Well, we disagree. But thanks for chiming in (sincerely). Contrarian views a part of the discussion, and should be recorded here too -- and they keep us on our toes.
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Open PvE
- Thread starter SiriusSeven
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Well, we disagree. But thanks for chiming in (sincerely). Contrarian views a part of the discussion, and should be recorded here too -- and they keep us on our toes.
If its a dozen reports a day FD will be fine, part of the reason I suggested someone like Mobius quantify it.
The fine would be a penalty = to the ship destroyed in a PVE group, with the victim getting everything they lost restored.
I have paid for the DLC up front, I would rather they put in a PVE option first, I can wait for the DLC I bought nearly a year ago if it makes the game better for the majority.
I won't be "filthy rich, bored or leave" for a long while, nor do I think many will, I am too busy enjoying the game I bought & having fun.
Space Trucker
Banned
The "I've never had a problem so there must not be a problem." Approach. That's a classic right there.
Your contribution to this topic has been utterly invaluable.
As far as I am concerned a Co-Op mode doesn't have to be perfect out of the box. I'd happily accept a good first step at the risk of growing pains. I'd settle for just the option of a Co-Op option on the log in screen based on the honor system. The only penalty for attacking another player is banishment of that commander from Co-Op access. Refunding the offended party seems a decent thing to do. FD could distinguish it just like any other Private Group. To a layman it looks like all of the tools are there, they just need to be applied.
I've read the first couple of pages and thought I would give my opinion on an open PvE group.
obviously the numbers of the Mobius group show that there is a great number of players who have no interest in pvp what so ever and enjoy playing Elite the way its always been played, no amount of arguing from the PvP crowd will change their minds on that and everyone just ends up beating the same dead horse.
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my approach for an open PvE group would be to have players lock themselves into a PvE mode, the only way to get out of the mode is to fly to predefined stations to enable the mode switch to PvP.
all PvE players would appear as a green hollow square to everyone, while in PvE mode the player cannot be attacked, rammed or interdicted by another player, instancing will also try a group these players together aswell. this would be the only way to have the two groups in the same universe, but this will never happen as it only a solution to having pve players appear within the all group.
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I also hear on the grapevine(may just be rumors)that there is an EVE online community bringing up the PvP vs PvE discussions in an attempt to make it an issue for frontier to force everyone into the all group,thus turning Elite Dangerous into a subscription free EVE online style game, the main problem with Elite at the moment is that open is flawed and the arguments to say that private groups are ruining their game is deeply flawed, those discussion don't try and solve the problem but only try and make Elite a free for all with player groups trying to control areas of their space saying this area belongs to our group, trying to entice players into open with competitions and discussions around community goals only shows how flawed the open environment is in its current state.
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secure space, players changing faction would lose all influence with their previous faction as well as ranks, meaning that if you swapped from the empire to federation
while flying a clipper you wouldn't get insurance to by a new clipper, no biggy just sell it
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but response times would be reduced until the system stabilises or enters a brief period of anarchy for a short time then a new government is brought in, the system
would be re rated as secure starting with low and eventually returning back to its previous security state.
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basically players need to feel part of something bigger than themselves and uniting under a flag will focus players into something much larger than just random killing.
obviously the numbers of the Mobius group show that there is a great number of players who have no interest in pvp what so ever and enjoy playing Elite the way its always been played, no amount of arguing from the PvP crowd will change their minds on that and everyone just ends up beating the same dead horse.
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my approach for an open PvE group would be to have players lock themselves into a PvE mode, the only way to get out of the mode is to fly to predefined stations to enable the mode switch to PvP.
all PvE players would appear as a green hollow square to everyone, while in PvE mode the player cannot be attacked, rammed or interdicted by another player, instancing will also try a group these players together aswell. this would be the only way to have the two groups in the same universe, but this will never happen as it only a solution to having pve players appear within the all group.
.
