Open-Only in PP2.0?

[Jockey79]

I don't really get what you mean by unfun PvP people, when destruction is a valid goal to drive strategy, and, aside from foul language in chat (which should be blockable) is the worst you can do.

So someone who has been in the game for 3 minutes, in an unmodified Sidewinder, struggling to figure out the game - suddenly getting blasted to space dust for no in game reason whatsoever.... is fun then?

Maybe for the person with the guns. Not so much for the person who then logs out, does a Steam refund and walks away.

There are lots of reasons PvP is unfun. And you know there is, so please don't act like all PvP'ers and encounters are innocent when you know better.

I've been attacked in Open for no reason at all. I wasn't attached to powerplay faction at the time, I wasn't in a hauler with expensive cargo - I was testing something in a new unarmed ship and minding my own business. Then nothing in chat, no warning, no hint of a reason I'm being attacked. That was unfun PvP.
The only reason I didn't complain about it was I'd forgotten I was in Open mode at the time and was distracted. So I blame myself for not swapping modes.

 

[Darrack]

Way ahead of you:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/crazy-idea-no-fortifying-but-spinning-plates-style-undermining-via-spies.428302/

Nooooo leave my hauling alone!!!!

O7

 

[Rubbernuke]

So someone who has been in the game for 3 minutes, in an unmodified Sidewinder, struggling to figure out the game - suddenly getting blasted to space dust for no in game reason whatsoever.... is fun then?

Maybe for the person with the guns. Not so much for the person who then logs out, does a Steam refund and walks away.

There are lots of reasons PvP is unfun. And you know there is, so please don't act like all PvP'ers and encounters are innocent when you know better.

I've been attacked in Open for no reason at all. I wasn't attached to powerplay faction at the time, I wasn't in a hauler with expensive cargo - I was testing something in a new unarmed ship and minding my own business. Then nothing in chat, no warning, no hint of a reason I'm being attacked. That was unfun PvP.
The only reason I didn't complain about it was I'd forgotten I was in Open mode at the time and was distracted. So I blame myself for not swapping modes.

So in the first 3 minutes they pledge in Powerplay and decide to fly to a PP hotspot in Open? When I posed that question it was regards Powerplay, nothing else.

Like I keep saying, I'm not in favour of the BGS or any aspect outside of Powerplay being Open locked.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Nooooo leave my hauling alone!!!!

O7

Powerplay: Ryanair

 

[Jockey79]

So in the first 3 minutes they pledge in Powerplay and decide to fly to a PP hotspot in Open? When I posed that question it was regards Powerplay, nothing else.

Misquoting me doesn't help you, and you didn't say it was a PP only response, it was the start of a new paragraph. So perhaps you should have been clear your comment was regarding PP only.

That being said, the type of people I've referenced can, do and will continue to use PP as an excuse to be jerks.
They sign up for the sole purpose of killing other players in weaker ships than themselves, then call themselves "PvP'ers" and they don't even bother hiding the fact they do not check if someone is signed up or not.

Like I keep saying, I'm not in favour of the BGS or any aspect outside of Powerplay being Open locked.

I know. But others are - go back and read Sandros constant reminders the BGS wouldn't be next after PP. Which supports my "give an inch" attitude.

I am against any mode getting bonuses over another mode. Your rewards are the additional social interactions and excitement for playing that mode - which is what you chose.

 

[Rubbernuke]

That being said, the type of people I've referenced can, do and will continue to use PP as an excuse to be jerks.
They sign up for the sole purpose of killing other players in weaker ships than themselves, then call themselves "PvP'ers" and they don't even bother hiding the fact they do not check if someone is signed up or not.

But thats the paradox- Powerplay in open is violence with context. Its not like the wider game where I'd agree its counter productive. Inside Powerplay its someone directly stopping someone else.

Misquoting me doesn't help you, and you didn't say it was a PP only response, it was the start of a new paragraph. So perhaps you should have been clear your comment was regarding PP only.

I assumed because this is inside a thread marked 'Open Only in Powerplay' it was implied what the context was.

I know. But others are - go back and read Sandros constant reminders the BGS wouldn't be next after PP. Which supports my "give an inch" attitude.

And for what its worth I'll continue to say what I do.

I am against any mode getting bonuses over another mode. Your rewards are the additional social interactions and excitement for playing that mode - which is what you chose.

But again, thats only half the 'reward' - it satisfies the low level ED gameplay but its not addressing the strategic element which involves a lot. And since it is a game, that should have some material reward for doing more. For example, IIRC (I'd have to check) I seem to remember one dev saying that one reward might be free rebuys, which means you can try as much as you like in open for Powerplay.

 

[Darkfyre99]

I don't really get what you mean by unfun PvP people, when destruction is a valid goal to drive strategy, and, aside from foul language in chat (which should be blockable) is the worst you can do. Its ironic that the most 'toxic' people on the forum loved the idea of a strategic game where PvP mattered. It gave context to something that lacked a reason elsewhere- they wanted to be the hauler evading, the hunter attacking or overwatch defending.

