ok i have to admit, there may be a problem

[Extreme_One]

How about people stop behaving like sociopaths? Making excuses for pathetic people who can't discipline themselves enough to act reasonably isn't a strength, it's a serious weakness.

Why do people think they can change human behaviour? History teaches us that it is impossible.

It's a complete waste of energy.

There are two simple options, in this game.

1) Leave Open and join Solo

or

2) accept that some humans are scumbags and you might meet one in-game.

Hopefully the Crime Update will help with the problem but it certainly won't eliminate it, so you're back to 1) or 2)

 

[Ydiss]

To add to my post above, I don't have a high opinion of players who prey on new players in known starter regions. In the pvp games I've played, some had level limits to prevent this (high levels couldn't attack lower levels unless they attacked first) and some had no limitations (true FFA).

I actually preferred the games with limitations but ed clearly cannot be one of those as we have no levels.

Newbie gankers are the worst kind of PKs. Particularly the ones who actively avoid fights against anyone who can give them a good fight. So the python player in this story is a wuss. No doubt about it.

The angle I'm coming from, however, is that no one should let it get them down. We're the only players who have full responsibility over whether we enjoy the game. If being killed in an unfair fight by a wuss who runs from anyone else upsets us, we can avoid it with 100% impunity.

Simply saying "I quit" or "it'll make players quit", when there are so many ways to avoid this scenario, is a defeatist approach and ignores the self-responsibility completely.

It is cutting off the nose to spite the face. ED is just as fun in a pve group as it is in open, for players who don't want to be randomly killed by a wuss. And when that player is ready to try "fair" pvp, they can join a pvp group, or open, at will.

 

[Kano Magnus]

Why do people think they can change human behaviour? History teaches us that it is impossible.

Quite the opposite

 

[Sandmann]

Why do people think they can change human behaviour? History teaches us that it is impossible.

It's a complete waste of energy.

The legal system might argue with you on this. They seem to think that laws and penalties and strict enforcement can at least control human nature for the most part, if not actually change it.

 

[znôrt]

The implication that a player's activity in game could be indicative of psychopathy IRL is horribly reductive.

it's an obvious indicative since we all are psychopaths to some extent. just like 'irl', it's a matter of what's deemed socially aceptable and not ... in any particular social group.

jerks gonna jerk, haters gonna hate, whiners gonna whine, preachers gonna preach ... welcome to open play!

 

[W4rSkuLL]

Damn, I am out of popcorn

 

[Extreme_One]

Quite the opposite

Care to elaborate?

The legal system might argue with you on this. They seem to think that laws and penalties and strict enforcement can at least control human nature for the most part, if not actually change it.

Unfortunately, the world I live in still has people that cheat at cards, don't stick to the speed limits, download pirated movies, use recreational drugs, psycopaths, murderers, rapists etc.

I see no evidence of any successes in trying to change human behaviour.

 

[Kano Magnus]

Care to elaborate?





Unfortunately, the world I live in still has people that cheat at cards, don't stick to the speed limits, download pirated movies, use recreational drugs, psycopaths, murderers, rapists etc.

I see no evidence of any successes in trying to change human behaviour.

Sorry mate, too busy hunting/gathering to reply

 

[Evil]

This isn't CoD. CoD is a dedicated PvP game with PvP functionality such as matchmaker and balance.

Elite is a sealclubbers haven for people who simply can't compete in fair PvP encounters, thus need to heavily stack the odds in their own favour to stand a chance.

Yup.. Structured PvP != Open PvP. Yeah sure stacking the odd's is fine tbh, on either side of the spectrum, which im sure will happen with the crime & danger update.

 

[Sandmann]

Unfortunately, the world I live in still has people that cheat at cards, don't stick to the speed limits, download pirated movies, use recreational drugs, psycopaths, murderers, rapists etc.

I see no evidence of any successes in trying to change human behaviour.

Oh yah? Can you imagine what the world you live in would be like WITHOUT the controlling influences and repercussions? You can buy a car and not have it stolen the same day. You can drive your car to the mall and buy your tv dinner with the money you earned from your job which lives in the nice secure bank. None of that would be possible without the laws and penalties. What you're complaining about is the outliers, the aberrations, the 1%. The vast majority of societies are well controlled, contained, and constrained.

 

[Makaan]

That's a dodgy argument.. it's like saying we shouldn't get upset at mass murdering arsonists because tornadoes do the same thing. It's about motivation. The NPC is following a script and random chances, and also is subject to a matchmaking server. The player WANTED to decimate some noob who could barely fly in a circle. If Sarah Jane was programming AIs that flew around in buffed pythons and specifically targeted vanilla sidewinders with harmless rankings she'd lose her job.

I said nothing about not be able to be "upset."

I'm trying to elaborate on why you can do nothing about this problem and why Frontier won't either.

But yeah, NPC's are scripted but they will still interdict a new player on occasion.

If it was an Npc that did this, you would not be seeing this thread.

It's only because a human player did it. Now I understand the argument and people have a right to be annoyed but you ain't going to stop it.

 

[Sandmann]

Sorry mate, too busy hunting/gathering to reply

The secret is to bang the rocks together.

- - - Updated - - -

I said nothing about not be able to be "upset."

I'm trying to elaborate on why you can do nothing about this problem and why Frontier won't either.

