To be fair to FD, they seem to have made a good compromise, by having Open and Solo modes. I know that there are a large number of people out there who want an mmo, but conversely there are also a large number of people who want solo. What would be really interesting would be to see the numbers showing the current amount of people playing solo/open and then maybe FD could tackle the reason why I suspect so many play solo only. Maybe they could have two universes, whereby in open mode, the trade routes give a better return?
One Simple suggestion that could nullify the Solo/Open argument AND end the fear of Greifing
- Thread starter Snakebite
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I have been playing in Open since it was playable, and I can count the times I've been interdicted by a player with one hand.
I see we have a similar gaming history, except I only have limited experience with consoles, arthritis and other reasons. But really, all this experience talk is just flim-flam. Your first statement that ED is aimed at solo players just isn't true. ED is designed as a player co-op game... ok, the 'co-op' part certainly isn't there yet but once wings are introduced i think we will be well on the way. And your second statement? Well, if you can use 'gaming experience' as your guide in this then so can I and I obviously don't agree with you. Only time will settle this point. Anyway, i am glad you have admitted that your remarks are conjecture, just a shame that you first stated them as fact. Sadly, you then go on, in this post, to add further conjecture-veiled-as-fact by your sureness that a) the majority of ED's older players have only played Elite in '84 and b) that those not in this group will agree with you.
I'm sorry you find it annoying my reminding the readership that, although they maybe not be the sole people advocating open play, it is the PvPers that are by far the most vocal and vociferous for it to be so. But not half as annoying as I find the constant pointless push to remove choice from ED. So, if it is ok with you, I'll keep on doing as i see fit.
No, I am well aware that PvP does not always follow the structure you think you have deduced is by belief from my posts. I fully understand the concept of open PvP. If you have read some of my posts you have obviously missed the ones where I admit to playing in PvP only games. The difference I am drawing is that in ED, PvP is not the main mechanic or even a particularly important aspect of the game. Unfortunately, way too many of the PvP fraternity seem to think it is.
The rest of your post I can wholeheartedly agree... oh wait. Just one thing. You do understand that there are different types of MMO where ED's 'multiplayer' does not fit with the general understanding of the word, yes? So you aren't trying to force the round peg of ED into the square hole of previous MMOs? No? Good, knew you were too smart for that.
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Bye the way, this is the definition of a griefer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer. Simply killing someone in a game, that by design allows other players to kill each other, isn't griefing.
+1 True that, a lot I have noticed also seem to get the term troll incorrect as well - but what do I know I am old skool
(Not saying "you're" trolling so don't take that the wrong way just agreeing with you)
+1 True that, a lot I have noticed also seem to get the term troll incorrect as well - but what do I know I am old skool
Stop trolling
Perfect example - thank you.
And again we have the exact same problem: the problem of griefing is completely exaggerated, and all online interaction is sacrificed for the sake of a myth. The online component is bad enough already, best not give it the coup de grace.
And then, you can still distinguish players from NPCs, it's rather easy, they don't fly the same way, don't dock the same way, don't SC the same way... so it in fact gives you a free ticket to griefing but then you can just pretend you didn't know when you perfectly knew.
Also I'd love to hear some griefing stories. Really. How much griefing is there in this game?
I like the idea of not differentiating players and NPCs on the radar, though a simple push up ot the comms section will tell you if there are other players in the system. And I also agree with the assertion that it wouldn't do anything to ameliorate the perceived risk that causes players to go Solo.
I think what FD should focus on instead is finding ways to entice players into Open play, whether that is via better resource nodes that spawn only in Open, or missions types only available in Open, etc. Not to cripple players that choose Solo, but to entice them to take a risk because the reward is worth it.
Not to bring up the hated comparison, but Eve does something similar with the nullsec space, and having better spawns there as a way to entice people into those areas. Perhaps it could something as simple as, Rare goods only spawn in Open gameplay; or in Open gameplay the carry limit for Rares is higher. Or lower respawn period. Etc.
I think what FD should focus on instead is finding ways to entice players into Open play, whether that is via better resource nodes that spawn only in Open, or missions types only available in Open, etc. Not to cripple players that choose Solo, but to entice them to take a risk because the reward is worth it.
Not to bring up the hated comparison, but Eve does something similar with the nullsec space, and having better spawns there as a way to entice people into those areas. Perhaps it could something as simple as, Rare goods only spawn in Open gameplay; or in Open gameplay the carry limit for Rares is higher. Or lower respawn period. Etc.
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Surely it's obvious which is which without any explicit player indicator?
How can you activate this flag? When? Does it automatically enables if you shoot at another player? Can another player intentionally fly into your line of fire to activate your flag and then proceed to shoot you? Is there a delay? Can a swarm of players take turns to shoot at a target while deactivating it when shot at? What happens of the projectiles? Can you prevent a player from legitmately shooting at a target by standing between the two and magically stop the projectiles?