That’s kind of my point: in Elite Dangerous, at least in my experience, the “unfun PvP people” aren’t really around as much as other games I’ve played. Open is a way more fun place without them, and that’s to everyone’s benefit. If you have no idea what I’m talking about, then consider yourself blessed.

 

[Lu-v H8-2020]

So someone who has been in the game for 3 minutes, in an unmodified Sidewinder, struggling to figure out the game - suddenly getting blasted to space dust for no in game reason whatsoever.... is fun then?

Maybe for the person with the guns. Not so much for the person who then logs out, does a Steam refund and walks away.

There are lots of reasons PvP is unfun. And you know there is, so please don't act like all PvP'ers and encounters are innocent when you know better.

I've been attacked in Open for no reason at all. I wasn't attached to powerplay faction at the time, I wasn't in a hauler with expensive cargo - I was testing something in a new unarmed ship and minding my own business. Then nothing in chat, no warning, no hint of a reason I'm being attacked. That was unfun PvP.
The only reason I didn't complain about it was I'd forgotten I was in Open mode at the time and was distracted. So I blame myself for not swapping modes.

I recall my first 3 minutes. I was reading a whole bunch of things and slowly seeping in the cockpit panels.... in the starter systems. In solo (that part of the UI was obvious choicing.)
If you blame yourself for not being in pg/solo, why is it okay for an unreasonable example of a newcomer to get destroyed within 3 minutes and not seeing the more obvious game modes before being sent into the game in the first place thus making a refund?

 

[Robert Maynard]

That’s kind of my point: in Elite Dangerous, at least in my experience, the “unfun PvP people” aren’t really around as much as other games I’ve played. Open is a way more fun place without them, and that’s to everyone’s benefit. If you have no idea what I’m talking about, then consider yourself blessed.

Likely because no in-game feature is arbitrarily restricted to Open only.

 

[Jockey79]

But thats the paradox- Powerplay in open is violence with context. Its not like the wider game where I'd agree its counter productive. Inside Powerplay its someone directly stopping someone else.

I'm not arguing that. It seems like a perfect summary of it.

I assumed because this is inside a thread marked 'Open Only in Powerplay' it was implied what the context was.

The thread with how many side topics, tangents and off topic posts you mean?

And for what its worth I'll continue to say what I do.

And I'll keep reminding people of the game design and continued support of the original features, including the mode system.
As well as pointing out the network flaws that will undermine any content being Open Only/weighted

But again, thats only half the 'reward' - it satisfies the low level ED gameplay but its not addressing the strategic element which involves a lot. And since it is a game, that should have some material reward for doing more. For example, IIRC (I'd have to check) I seem to remember one dev saying that one reward might be free rebuys, which means you can try as much as you like in open for Powerplay.

The social interactions and thrill of the unknown is the reward for Open Mode, if that isn't a big enough reward for you, then reevaluate why you use Open Mode.
And you're not "doing more". You're playing the game how you want to play it, with added interactions, meeting new people, not knowing how each play session will play out.

I can argue you're getting more out of the game than someone in Solo, so they should get an increased payout due to not getting all the thrills, spills and randomness you get.

 

[Wily Rites]

I do have an idea for a protocol that could be used to monitor for this behaviour, I'm not certain that it would be logistically possible due to encryption/decryption requirements, but a plan for a protocol and solution, a hypothesis yes; I'd love to discuss it with a dev to find out whether or not it would be feasible.

Oh man would I love to pass some code to the Pilots' Federation that puts a kernel on every ship that enables a sane tracking mechanism, that permits the law to make rational decisions, something that worked well enough to be able to strip them of both rank and engineering; For behaviour that is unbefitting of an elite pilot.

... oddly enough, it is based upon a wheel.

 

[Doctor Dread]

So someone who has been in the game for 3 minutes, in an unmodified Sidewinder, struggling to figure out the game - suddenly getting blasted to space dust for no in game reason whatsoever.... is fun then?

Maybe for the person with the guns. Not so much for the person who then logs out, does a Steam refund and walks away.

There are lots of reasons PvP is unfun. And you know there is, so please don't act like all PvP'ers and encounters are innocent when you know better.

I've been attacked in Open for no reason at all. I wasn't attached to powerplay faction at the time, I wasn't in a hauler with expensive cargo - I was testing something in a new unarmed ship and minding my own business. Then nothing in chat, no warning, no hint of a reason I'm being attacked. That was unfun PvP.
The only reason I didn't complain about it was I'd forgotten I was in Open mode at the time and was distracted. So I blame myself for not swapping modes.

People who persistently push for Open Only this-and-that - despite their "logic" and reasoning acrobatics - are merely asking for more victims.

