help but think that as the VR 3D headlook code already exists in game, and could theoretically be copied from cockpit into on foot sections of the games code, that the upcoming alpha would be a good time to test just how bad it would be? Worst case scenario is some people find it nauseating and they can switch to the virtual flatscreen as a comfort option, best case is it's not as bad a nausea trigger as they fear it might be and is warmly received by the community. It's essentially a "you'll never know unless you go" situation, and the findings will be the embodiment of "your mileage may vary" but I'd dearly love it if Frontier gave us a chance to "put on our big boy pants" and test the mettle of our VR legs, and give us the ability to select as an option in graphics settings "VR on foot: 3D headlook / Virtual flat screen".

I'd like to reiterate that this change isn't a 6-month undertaking, not even 6 days as far as I can tell given the mythos of greg, one man one day and we had VR, so it would not necessarily delay the game for the wider playerbase.

Am I the only one who would welcome this?
 

LKx

L
[VR] Jay Le Chardon said:
..., no VR in Odyssey was never acceptable, so we kicked up a stink, and Frontier met us half way with "VR in cockpit as it is just now but switching to a virtual flatscreen rendered in the headset when on foot". ...
Click to expand...
No VR at all was never on the table, it was pretty obvious that current VR capabilities were to be kept, so obvious that they didn't even felt the need to specify it, but then they had to.

Anyway, yes, the no VR on foot is also obviously due to problems to make the experience right, but since they are struggling to match the release, i really doubt they already have something even testable of foot VR (and no, copy and paste is never an option...). I'm pretty sure they suspended the feature pretty soon.
 
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Ydiss

Ydiss
It's definitely not just due to the issues with motion sickness and how to tackle it. There's so much that has to be done differently, so many different potential controller configurations. Just look at all the existing fp vr titles out there. Both well executed and otherwise. The best are significantly different to the raster style versions.

I'm certain navigation in relation to motion sickness is a primary issue (I just don't think it'll ever be viable to translate a sitting or standing experience into FP VR for waking or running without significant adjustments) but you can't just slap on a VR display and expect a first person shooter to play well. It requires a ton of support.

If it were possible for them to give this to us in Alpha, then they'd do it.
 

Scoob101

S
[VR] Jay Le Chardon said:
However, I cannot help but think that as the VR 3D headlook code already exists in game, and could theoretically be copied from cockpit into on foot sections of the games code, that the upcoming alpha would be a good time to test just how bad it would be?
Click to expand...
So to paraphrase, you don't trust Frontier to playtest their own game to understand what components do or don't work, so you want to take over control of one particular aspect which you care about deeply - in order to steer it to a conclusion that you favour.

Yea. Good luck with that!
 

Scoob101

S
thistle said:
And just flicking a switch, a half-hour job etc? Nah. It will be actual work to do
Click to expand...

Work they have already done. How do we know this? Because they told us the outcome of the testing they performed - the conclusion of which was to leave out VR (for now).
 

Arioch

Arioch
[VR] Jay Le Chardon said:
Pretty much what the title says, no VR in Odyssey was never acceptable, so we kicked up a stink, and Frontier met us half way with "VR in cockpit as it is just now but switching to a virtual flatscreen rendered in the headset when on foot". This decision strikes me as the company being wary about adding VR with 3d headlook on foot as it can be a nausea trigger, and I can understand them not wanting to get a rep for having a big paid DLC as being a barf-fest.

However, I cannot help but think that as the VR 3D headlook code already exists in game, and could theoretically be copied from cockpit into on foot sections of the games code, that the upcoming alpha would be a good time to test just how bad it would be? Worst case scenario is some people find it nauseating and they can switch to the virtual flatscreen as a comfort option, best case is it's not as bad a nausea trigger as they fear it might be and is warmly received by the community. It's essentially a "you'll never know unless you go" situation, and the findings will be the embodiment of "your mileage may vary" but I'd dearly love it if Frontier gave us a chance to "put on our big boy pants" and test the mettle of our VR legs, and give us the ability to select as an option in graphics settings "VR on foot: 3D headlook / Virtual flat screen".

I'd like to reiterate that this change isn't a 6-month undertaking, not even 6 days as far as I can tell given the mythos of greg, one man one day and we had VR, so it would not necessarily delay the game for the wider playerbase.

Am I the only one who would welcome this?
Click to expand...
I’d give it a go in a shot, but I’d probably not give much feedback regarding nausea seeing as I’ve got pretty solid VR legs.