The more complex the system, the more exploits there are. More systems won't protect you, they'll only make griefing much worse. Which is part of the reason why sandboxes are generally free from griefing.
I personally like this comment, what i think would sort the men from the boys is this:
Make it so you cant swap between solo and open. Its been said already, but seriously, then we will really see who truly wants to play the game solo, and who is just talking crap and wants to gear up and then jump into open in a python or anaconda and make out they are legends.
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This!
The odds of being griefed in ED, range from slim to anorexic.
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I respect what you are saying, but im not trying to force any pegs into any holes. I just want a game like ED, that also has great multiplayer functionality. Right now it has next to none, and the stuff it does have half the playerbase hides from.
There is no hole there, nor any peg. There is just nothing right now. I don't want to get into *** for tat with you, we both seem like decent enough fellows. My point about your pvp comments was with reference to you earlier advising someone about using a private pvp group. I couldn't think of anything worse. Its too scripted and expected. As you say pvp isn't a major focus of this game, its just one eventuality that can arise in your dealings with others in your travels, both NPC and human. So its contradictory to say people should have to join a group to focus on that aspect. I don't want to join a group, i don't even say i want to pvp that much, its just nice to know its a remote possibility.
I also didn't veil anything as fact, its simply obvious to me that half the people i end up in discussions with on here seem to largely have played the first elite and be older gamers.
What are your thoughts on making solo mode not transferrable to open?
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I can't see how this is ever going to get resolved to be honest, I think FD have tried to make ED "all things to all men (and women)" and you have two distinct camps/voices/opinions, both who want their version of ED to be the "ONE
Maybe FD should have persevered with offline mode, but I think they saw themselves losing a large customer base if they did not offer some sort of solo mode. One thing I am quite sure of, is I am getting sick and tired of reading posts from people claiming their gaming credentials, Joe Spivey is absolutely right, it means nothing if you have been gaming since, 1980 blah blah blah, it looks like most of us here have. We all have different tastes and ideas on what a game should be and should do.
I previously stated that I am a keen Flightsimulator/Virtual air Traffic controller fan and we have constant arguments on Vatsim on how realistic the ATC should be, right down to whether we should be allowed to say please and thank you after giving an ATC instruction over the comms, that's how bad it can get. At the end of the day, it's just a game/hobby/means of entertainment.
Maybe a way to encourage people to move over to open mode is for the promised upcoming game improvements, such as being able to walk around the ship/hanger/station, landing on planets etc to be only available in open mode, I just don't know? But what I do know is that whatever is proposed will be fought by a vociferous few, with backstabbing, complaining, cat fighting, scratching your eyes out, going on throughout these forums, who think that only their view counts. The game has only been out on general release 19 days and look at all the arguments, whining, gnashing of teeth, pulling of hair out it has caused already. Anybody who has a slight difference of opinion is being cast a witch ready to be burned at the stake, Burn them Burn Them, Heretics etc. "How do you know she's a witch? Because she turned me in to a newt!, - I got better!"
Me I'm just going to keep on grinding away making credits, watching some "Python" (not the ship) to keep me sane and try to visit just a small proportion of the so called 400 Billion start systems that are available
Bigtaff
Just trying to stay sane in the Elite asylum (sorry universe)
Maybe FD should have persevered with offline mode, but I think they saw themselves losing a large customer base if they did not offer some sort of solo mode. One thing I am quite sure of, is I am getting sick and tired of reading posts from people claiming their gaming credentials, Joe Spivey is absolutely right, it means nothing if you have been gaming since, 1980 blah blah blah, it looks like most of us here have. We all have different tastes and ideas on what a game should be and should do.
I previously stated that I am a keen Flightsimulator/Virtual air Traffic controller fan and we have constant arguments on Vatsim on how realistic the ATC should be, right down to whether we should be allowed to say please and thank you after giving an ATC instruction over the comms, that's how bad it can get. At the end of the day, it's just a game/hobby/means of entertainment.
Maybe a way to encourage people to move over to open mode is for the promised upcoming game improvements, such as being able to walk around the ship/hanger/station, landing on planets etc to be only available in open mode, I just don't know? But what I do know is that whatever is proposed will be fought by a vociferous few, with backstabbing, complaining, cat fighting, scratching your eyes out, going on throughout these forums, who think that only their view counts. The game has only been out on general release 19 days and look at all the arguments, whining, gnashing of teeth, pulling of hair out it has caused already. Anybody who has a slight difference of opinion is being cast a witch ready to be burned at the stake, Burn them Burn Them, Heretics etc. "How do you know she's a witch? Because she turned me in to a newt!, - I got better!"