As simple as that.

For more weaker, clumsier, more helpless targets so they can hawhaw and dominate and force them to tell jokes and feel all manly and hairy chested when they kill a less experienced, trucking/research equipped player. Newcomers who went Open by default, to meet other people and exchange greetings and tips, routes, whatnot. Who will after several such idiocies go Solo or Group, and gankers will again come here to pretend some obscure trait of the game - interesting merely to double-digit gang - is sooo important that it needs all the players to be forced into Open.

Actually it is sad.

 

[SergMx]

Powerplay: Ryanair

I accept your assumption that throwing in lots of materials will give people no problem engineering ships.
And as you suggested it will give NPCs to fly engineering ships and be very sophisticated. Anyone who's fought the Thargods knows what I mean.
So when people in solo will be exterminated by NPCs (this is not Thargoids where we fly to kill them ourselves, it will be around every corner) people themselves will ask for help in the open game

P.S. Thus I simply suggest waiting for PP2 to come out and see.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I accept your assumption that throwing in lots of materials will give people no problem engineering ships.
And as you suggested it will give NPCs to fly engineering ships and be very sophisticated. Anyone who's fought the Thargods knows what I mean.
So when people in solo will be exterminated by NPCs (this is not Thargoids where we fly to kill them ourselves, it will be around every corner) people themselves will ask for help in the open game

P.S. Thus I simply suggest waiting for PP2 to come out and see.

This is what I meant by my other old PP proposal I linked- 'inverted' PvP where at a point banding together is required.

 

[Rubbernuke]

That’s kind of my point: in Elite Dangerous, at least in my experience, the “unfun PvP people” aren’t really around as much as other games I’ve played. Open is a way more fun place without them, and that’s to everyone’s benefit. If you have no idea what I’m talking about, then consider yourself blessed.

ED is really my first online game, and that Powerplay is my introduction to interacting with others directly.

 

[Rubbernuke]

The thread with how many side topics, tangents and off topic posts you mean?

As far as I'm aware, I've never deviated from Powerplay unless stated ('wider game' etc).

The social interactions and thrill of the unknown is the reward for Open Mode, if that isn't a big enough reward for you, then reevaluate why you use Open Mode.
And you're not "doing more". You're playing the game how you want to play it, with added interactions, meeting new people, not knowing how each play session will play out.

I can argue you're getting more out of the game than someone in Solo, so they should get an increased payout due to not getting all the thrills, spills and randomness you get.

Well, you are doing more. In solo I can easily min /max the biggest tub I can find and be completely safe as I know when, where and to what extent PP NPCs pop up. In Open, I have to pay attention to where I'm flying (do I cross rival powers, PMFs), I fit my ship accordingly, I fly very differently checking other commanders I see, if I'm engaged I have to either retreat, fight, or make a dash for the station- and once there I'm only safe when I've landed. I have to expend more time strategizing and flying which at the low level (the flying) is indeed a reward for Open, but is not rewarded at a strategic level since solo is better for efficiency.

If you really want mode parity then the last option is to separate out jobs for modes like this: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...ti-5c-mode-specific-plus-other-tweaks.552045/

In this way solo has a defined role, open has a defined role and don't overlap.

 

[Wily Rites]

Sigh, this really is a complicated topic, and the status-quo right now very bizzar.
I sincerely hope the power has some influence in making the game of new players from being quite so horrifically traumatic, my shifting the balance of the force or whatever it is.

I'm listening to my collector limpets bringing home the goodies, whilst writing this, I've never used them for materials before !

 

[Jockey79]

If you really want mode parity then the last option is to separate out jobs for modes like this: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...ti-5c-mode-specific-plus-other-tweaks.552045/

In this way solo has a defined role, open has a defined role and don't overlap.

I've only had a skim read of that, but the idea intrigues me.

The idea of different modes for different jobs could be the answer. As long as each mode remains just as relevant and important as the others then it could work.
Solo / PG is for the rear line support, logistics, moving reinforcements, and Open mode for the frontline push, defence, and moving supplies.
So, all modes would be important, and we would need to work as a team to keep the power going.

We will still need better NPCs, and FDev would have to keep an eye on it to balance it properly (no mode should be more important than another).

But that could work.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I've only had a skim read of that, but the idea intrigues me.

The idea of different modes for different jobs could be the answer. As long as each mode remains just as relevant and important as the others then it could work.
Solo / PG is for the rear line support, logistics, moving reinforcements, and Open mode for the frontline push, defence, and moving supplies.
So, all modes would be important, and we would need to work as a team to keep the power going.

We will still need better NPCs, and FDev would have to keep an eye on it to balance it properly (no mode should be more important than another).

But that could work.

Indeed- each mode relies on the other to keep the power solvent.

 

[Taimaru]

I like your idea of different jobs for different modes Rubbernuke.