But yeah, NPC's are scripted but they will still interdict a new player on occasion.

If it was an Npc that did this, you would not be seeing this thread.

It's only because a human player did it. Now I understand the argument and people have a right to be annoyed but you ain't going to stop it.

Well FD seem to be planning on trying, hence the crime update that's a-comin'.

 

[Extreme_One]

Oh yah? Can you imagine what the world you live in would be like WITHOUT the controlling influences and repercussions?.

Of course I can imagine.

It doesn't change anything though.

The legal system does very little to change human behaviour, it's mainly about punishment and making the victim feel better

How many convicted criminals that have spent time in jail go on to re-offend?

You cannot change human behaviour. Unfortunately.

 

[Ydiss]

Oh yah? Can you imagine what the world you live in would be like WITHOUT the controlling influences and repercussions? You can buy a car and not have it stolen the same day. You can drive your car to the mall and buy your tv dinner with the money you earned from your job which lives in the nice secure bank. None of that would be possible without the laws and penalties. What you're complaining about is the outliers, the aberrations, the 1%. The vast majority of societies are well controlled, contained, and constrained.

It should be said that ED should be designed to offer more legal protection in high security systems.

But then we've all been saying this for ages, now.

 

[Sandmann]

On a completely separate and derailing note, I'm currently downloading (what I believe is) the Cross platform PC client for the Mac beta test.. so I might be disappearing real soon.

- - - Updated - - -

The legal system does very little to change human behaviour, it's mainly about punishment and making the victim feel better

How many convicted criminals that have spent time in jail go on to re-offend?

Recidivism rates vary across countries, but in western societies they're about 30% for the first conviction, higher for later ones. This demonstrates that while the prison system doesn't rehabilitate EVERYONE, it prevents the majority from reoffending (either that or it teaches them to be better crims so they don't get caught ).

So you're sort of right, you can't change human nature... but you CAN control it.

(There's actually a bunch of experimental data that strongly suggests that you CAN change human nature... we call it behavioural modification and there's two methods generally used.. operant conditioning and classical conditioning. They're quite effective.)

 

[W0OCQCK]

I dont like whiners, i hate when people bang on and on about people killing u for no reason. i thought they might be exxaggerating becuase this was not my experience in the game.

however

i just convinced one of my steam friends to try this game. i decided to take him to a res and earn him some good cash tog et him started.

i instructed him to wait outside the RES so that i could go in and check it.becuase if it was a bad RES with low value pirates i could come out and go back in to reset it.

so there he is waiting outside combat rating harmless and sitting in a sidey.

im checking the res when he says to me oh ive been interdicted.

im coming i said and started leaving the res. he says dont worry this has happened before ill just warp off.

ok i think but i continue on toward him just in case.

he starts saying omg im dying. so i pick up the pace. cant find him in space. so i instructing him on how to activate a wingman nav beacon.

he activates it and i activate nav lock. eventually i get pulled out of SC.

and what do i find.

my friend in a harmless sidewinder. is being set upon by a player ina python.

.

im in a python as well, fit for combat. i start to boost towards the enemy python opening fire as i do roughly 3km out.

i dont make it in and time my friend dies.

i was and still am absolutley disgusted.

i chased the enemy python into a nearby res. but he immediatley eneterd sc again. io followed but then got a proximity warning and dropped out of warp and lost him.

my friends and fellow CMDRs this behaviour is simply unacceptable.

there is no challenge no real victory in doing what the enemy CMDR in the python did. its like an adult picking on a child honestly.

it appauls me.

I'd give, "Mobius" a try. See my sig.

 

[Nanako]

Care to elaborate?

Unfortunately, the world I live in still has people that cheat at cards, don't stick to the speed limits, download pirated movies, use recreational drugs, psycopaths, murderers, rapists etc.

I see no evidence of any successes in trying to change human behaviour.

Human behavior is difficult to change as the ones that live & learn grow old and die. They pass on some things to the next generation but the new ones also gotta live & learn.
We are getting there but it might take another 1400~2000 years.

As for pvp... well griefing is part of it, but you have choice to either fight back or ignore it.

 

[SteveLaw]

How many convicted criminals that have spent time in jail go on to re-offend?

Fewer than 100%

 

[Riktar]

Unfortunately, the world I live in still has people that cheat at cards, don't stick to the speed limits, download pirated movies, use recreational drugs, psycopaths, murderers, rapists etc.

I see no evidence of any successes in trying to change human behaviour.

You are not looking hard enough.....

Recidivism rates vary across countries, but in western societies they're about 30% for the first conviction, higher for later ones. This demonstrates that while the prison system doesn't rehabilitate EVERYONE, it prevents the majority from reoffending (either that or it teaches them to be better crims so they don't get caught ).

So you're sort of right, you can't change human nature... but you CAN control it.

I would change "control" to "influence". Not to the point of completely disagreeing with your premise, rather, I am stating my view of your premise.

IE: No one in their right mind thinks ANY law will 100% eliminate a problem. Absolutes just don't exist in the real world. Or in games either. So you just make an estimate on how to hit the highest percentage of influence you can with any "rule" or "law".

 

[Extreme_One]

Fewer than 100%

My mistake I must have been thinking about reality instead of the utopian society some of the people in this thread seem to occupy.

It sounds lovely.