Odyssey - Plant life confirmed

[Rat Catcher]

Pardon the disrespectful picture... HG managed 'reasonable' flora with PG, and some hand-crafted for specifics:

Hand crafted being grown and 5 PG types here...

Frontier could surely only improve over these?

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Hand crafted or procgen (the latter please), it's still going to be a let down for me if the gameplay consists of nothing more than scan => sample => sell.

The reported new Elite rank gives me hope, but then I remember the still-birth that is Search & Rescue and I worry that it'll be nothing more complex than earning credits for selling seeds.

Edit:
The profanity filter is REALLY weird on this forum

 

[Lightspeed]

Hand crafted or procgen (the latter please), it's still going to be a let down for me if the gameplay consists of nothing more than scan => sample => sell.

The reported new Elite rank gives me hope, but then I remember the still-birth that is Search & Rescue and I worry that it'll be nothing more complex than earning credits for selling seeds.

Edit:
The profanity filter is REALLY weird on this forum

They mentioned extracting their DNA ... has shades of Jurassic Park !

What if we could breed them, propagate them, farm them .... develop an energy drink from them that allows us to run faster, survive longer ...... all depth that could be introduced, but this is ED .....

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

They mentioned extracting their DNA ... has shades of Jurassic Park !

What if we could breed them, propagate them, farm them .... develop an energy drink from them that allows us to run faster, survive longer ...... all depth that could be introduced, but this is ED .....

If these alien lifeforms have DNA then I'd be wondering exactly how terrestrial DNA got distributed around the galaxy.

More likely it just means a commodity to sell - because what explorers really want is to fill up their ships with junk that earns them less than scanning an ELW.

 

[Sysmon]

Imagine all the inputs there could be to a procedural plant engine? ie: To dictate if the roll of the dice means there's plant life on a planet (which should be rare IMHO), and then to dictate its appearance and location:-

1. Stellar Forge: Star distance.
2. Stellar Forge: Star size.
3. Stellar Forge: Star type.
4. Stellar Forge: System age.
5. Stellar Forge: Planet min temp.
6. Stellar Forge: Planet max temp.
7. Stellar Forge: Planet gravity.
8. Stellar Forge: Planet makeup.
9. Stellar Forge: Various atmosphere makeup details (eg: type, pressure).
10. Stellar Forge: A number of purely randomly (procedurally) generated values per planet to randomise the outcome even more.
11. Planet Surface: Altitude - So may only be found near certain altitudes.
12. Planet Surface: Features etc nearby (eg: vents/fumaroles, craters, flat surface/ice, rocky surface/ice) - So may only be found near certain locations.
13. Plant Type: A number of purely random (procedurally) generated values per plant type to randomise the outcome even more.

Imagine some planets rolling the dice and because of their values coming up with not just one, but two or more plant types, which all follow the same procedural branch (because of 1-10), but then appear different, and at different places, due to (11-13).

There's a couple of more parameters to add from Stellar Forge: Orbital eccentricity and rotational period. I don't recall from memory if we have rotational axis obliquity as well. But this way we have light cycles and seasonality represented. These can largely replace 10, or be inserted before it. They may add some commonality depending on climate variability.

EDIT: Ah yes we do have axial tilt. OK, seasons are sorted then.

S

 

[Sysmon]

If these alien lifeforms have DNA then I'd be wondering exactly how terrestrial DNA got distributed around the galaxy.

More likely it just means a commodity to sell - because what explorers really want is to fill up their ships with junk that earns them less than scanning an ELW.

A large part of the issue we are seeing here is from us being able to do all these things as single entities, yet many of the activities are likely large concerted efforts (such as the Universal Cartographics use of exploration data). The actual and proportional effort of the player should be taken into account for the payout for new added gameplay features to seem fair: We should really be paid very little for first-pass exploration data (honk results), slightly more for resolving orbital bodies, more again for detailed surface scans, and most for anything acquired from surface visits. That way, payment would reflect our contribution to the total effort of obtaining the results from the data. At the moment, we are paid along those lines, except anything we can gain from surface visits pays very little compared to DSS activities.

