The last few pages I've mostly been arguing for the tiniest of changes- a reduction in wing merits for PG, keeping Open the same as it is. Thats not exactly excessive.
Open-Only in PP2.0?
- Thread starter August Lagrange
- Start date
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Remove wing merits completely from the feature - and there's no need to remove cargo if a credible risk/difficulty calculation method with suitable factors was in place.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
There's no reasonable reason to retain wing merits in any mode - as it's a magical multiplier that rewards reduced risk/difficulty due to simply being in a wing.
If a workable solution could be found. Plus keeping cargo logging out (when that cargo / merits are vital to the feature) is a minor loophole.
FD saw it as an incentive for PG and Open. Is it gimmicky? Yes. But its an incentive that people use (and abuse) in Powerplay.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It is not beyond the realms of possibility that a workable solution can be found.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
In which case it should remain equally for both multi-player modes - as it is a bung for working together - or removed entirely.
You mean cheaters, were cheating.
I think you'll find that will happen no matter what. The NPCs are completely irrelevant to that behaviour.
Really?
Because you keep suggesting they don't even slow you down a little bit.
I said they slow me down.
They are 2 very different experiences.
Of course, your wing of 4 combat ships will have a very different time versus my T9 when it comes to the NPCs
My ship and abilities don't change from Solo, PG or Open. You're implying that by swapping modes I suddenly become the arbiter of death to NPCs.
So you're being ridiculous.
An advantage is when someone has or can use something someone else cannot - and I do know someone who lives in the back of beyond, on such a poor connect Elite won't even load in PG or Open. He can only play Solo. So you would have an advantage over him, as you'd be able to play Open and his game just hangs if he tries.
It has downsides, which I've posted before in the SOG / Hotel California threads.
No mode is perfect.
The modes are just a multiplayer filter. The game is the game regardless of the mode.
So if something doesn't work, it's not the mode's fault, it's a design issue with the feature or a problem with the expectation of the players.
PP1.0 is definitely option 2. And I think PP2.0 will have the same flaw - players not understanding how the game was built, and expecting more from it than it can provide.
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Lets just ban PvP then, problem solved in all modes.
But seriously how often do you actually see folks in Open? I did PP in Open for a few weeks and saw not a sausage.
The only reason i prefer to do it in PG is it takes away the anxiety, i can relax and have fun, that's what i want to do when I'm not worrying about 20K people on a festival site
O7
Okay;
Wing merit changes - fine, as that will impact Open and PG. So great, add that to the agreement column with NPC changes.
Locking cargo to the mode you pick it up - you know what, I'll give you that one as well. Mode hopping to refresh instancing etc is in my eyes an exploit. Add this to the list.
Fingers crossed!
Double excellent!
Every time I've logged on I've had other people flying about, some allied, some neutral and others.....a bit angry. The only time I've had trouble is when I once winged with Vurrath, the mission bugged out and I got a massive essay on the merits of communism line by line in the comms box.Lets just ban PvP then, problem solved in all modes.
But seriously how often do you actually see folks in Open? I did PP in Open for a few weeks and saw not a sausage.
The only reason i prefer to do it in PG is it takes away the anxiety, i can relax and have fun, that's what i want to do when I'm not worrying about 20K people on a festival site
O7
The point here was hostile NPCs barely interacted enough to challenge them. When they did, the bot would log and try again IIRC.
The vast majority of NPCs when they do appear are wings of two low power NPCs. The very worst I've got was when I defected to LYR for Packhounds and had two Anacondas after me. I would have been scared but they had no interdictors and did loops around me due to a bug.
For the majority the rank and file PP NPCs so far are rubbish. If they were not, AFK T-10s in PG would not work.
As for your friend, solo is still an option regardless, but maybe for a game that requires a stable connection he chose the wrong game? When I was on poverty internet I accepted sometimes its on me when I had a disconnection because it is a live game.
This is true. Its why you have to play to each modes strengths, something Powerplay (at least V1) never did. It (PP) was a Venn diagram of all EDs weakness.
For the wider game I agree with you. For Powerplay it has consequences. But I do agree good design goes a long way and I look forward to seeing what V2 brings.
V1 had the problem of absent NPCs with poor persistence leading to empty repetition. V2 is much more local and decentralized so hopefully 4.X BGS goodies can be used to fill this void.
But again PG is invite only while Open is a nightclub with no dress code. Considering in Open you have other players, (hopefully) capable NPCs in V2 you should get more back. But as we said before, if a more granular approach is found I'd not weep too much on its removal. I'm not sure how the wider game would feel though.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Indeed - however the Wing bonus is for being in a Wing, not making oneself available for PvP.
I don't want to derail the topic because I've become overtime more of a bgs player and lately have joined PP to do bgs necessarities related to that, but I really can't wrap my head around people wanting constantly (for both sheer PP fortif/undermine etc or bgs fav/unfav governments) this option of remaining in solo or pg and constantly use the "ganker excuses" and "I just wanna chill" arguments.
