You are mixing design architecture with intent. It's easiest to create an environment with all of the available options, and select restrictions, than it is to build a separate environment for each combination. Designing the programming that way doesn't imply that the initial environment is more important or desirable than any of the other options. It's just the way they chose to establish the modes.
Open PvE
- Thread starter SiriusSeven
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You are mixing design architecture with intent. It's easiest to create an environment with all of the available options, and select restrictions, than it is to build a separate environment for each combination. Designing the programming that way doesn't imply that the initial environment is more important or desirable than any of the other options. It's just the way they chose to establish the modes.
There's a link to Sandro's post on it earlier in this thread in the greifing section because this issue is pretty much down to perceived griefing. To some players being shot anywhere is fine aslong as they're not killed by a player using an exploit. To others (who want a pve mode) being shot anywhere except in a cz or when wanted is their idea of greifing.
I believe a pve mode with those restrictions is pretty much what fd did originally envision and what a lot of players bought the game for. Open would be like that if they finished the game mechanics to include the consequences for negative player actions and if they had prioritzed that the current system would be fine for the majority of pve players.
Since they're not in the game and not coming anytime soon (from what little we know about the current development) it's safe to say we need a pve mode for the players who aren't interested in getting jumped randomly every time they play.
Unfortunately their human admin team has enough to deal with due to combat logging.
A technical solution (weapons damage -> 0) would be preferable.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
.... or possibly a post-incident solution whereby the victim of the PvP incident were to be completely compensated for their loss and resume from their last FSD drop out point, cargo intact, as if nothing had happened....
An assumption based on a fact, there are ~ 41k forum members https://forums.frontier.co.uk/memberlist.php
Now the assumption, to find the Mobius group the odds are IMHO you are on this forum, 6200 / 41,000 = 15% of forum members are in Mobius, people who have a reasonable chance of reading about Mobius, & we have seen a few people here say they had never heard of Mobius before even though they have been here a while too.
I think that FD would either have to put things in place in a PVE mode to stop PVP, or do it the cheap & quick way, copy Mobius, add it as an option when you log in, & have a report PK option, the PVE player gets a refund, the PK gets removed from the group & everyone is happy, with hopefully not too much work.
Dave1235 gets it. Just give the Co-Op, what I like to call a PvE solution, a place at the table. Let the players see a choice and let the chips fall... For the longest time I thought the "Group" option was for players in a Group, like a Corp, or Guild idea. When I read about the Mobius group being open to membership, I jumped at the chance.
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Yup. Still a very technical solution, but I think that would be ok. Frankly, I'd probably be ok if it put you back a little further away (say 1 stop back). The main thing is that exploration data, cargo, combat bonds, and bounties are all preserved.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Of course - exploration data, combat bonds, bounty vouchers and even pirated booty should be reinstated, as could mission status (i.e. you didn't lose your ship).
The only problem with that is downtime for a legitimate player. If it happens on a Friday at 6pm gmt you could ruin a player's weekend if they're having to wait on a support ticket.
I still think weapons off is the best solution (if it's easy to do).
I agree with you that they have a lot to do, I did add the caveat "if it involved a lot of work then I would say, good idea, I would like to see it at some point in the future but it can wait a while."
Maybe a technical solution would be better, possibly involving more work.
It would be interesting to know how many people Mobius has had to remove from the group for not...... playing by the rules, that would be a good barometer for a PVE mode, Mobius worked because its what many people wanted, an approved PVE group would have FD governing it too.
I have no idea, but the Mobius thread has been rather active and upset the last few days....
That would work well, in Mobius they would get booted, in ED open PVE I think the honour system could work well, it would be reactive but they have access to all the logs. They should be able to spot interdictions & who fired first, who is in a Viper & who is in a type6 etc.
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That is a very good point, a roll back to before destruction would work much better regarding exploration data, cargo, combat bonds, and bounties.
And spawning 1 hop back gives you a chance to go around (assuming a near instant/automated system)
A good point but if (I hope) Mobius tells us it was a very small problem then I would hope it continue to be one, and not something that would be a big problem in a PVE mode in general.