I also hear on the grapevine(may just be rumors)that there is an EVE online community bringing up the PvP vs PvE discussions in an attempt to make it an issue for frontier to force everyone into the all group,thus turning Elite Dangerous into a subscription free EVE online style game, the main problem with Elite at the moment is that open is flawed and the arguments to say that private groups are ruining their game is deeply flawed, those discussion don't try and solve the problem but only try and make Elite a free for all with player groups trying to control areas of their space saying this area belongs to our group, trying to entice players into open with competitions and discussions around community goals only shows how flawed the open environment is in its current state.
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My Approach to bringing everyone together and playing in the all group
would require a hand full of things to be implemented.
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would require a hand full of things to be implemented.
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- like eve online secure space the NPC police need to be quick and deadly as a response force while in faction space,
- players must choose one of 4 factions Empire, Federation, Alliance, None, missions should be available for players to swap factions to prove their loyalty, being part of a faction and flying in that's faction space would have the benefits of having the NPC police respond quickly, if you are not part of that faction then response times are reduced. fellow players of the same faction will show up as green while other factions will show up as the normal orange. this I would hope bring a greater sense of belonging and identity,
secure space, players changing faction would lose all influence with their previous faction as well as ranks, meaning that if you swapped from the empire to federation
while flying a clipper you wouldn't get insurance to by a new clipper, no biggy just sell it
.
- players that have a wanted status from killing another player from another faction wont show up as being wanted to their own faction unless a scan is made. bounty hunters will need to purchase a licence to kill wanted players to protect them from their faction NPC police, and obviously would also need to contact the pilots federation to claim their bounty's. it would probably be simpler to have the one licence to kill that covers all factions against the police force.
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- faction space would need to show security ratings, showing high medium low and anarchy.
but response times would be reduced until the system stabilises or enters a brief period of anarchy for a short time then a new government is brought in, the system
would be re rated as secure starting with low and eventually returning back to its previous security state.
.
- players who choose a faction can pirate in the opposing faction space or anarchy space, if they pirate there own faction they will begin to lose great amounts of influence and will eventually be aligned to no one. players killing a fellow faction player will receive a murder bounty and then be aligned to the none faction forcing the player into low security space.
- to appease the pirates Anarchy space stations would need to entice players to journey in there, unique missions with great reward to venture into high security space, unique trade items that sell well in faction black markets, something that makes it worthwhile to venture into anarchy space.
- low security space and anarchy space should obviously sit on the boarders of faction space, and unique faction trade goods should bring high profits in the opposing faction systems, this will entice traders looking for a high profit to venture between faction space. traders not wanting to risk losing cargo would remain in the inner systems under the protection of their faction.
- the founders system would need to be relocated to a central position between all 3 major factions to allow access to all players.
basically players need to feel part of something bigger than themselves and uniting under a flag will focus players into something much larger than just random killing.
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@Mobius
Thanks so much for chiming in!
Thanks so much for chiming in!
Yes. This is very true -- though I get the impression that the game was designed to instill a sense of lone gunman, privateer. Unless we fly a Clipper, we can't even fly under a faction's flag. I hope 1.3 gives us some improvement in this area.
Frontier have already created some faction lore with its books and created pin badges for the various factions, they have implemented galnet news to give the various factions a sense of something bigger going on, but the player base has no affiliation with any of the factions, sure you can get reputation with a faction but its pretty empty and pointless.
the my approach would be to give every player a reason to attack players and at the same time protect players. if your looking for some PvP then head to the boarder systems, if you are looking for a more PvE style game remain in the core systems. having pirates play within the low security and anarchy border systems ensures that traders wanting risk and profit style game play get that risk vs profit. the need for bounty hunters to get a licence to kill wanted players within their own faction helps protect players, my last post is just an idea for PvE and PvP gameplay to coexist in the same galaxy.
in my eyes that's the only way to bring everyone together.