Our payment so far is based on game play considerations, boiling down to the good old cr/hour benchmark. and a little bit on what FD thinks we should find fun. While cr/hr is a benchmark, it makes it hard to add new activities that require effort without people crying these are just more busy work. And just go read the general whinge about Odyssey in the first Dev Diary thread to see what people think is not good game play ("screenshot generator", "nothing to do on planet surfaces", "where are the animals", ...).

So any added sampling game play should pay out for the player, in the form of credits perhaps, but perhaps also in crafting components, brownie points, and whatever else can be thought up to make the effort feel rewarding.

S

 

[Luniticisi]

I don't care about plants, it's pointless fluff to be, if the big thing is "Ohh, I can scan a plant!" then that is a massive fail, I wont be doing that and I get this thing for free.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I don't care about plants, it's pointless fluff to be, if the big thing is "Ohh, I can scan a plant!" then that is a massive fail, I wont be doing that and I get this thing for free.

Replace the word 'plant' with 'gun' and you see how some of us feel about the FPS.

The MAIN scope of Odyssey is the FPS side - they just haven't done a Dev Diary on it yet, so if you're into that side of things then you probably shouldn't be making judgment about whether it's a 'fail' or not. If, however, you don't care about the FPS then yep, you're screwed. Join the club

 

[Luniticisi]

Replace the word 'plant' with 'gun' and you see how some of us feel about the FPS.

The MAIN scope of Odyssey is the FPS side - they just haven't done a Dev Diary on it yet, so if you're into that side of things then you probably shouldn't be making judgment about whether it's a 'fail' or not. If, however, you don't care about the FPS then yep, you're screwed. Join the club

I don't care about FPS in Elite, although I wouldn't mind the option of entering a war or a civil unrest situation on the ground and joning in. but scanning plants is out of the question, and not a great gameplay addition IMO

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I don't care about FPS in Elite, although I wouldn't mind the option of entering a war or a civil unrest situation on the ground and joning in. but scanning plants is out of the question, and not a great gameplay addition IMO

I agree, it's not a great gameplay addition - unless FDev make scanning plants actually have some impact beyond a few credits and a sense of satisfaction. This is why I'm still leaning towards not buying Odyssey.

 

[Sysmon]

It is probably First Person Sampling or First Person Surveying. I look forward to that much more than First Person Shooting (unless it is a handheld XRF, then I'm excited again). With some luck, we will have to get out of the truck to set up our Automated Mining Extractors, or to hack into those owned by others.

S

 

[Luniticisi]

I agree, it's not a great gameplay addition - unless FDev make scanning plants actually have some impact beyond a few credits and a sense of satisfaction. This is why I'm still leaning towards not buying Odyssey.

I'm Lucky as I don't have to pay for it, but, I have had no interest in looking for plants in Horizons, I would certainly not look for them in odyssey, If that's the big meal ticket, I'm not interested.

 

[Hacker#451563]

I like the direction this is heading in, there were loads of complaints about "Oh look weapons, it's all about the pewpew again" and now we can see it's not.

The only thing I'm worried about though is the temperature of my apartment as my CPU and GFX card begin to reach hitherto unheard-of levels of pain. Might be time to think about that upgrade...

 

[Sysmon]

I like the direction this is heading in, there were loads of complaints about "Oh look weapons, it's all about the pewpew again" and now we can see it's not.

Yes we should not underestimate the practicality of the basic gun design for carrying things around to point with at other things. The portable XRFs we use in the field basically look like bulky hand-guns, and you can even get carry belts for them, so they are out of the way but handy when you are not near any rocks to shoot cancer rays at.

We carried rifles up in the Arctic, to scare off polar bears. But especially older and sturdy models such as the Garant can be used as crutches, tent poles, improvised hammers and picks, and so on. I could imagine using a futuristic rifle design along those lines, but also as range finder, directional scanner and communicator, and all sorts of other things.