Whether it would be PP or BGS, I'd love to see some kind of effort bonus system for people playing in Open. It's not about "ganking" being the problem - on an Open player point of view, mind you - it's the implication of playing in Open means playing sub optimally for those tasks: when I do open I have to take into consideration quite a lot of factors and how I'd operate, choose and build several ships with Open in mind, consider risk intake and do I need to be in a wing. How do I adjust to a rebuy or even, is it worth heading on over to finding foes or interrogate unidentified cmdrs and their goals meaning not clocking in bgs/pp effort. I know, shocker. Finding people and surveying their activities, engaging in dialogue is also actually a thing, not just ganking.
SPEED when operating in Open is a necessity but for more reasons than solo/pg.
In solo/pg, there is nothing to effectively stop you or slow you down significantly. The risks are virtually none. You can min-max builds with all the factors that would be coming from Open and be more effective time wise throughout a tick or a cycle. Case in point someone mentioned being in a cutter with minimal shields to protect just from mailslot/landing oopsies more than just straightline boosting away possibly from a npc interdicting you.
I'd love to see a simple, per tick/cycle system where as long as you stay in Open for that duration your efforts are getting a bonus exclusive from that mode. You switch once to solo/pg mode within that tick or cycle and revert back to Open, the bonus until said cycle or tick has expired be calculated as solo/pg.
With the engineering love up and running now, I hope that ppl that has a "cba extra engineering" go out the door. I know I will, I made several Open emphasized ships but stopped midway of my projected builds because of the grueling amounts of time burnt into gathering mats. When you're a bgs/PP (or as myself in example now both), time every day every week is of importance; going out for engineering means less done.
If Open doesn't get some form of bonus system on top of the engineering relief that could incite at least some of you if it's been your roadblock to try, then indeed a serious consideration into turning NPC's in solo/pg actually not just "a nuisance" is a viable option.
Oh and at least, it would possibly limit the effectiveness of some people having their little swarm of botting unicorns. Or maybe for the defiant ones to see them in Open and hopefully see some actions taken against them account wise.
Whether it would be PP or BGS, I'd love to see some kind of effort bonus system for people playing in Open. It's not about "ganking" being the problem - on an Open player point of view, mind you - it's the implication of playing in Open means playing sub optimally for those tasks: when I do open I have to take into consideration quite a lot of factors and how I'd operate, choose and build several ships with Open in mind, consider risk intake and do I need to be in a wing. How do I adjust to a rebuy or even, is it worth heading on over to finding foes or interrogate unidentified cmdrs and their goals meaning not clocking in bgs/pp effort. I know, shocker. Finding people and surveying their activities, engaging in dialogue is also actually a thing, not just ganking.
SPEED when operating in Open is a necessity but for more reasons than solo/pg.
In solo/pg, there is nothing to effectively stop you or slow you down significantly. The risks are virtually none. You can min-max builds with all the factors that would be coming from Open and be more effective time wise throughout a tick or a cycle. Case in point someone mentioned being in a cutter with minimal shields to protect just from mailslot/landing oopsies more than just straightline boosting away possibly from a npc interdicting you.
I'd love to see a simple, per tick/cycle system where as long as you stay in Open for that duration your efforts are getting a bonus exclusive from that mode. You switch once to solo/pg mode within that tick or cycle and revert back to Open, the bonus until said cycle or tick has expired be calculated as solo/pg.
With the engineering love up and running now, I hope that ppl that has a "cba extra engineering" go out the door. I know I will, I made several Open emphasized ships but stopped midway of my projected builds because of the grueling amounts of time burnt into gathering mats. When you're a bgs/PP (or as myself in example now both), time every day every week is of importance; going out for engineering means less done.
If Open doesn't get some form of bonus system on top of the engineering relief that could incite at least some of you if it's been your roadblock to try, then indeed a serious consideration into turning NPC's in solo/pg actually not just "a nuisance" is a viable option.
Oh and at least, it would possibly limit the effectiveness of some people having their little swarm of botting unicorns. Or maybe for the defiant ones to see them in Open and hopefully see some actions taken against them account wise.
And if its so gamified having it linked to Open at least allows for some form of moderation.
AFK ships shouldn't work anyway. Regardless of the activity.
That shows a much wider issue with the game, not just PP.
Just to clarify; normally I would actually agree with you. I wouldn't usually support this line of reasoning and in any other game, I wouldn't.
A person's internet access is their own responsibility. And sometimes it just sucks to live in rural areas.
However, did you forget David Braben played Elite: Dangerous using a laptop and mobile phone's internet connection? (10 years ago now)
The whole point was anyone could play, even those with bad connections could still play the game and have access to the entire game.
Frontier went out of their way to prove they'd made a game that could use even a really bad connection - so my friend bought it on the strength of that.
Locking content away (or tilting the rewards away) from a mode he is forced to play after them saying he can play it - well that's when I have to change my stance.
[The link to the article quoting DB; https://www.pcgamer.com/elite-dangerous-boss-says-online-only-is-the-right-decision/ )
Very true.
PG by there very nature means I only allow people I know in my PG and no nonconsensual PVP is allowed . Mobius is slightly different as its multiple PG's that are generally of like-minded people who don't want PvP. Some idiot will slip through once in a blue moon because it's Mobius.... But it doesn't happen very often as there are checks done before you get in.
In my 9 yes of playing have never had nonconsensual PVP in my PG and or anytime in the Mobius PG's .
I have dabbled with PVP when playing in open ( whilst being a member of Mobius ).