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I get ya. You still want to pull everyone together. That's commendable. I just worry that such a complicated solution will delay any changes, by putting it in the "Big Job" pile, but I respect your point of view. I, on the other hand just want all of the teeth gnashing to abate and wish for even the quick fix to create a sanctioned Co-Op mode. Let's hope for the best.
faction affiliation has been requested before in numerous threads. Nothing has come of it. Player created factions have been suggested, shot down because it seems FD wants players to not organize into groups that are recognized in-game.
That's nothing new. There are literally dozens of threads requesting it.
If FD would make faction standings more important and affected by killing clean (allied ...this is important) players then you would end wanton killing in open. You really dont need to do anything else, as long as building standing is a long and hard process, it wont be worth their time to lose standing. It would make being a pirate (a true pirate) something to be kind of proud of because it would be the hardest existence in the game. Few and far between systems would have a station you can land on, let alone equip anything good at. NPCS would be openly hostile to you in all systems controlled by factions you are now hostile in. Plus, even if you are clean, your standing stays with you across deaths.
This too has been suggested numerous times. Nothing has come of it. there are tons and ton of threads suggesting pretty much the same thing that credits and bounties aren't a deterrent that can realistically exist to stop destroying an innocent player nor a means of allowing non-innocent players from looking innocent. So no, this is not a new idea and whatever the devs are going to do when it comes to the direction of the game at the "big picture" level in regards to bounties etc, is already being handled. As hinted by upcoming player bounty changes.
pve and pvp already co-exist in open and they're obviously the same galaxy. The galaxy is big, if players are annoying you, go else where. If you want to do something where other players are, you have to accept everything that entails or dont go there. That's what open is about and that's what makes open a different game than the safe easy mode of not playing in open. Even if factional standing is reworked to make who you kill actually matter in the game, it is by no means a guarantee of safety. It seems like what players who go in solo or mobius really want is to play a game they can learn the rules and just exploit them to their maximum benefit. Open will never totally allow that, players can choose to break the rules and since that's a perfectly valid profession, and they can exist (albeit more difficultly) doing just that all the time. Those players rushing away from open rather than just moving away from players probably would never re-join open because of that risk. And the players in Open i doubt care that they're missing them.
That's nothing new. There are literally dozens of threads requesting it.
If FD would make faction standings more important and affected by killing clean (allied ...this is important) players then you would end wanton killing in open. You really dont need to do anything else, as long as building standing is a long and hard process, it wont be worth their time to lose standing. It would make being a pirate (a true pirate) something to be kind of proud of because it would be the hardest existence in the game. Few and far between systems would have a station you can land on, let alone equip anything good at. NPCS would be openly hostile to you in all systems controlled by factions you are now hostile in. Plus, even if you are clean, your standing stays with you across deaths.
This too has been suggested numerous times. Nothing has come of it. there are tons and ton of threads suggesting pretty much the same thing that credits and bounties aren't a deterrent that can realistically exist to stop destroying an innocent player nor a means of allowing non-innocent players from looking innocent. So no, this is not a new idea and whatever the devs are going to do when it comes to the direction of the game at the "big picture" level in regards to bounties etc, is already being handled. As hinted by upcoming player bounty changes.
pve and pvp already co-exist in open and they're obviously the same galaxy. The galaxy is big, if players are annoying you, go else where. If you want to do something where other players are, you have to accept everything that entails or dont go there. That's what open is about and that's what makes open a different game than the safe easy mode of not playing in open. Even if factional standing is reworked to make who you kill actually matter in the game, it is by no means a guarantee of safety. It seems like what players who go in solo or mobius really want is to play a game they can learn the rules and just exploit them to their maximum benefit. Open will never totally allow that, players can choose to break the rules and since that's a perfectly valid profession, and they can exist (albeit more difficultly) doing just that all the time. Those players rushing away from open rather than just moving away from players probably would never re-join open because of that risk. And the players in Open i doubt care that they're missing them.
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There are at least as many threads where pirates complain that the traders have all gone off Open as there are threads requesting faction affiliations (and indeed, probably many more). There is something fundamentally backwards about the present Open implementation. The Newbie zone (LHS 3447 and Eravate), as well as the core HIGH SECURITY systems (Lave, Leesti, Diso) are in fact the most dangerous places to be. Sure you can move away from people and be safe but then you've moved away from people. The chief benefit of the Open PvE mode I propose is that it brings people together rather than having people run from one another.