I see where you are coming from with the weapons off, it would work but it is for me a "borg" solution not something that will fit well in ED.
I think if they do it, its better that they run it like Mobius, an honour system but with FD retribution, I hope "If it happens on a Friday at 6pm gmt you could ruin a player's weekend" would not happen too often, most people have a few * insurance, knowing I was getting my x CR & x combat bonds & x exploration data back on Monday or Tuesday would be an inconvenience that I would suffer on a rare occasion.
Space Trucker
Banned
was just pointed to this thread and I see i have some catching up to do but i support this completely. Again I have catching up to do so i apologize if this was covered but i take it it's too unrealistic to just have FDev make an option for private groups to turn off player VS player damage?
not that the suggestions being posted about a player rollback if they are PKed are bad. But as others have pointed out, it seems it would require more FDev involvement than simple turning off player vs player damage. (But I'm probably wrong here.
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not that the suggestions being posted about a player rollback if they are PKed are bad. But as others have pointed out, it seems it would require more FDev involvement than simple turning off player vs player damage. (But I'm probably wrong here.
)In PVE mode I don't see that as a major issue on the (hopefully rare occasion) that a they get attacked by a player.
I would prefer a "refund" system policed by FD rather than an "instant/automated system", if they open up a PVE mode.
Possibly (in pve mode only) fining the killer the whole price of the ship they destroyed, maybe that * 10 would reduce the admin needed by FD in the area of people PVPing in the PVE groups.
1. FD doesn't have the manpower to police an entire game mode. They don't have the manpower to police groups either.
2. What would that fine do, when you can't kill them without being fined yourself? And if you can be fined for attacking a player, then there are ways to trick players into getting fined.
I can see there's a lot of ideas being thrown out here, but I'm afraid none of you are really considering the technical aspects of those ideas. Nor financial. FD have priorities. For example, finishing the framework game they launched with would be one of them. Oh, they won't say it's a framework, but we can be honest about it. And there's all those expansions they're supposed to roll out. Dunno about you guys, but I'd like to have ship/station walking and planetary landings sooner than a PvE mode in a game with a shallow, grindy PvE and scant few social features.
If they don't add depth to this game first, PvE mode won't keep those PvE players playing. Have you been paying attention to ship counts in Open (oh, right, you don't play it...)? A few months ago #1 ship was the Cobra, and Anacondas were usually at zero. Now, I can see more and more of those. And they constitute end of progression - from there on, there is little point to PvE unless you just want to get to triple Elite or something.
So what happens when everybody is filthy rich and has nothing to spend their credits on? They get bored. And they leave. The only ones who can deal with that state of affairs are roleplayers, who invent their own reasons to play, and PvPers who are each other's content. PvE players? Not so much.
This game needs more stuff to do, more ships, more money sinks. All those things are of a higher priority than a PvE mode. Which makes this whole thread about two years premature.
Space Trucker
Banned
So you think it would be a serious technical undertaking to make an option for private groups that turns off player vs player damage. Doing that would elevate any need for moderation from FDev. Or any further interaction from FDevs servers. (such as player rollbacks)
You join mobius. You try to shoot another player and find that it does zero damage. I'm confused on why there needs to be anything beyond that or why it would be all that complicated.
Should this be discussed two years down the road? No it shouldn't. FDev needs to get this game squared away now and build on a strong foundation and not on something that current players aren't happy with. You think coming out with planetary landings and 1st person walkabouts is going to solve the dilemma a lot of players currently have? No it isn't and frankly you're just voicing this opinion because you don't want to see FDev spending time on an issue you consider trivial.
uberdude
Banned
Yup, I agree with this. Seems people have their own agendas to further and don't care who they inconvenience along the way. "I want planet landings and 1st person shooting and this and that!! nevermind the fact that the state of the game is in tatters. We want our new shinys!!"
Why don't we make the majority of the playerbase happy first and then worry about those shiny's.
This is an open sandbox game, I do not agree with the op at all on this. There are already two PVE modes (unless your in the big group that shoots at each other). The only time I have been shot at and blown up was in a private group. I have never had a problem in open space, but if I do, well that's the game
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