If you can play SubnauticaVR or the Alien: Isolation VR mod, then I reckon you’d be set for the type of minimal implementation you’re after.

I’d be super happy if it could be enabled - even if by an ini file change, so there’s no chance of doing it by accident and then complaining when there’s bile streams coming down the nostrils 😁
 

KillZoneGB

K
Dirt rally 2 Vr. going over 100 mph doing a ton of barrel rolls, also in a Motion Simulator. (fun)
Fallout4 Vr playing for hours.

These are a couple of examples, and I never once had any nausea issues.

I guess some developers use an excuse as a scapegoat to not develop.

VR to me:

1. In the game​
2. 3D depth​
​
  • VR Flatscreen:
  • Might as well strap a monitor to my face and loose the two features I mentioned above.
 

aRJay

aRJay
KillZoneGB said:
Dirt rally 2 Vr. going over 100 mph doing a ton of barrel rolls, also in a Motion Simulator. (fun)
Fallout4 Vr playing for hours.

These are a couple of examples, and I never once had any nausea issues.

I guess some developers use an excuse as a scapegoat to not develop.

VR to me:

1. In the game​
2. 3D depth​
​
  • VR Flatscreen:
  • Might as well strap a monitor to my face and loose the two features I mentioned above.
Click to expand...
The trouble with that is I don't recall FDev saying anything about nausea issues being the reason.
 

Arioch

Arioch
[VR] Orodruin said:
It was one of the main reasons stated. I have quite vivid memories of Stephen saying something to the effect of ”we don’t want people vomiting in their headsets”
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He did indeed.

I think existing VR users will know whether they can handle it from playing other VR fps games or by some of the more extreme movements in ED - if you can handle the SRV turret or a SLF spin-out then there shouldn’t be any nausea issues with legging it about. It sounds to me like Jay is suggesting mapping mouse-look to the headset for the on-feet parts, sort of like a glorified head-tracker and hopefully not a massive amount of work to implement. Perhaps they’re worried about new players though, lots of new accounts combined with headset ownership on the rise 🤷‍♂️

Playing SkyrimVR this morning, I was looking up past the mountains, through the clouds at one of the moons and thinking how cool it’d be to do that in Elite - but then jumping into a ship, taking off and flying to the moon, landing and looking back at the first planet 😁 One day, hopefully 🤞
 

VR - wickfut

VR - wickfut
I think companies believe VR has to use motion controllers. VR and motion controllers are two separate entities and should be treated as such.
The two Oculus dev kits didn't have motion controllers and neither did the first release of the Rift, as that came with an xbox controller. They're still VR.

I don't play NMS in VR due to them not allowing xbox controller play. I do play Skyrim VR a lot because they do allow it, it's the same as playing the 2d game. I would like VR in Odyssey with a controller. I don't need to have to wave my arms about to simulate pressing buttons or aiming.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
Having taken delivery of a Quest 2, the experience I have had of the motion controllers suggests, to me at least, that a player using them with a headlook device would be at a significant advantage compared to a player using more conventional controls while on foot.
 

Arioch

Arioch
Robert Maynard said:
Having taken delivery of a Quest 2, the experience I have had of the motion controllers suggests, to me at least, that a player using them with a headlook device would be at a significant advantage compared to a player using more conventional controls while on foot.
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Personally, I wouldn’t like to go up against a m&kb player while using motion controllers, and I consider myself a decent shot in real life.

The upcoming slightly enhanced version of System Shock 2 should be interesting with respect to this - apparently VR & flatscreen players will be able to play multiplayer against each other.
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
[VR] Jay Le Chardon said:
Am I the only one who would welcome this?
Click to expand...

Oh hell yeah, I'd totally welcome this :)

I think what you're suggesting (switching on the native VR view for the otherwise 2D-designed EDO gameplay) would indeed be relatively 'easy' for FDev. And also essentially unmarketable, as you say ;). But as a relatively obscure option, for us EDVR hardcore, it would be super welcome. Just to be able to take in the ship scale from on foot, pick up missions from NPCs, go salvaging in a darkened wreck by helmet light, or whatever. Even in that very rough form.

It's worth noting that it would almost certainly be a horrible experience for many players though ;). Even for those with their 'VR legs' regarding nausea. There's likely be UI plastered super close to your face potentially, heavier use of speedy yaw turns than even in standard mods etc, with view tied to the gun hand / reticule. Performance probably in the bin. It'd be rough...

But I'd still take that over no VR for now ;)
 
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