Me I'm just going to keep on grinding away making credits, watching some "Python" (not the ship) to keep me sane and try to visit just a small proportion of the so called 400 Billion start systems that are available
Bigtaff
Just trying to stay sane in the Elite asylum (sorry universe)
I can't see how this is ever going to get resolved to be honest, I think FD have tried to make ED "all things to all men (and women)" and you have two distinct camps/voices/opinions, both who want their version of ED to be the "ONE
Maybe FD should have persevered with offline mode, but I think they saw themselves losing a large customer base if they did not offer some sort of solo mode. One thing I am quite sure of, is I am getting sick and tired of reading posts from people claiming their gaming credentials, Joe Spivey is absolutely right, it means nothing if you have been gaming since, 1980 blah blah blah, it looks like most of us here have. We all have different tastes and ideas on what a game should be and should do.
I previously stated that I am a keen Flightsimulator/Virtual air Traffic controller fan and we have constant arguments on Vatsim on how realistic the ATC should be, right down to whether we should be allowed to say please and thank you after giving an ATC instruction over the comms, that's how bad it can get. At the end of the day, it's just a game/hobby/means of entertainment.
Maybe a way to encourage people to move over to open mode is for the promised upcoming game improvements, such as being able to walk around the ship/hanger/station, landing on planets etc to be only available in open mode, I just don't know? But what I do know is that whatever is proposed will be fought by a vociferous few, with backstabbing, complaining, cat fighting, scratching your eyes out, going on throughout these forums, who think that only their view counts. The game has only been out on general release 19 days and look at all the arguments, whining, gnashing of teeth, pulling of hair out it has caused already. Anybody who has a slight difference of opinion is being cast a witch ready to be burned at the stake, Burn them Burn Them, Heretics etc. "How do you know she's a witch? Because she turned me in to a newt!, - I got better!"
Me I'm just going to keep on grinding away making credits, watching some "Python" (not the ship) to keep me sane and try to visit just a small proportion of the so called 400 Billion start systems that are available
Bigtaff
Just trying to stay sane in the Elite asylum (sorry universe)
True enough taff, like a cup of cold water in my face, i see your point. Im just going to give up commenting here and chill. Lets see what happens in the future.
Time will tell.
Though i do think that making solo mode non transferrable to open mode is a good answer. If people want solo mode so much, then thats all good. But they shouldn't be able to choose to have their cake and eat it, chopping and changing when the fancy takes them. If some are as dedicated to not interacting with others as they say, then fine, lets see how committed that people really are. It shouldn't be an issue for a lot of the ones i hear arguing for solo mode.
Ill leave it at that.
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True enough taff, like a cup of cold water in my face, i see your point. Im just going to give up commenting here and chill. Lets see what happens in the future.
Time will tell.
Though i do think that making solo mode non transferrable to open mode is a good answer. If people want solo mode so much, then thats all good. But they shouldn't be able to choose to have their cake and eat it, chopping and changing when the fancy takes them. If some are as dedicated to not interacting with others as they say, then fine, lets see how committed that people really are. It shouldn't be an issue for a lot of the ones i hear arguing for solo mode.
Ill leave it at that.
As a solo player (for the moment), I actually don't have a problem with that as long as it swings both ways. After all the experience/tricks and tips you learn in solo you can still use in open, just not your money, rep or ships. but I'm sure someone will slag me off for just agreeing to that!
I think it will be a rerun of "Life of Brian" (that's got a spaceship in it!) tonight.
Bigtaff
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Given that private groups would exist - there would be no need to create a solo commander, ever (in a hard mode split scenario). Simply create a "private group" commander and choose between a personal group (i.e. solo) or something the size of the Mobius group (over 2,000 players and expected to rise when the group management system is fixed). So, creating a barrier between open and the other modes would not create solitude for players - far from it. It would allow them to pick and choose between controlled membership groups as and when they choose to. I would expect that the only mode to really suffer from a hard split would be open.
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Only if/when there's wings. I have enough trouble finding my friend.
You can almost always differentiate, even if the scanner blips are the same shape. E.g., NPC flight patterns are very particular (especially around stations — anyone who's seen a Type 9 hopelessly stuck in a docking snafu seemingly impossible to get into will know); NPC names and PC names have different ‘feels’; some PCs will have PC-only decals (e.g. Day 1 Decal, when it comes out); and of course there's the voice comms test and Turing test: just chat with them to find out.
All of these are heuristics with false positives and false negatives, but all you could possibly hope for is some confusion.
I'm not 100% decided on whether it'd make things better this way but it has been discussed before, during the early DDF days and the consensus was it's better to be able to differentiate than not to.
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