S

 

[Hacker#451563]

We carried rifles up in the Arctic, to scare off polar bears

Bloody hell! I'd love to be able to honestly say that sentence.

 

[Sysmon]

Bloody hell! I'd love to be able to honestly say that sentence.

It came with a bit of swaggering at first, but after a few weeks lugging the things around in the field and I remembered why I got tired of rifles in the army as well. As in, they get heavy after a while, they get in the way, and they need to be kept clean.

S

 

[Nikephorus Phocas]

I wonder if we get to engage in Alchemy? Some alien flora that really gets you high as a Cobra.

 

[NeilF]

There's a couple of more parameters to add from Stellar Forge: Orbital eccentricity and rotational period. I don't recall from memory if we have rotational axis obliquity as well. But this way we have light cycles and seasonality represented. These can largely replace 10, or be inserted before it. They may add some commonality depending on climate variability.

EDIT: Ah yes we do have axial tilt. OK, seasons are sorted then.

S

Good call...

Clearly there's loads of inputs that can be used to feed into a procedural plant engine before even requiring just random values...

ps: I've added the list of example inputs to a procedural engine to the OP. I'll add your examples to it!

 

[Ignition]

I agree, it's not a great gameplay addition - unless FDev make scanning plants actually have some impact beyond a few credits and a sense of satisfaction. This is why I'm still leaning towards not buying Odyssey.

If we see what we have now, system exploration has some gameplay with the FSS but nothing exciting its just much better than the stupid honk but it still needs more complexity. Then we have the planetary scan, a VERY boring mechanic were you feel you're playing some facebook or phone game and not a spaceship game of 2020.
There's also the composition analysis aka stupid honk (its back) were you just press one button.
Im sure the plant scanner mechanic will be a click and hold button.

Seeing the strugle of FD to develop gameplay and player interaction for their game is really sad. 5 years to change the honk for a new but super simple exploration mechanic for its MILLIONS and MILLIONS of systems as they say. Something that should have been since 2014.

 

[NeilF]

If we see what we have now, system exploration has some gameplay with the FSS but nothing exciting its just much better than the stupid honk but it still needs more complexity. Then we have the planetary scan, a VERY boring mechanic were you feel you're playing some facebook or phone game and not a spaceship game of 2020.
There's also the composition analysis aka stupid honk (its back) were you just press one button.
Im sure the plant scanner mechanic will be a click and hold button.

Seeing the strugle of FD to develop gameplay and player interaction for their game is really sad. 5 years to change the honk for a new but super simple exploration mechanic for its MILLIONS and MILLIONS of systems as they say. Something that should have been since 2014.

"needs more complexity" - I agree, but suggest it needs layers ideally. ie: Some simple/accessible stuff for those interested in it, but then mechanics that need more juggling and investment for those interested in more challenging stuff.

What I find interesting about FD in last year or so of developments is their happiness to carry on limiting CMDRs exploration. An example with the new FSS:-

• Why does it anchor CMDRs to the spot? Why force this? Why limit what CMDRs can do? Why no allow them to use their SC time to an object by continuing on with a FSS? And this is just as much of an issue to dust covered Multicrew of course. Why can't another CMDR being using the FSS, while the ships owner flies the ship etc?
• The new SC Assistant would of course then have been great for explorers, who could have set in a location to a body in a newly explorered system they wished to surface scan, while then ducking back into the FSS to finish off scanning the system.

^ ie: Allowing mechanics to be layered/combined for variety and for CMDRs to better use their time.

I think we all suspect the new DNA gun being discussed will basically be point, hold and click, or at most some simple timing mini-game akin to sub-surface deposits (don't get me started on that!).

ps: I find the new system scanning mechanics tedious and not particularly enjoyable as it takes you away from the cockpit. I'd much more have prefered something like the addition of exploration drones which you could plot the course of to surface scan bodies in a system (which of course multicrew could control)... Juggling their courses and where you then meet back up with them in the system before departing... Anyway, I digress