I have no interest in Solo. It's boring as hell. Likewise, I have no interest in Open if I have to isolate myself in order to make progress. I think Open PvE is a unique and welcome mode where I can seek people out for reasons other than senseless murder.
As I said earlier, I think the reason the game didn't launch with PvE is because, before 1.2, the only meaningful player interactions were PvP -- you couldn't group, and you could almost never chat, so you did the only thing left and deploy hard points. The game funnelled you into that only option. It's like those crappy conversation mechanics that exist in some games where every path through the dialog tree leads to a fight. That's changed now with Wings. Our expectations are higher. We can meaningfully co-operate in the same instance (and not just via the bg sim). It's time to make Open PvE a thing.
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I'm pretty much right there with you. I can say definitively that if I'm ever forced into an all play, I will simply abandon the game completely. I'm not doing EvE 2.0. As a matter of fact PVE is the only reason I'm here at all. I actually refreshed the downloads on all my other games just in case, LOL. But I'm just one guy, and really nothing special in the least.
Meh, i see nothing wrong with the current model of open if the factions are leveraged correctly so that it offers significant repercussions. Anyone else looking for an essentially single player game can go elsewhere.
I have trouble reconciling that with my previous post, which practically begs for anything other than single player. I fear you are attacking a straw man.
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The 'elsewhere' is exactly what we are asking for. FD only need to sanction one Co-Op mode, made exactly like a private group is now, and list it with the other choices. Give people the choice and I'll be satisfied. We can deal with the minutia as we go.
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Yes, I do think it would be a serious undertaking. It is my take that pretty much everyone who is throwing ideas out here is not a developer nor has coded in a professional (read: complex) environment. Or else none of you would be saying things like "oh, it's simple to do". It's never simple to do.
Coding in a complex environment is something close to this:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2gp98t_hal-fixing-a-light-bulb_fun
So whenever you're asking for something to be added, just remember the video above. Sometimes even adding an extra UI button can become a whole day job.
Read up through the entire thread, I've covered at least five reasons why it would become quite complicated. You're not taking the time to think this through, that's why it seems simple to you.
You assume that the lack of a dedicated PvE group is a major problem for most players. Looking at the cross-section of topics on the forums, I'd say the major problems are lack of gameplay content and problems with the way current gameplay systems are implemented, as that is what "most" players are talking about.
This is not a problem. This is a case of PvE players wanting a game mode the game was not designed for in the first place, with major features coded in (as per suggestions of Mobius and others talking about stuff like no player-player damage, no collisions etc.)
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![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
I too worry about Mobius moving on or just simply getting tired.
Also, as has been made very clear recently, there is nothing really that can be done to police private groups, other than if you have evidence get a person kicked. An official mode however could have built in penalties giving very high punishments for forced PvP such as huge fines followed by being kicked from the pilots federation or the group permenantly. (ideally fines 1st incase of accidents)
but........
personally even if there was a PvE group I would still think friendly fire should be possible. take it out of the equation and it completley ruins co-op play imo, as part of the fun/tactical element of that is policing your weapon.
even if this did not happen however Maybe going forward the private groups will be fleshed out more with more options.
maybe whoever creates the group will have a series of checkboxes to decide on the rules, and anyone joining the group has to tick a box to agree to those conditions, and if they break them they then get treated the same as if breaking rules in the All group. The software can then do the legwork that mobius currently does.
ie I could set up my group
PvP y/n
Friendly Fire y/n
PvP in Warzones and competitive missions y/n
allow single ship destruction with 10x fine added y/n?
if yes to above, flag player for (set period of time) so other players are warned that they are on yellow card.
if yes to above, how many ships killed before account permban from group (number here)
allow cooling off period for "accidentally" destroyed friendles after good behaviour? y/n
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