Open PvE

[Meritz]

I think, rather than tacking on yet another mode which would probably have the opposite effect of the intended one, FD should focus on making the crime & punishment more robust and reliable. So PvE players can feel relatively secure in civilized space, where they can, if nothing else, count on having a quick backup of 3-4 capable (not current NPC pushovers) NPC police Vipers blasting away at the pirate. Give players the ability to hire NPC escorts, and casual pirating becomes even more difficult. Make it more expensive in lower security systems, of course.

No need to artificially divide the playerbase when you can give players the means to make themselves more secure in Open.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

It's trivially easy to avoid this griefing mechanism - log out and back in again - your ship will appear outside the station.

Also, the station frowns upon ships blocking the docking port.

Which is why you alternate, the timer is reset each time.

And if you're going to be logging in and out (many players are not aware that this places you outside of the station), might as well just go solo/private group and avoid the hassle. I thought the point of PvE Open would be to avoid griefing? I'm telling you it would be a griefer magnet.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I think, rather than tacking on yet another mode which would probably have the opposite effect of the intended one, FD should focus on making the crime & punishment more robust and reliable. So PvE players can feel relatively secure in civilized space, where they can, if nothing else, count on having a quick backup of 3-4 capable (not current NPC pushovers) NPC police Vipers blasting away at the pirate. Give players the ability to hire NPC escorts, and casual pirating becomes even more difficult. Make it more expensive in lower security systems, of course.

No need to artificially divide the playerbase when you can give players the means to make themselves more secure in Open.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



Which is why you alternate, the timer is reset each time.

And if you're going to be logging in and out (many players are not aware that this places you outside of the station), might as well just go solo/private group and avoid the hassle. I thought the point of PvE Open would be to avoid griefing? I'm telling you it would be a griefer magnet.

I would agree that Frontier need to focus on crime and punishment regardless of whether they consider adding an Open-PvE mode. That's not a reason not to consider adding Open-PvE though. The player-base is pretty divided already - Open-PvE would just give PvE players equality of choice when it comes to being able to play the game in an open mode that would be suited to their particular play-style.

Maybe the loitering timer needs to be significantly reduced for players who occasionally cause the loitering countdown to start.

.... and logging out then back in to avoid griefers is no big deal - I doubt that the occasional requirement to do so would discourage players from playing in Open-PvE.

 

[Meritz]

I would agree that Frontier need to focus on crime and punishment regardless of whether they consider adding an Open-PvE mode. That's not a reason not to consider adding Open-PvE though. The player-base is pretty divided already - Open-PvE would just give PvE players equality of choice when it comes to being able to play the game in an open mode that would be suited to their particular play-style.

They already have it. Solo/Group/Open. And it works pretty well, aside from the lack of admin features for group management and the imbalances between modes in certain aspects of the game. So PvE Open would be redundant. Tacking on another mode requires development time better spent on other things.

Maybe the loitering timer needs to be significantly reduced for players who occasionally cause the loitering countdown to start.

You want players like me who fly responsibly blown out of the sky!? I already get a warning from time to time because I don't drive my freighter like a maniac.

 

[Robert Maynard]

They already have it. Solo/Group/Open. And it works pretty well, aside from the lack of admin features for group management and the imbalances between modes in certain aspects of the game. So PvE Open would be redundant. Tacking on another mode requires development time better spent on other things.

You want players like me who fly responsibly blown out of the sky!? I already get a warning from time to time because I don't drive my freighter like a maniac.

I disagree - private groups require to be managed, open does not. If there were to be an Open-PvE mode then all players would have immediate access to it should they wish to play in it - and wouldn't need to read about a popular PvE private group on the forums, apply for membership then wait to be accepted. Adding Open-PvE would be really quite simple - it's just like open with a few rules, consequences and punishments added.

Not like a maniac, no - but it's easy enough to transit the docking port relatively quickly, even in an Anaconda or Type-9.

 

[Meritz]

I disagree - private groups require to be managed, open does not. If there were to be an Open-PvE mode then all players would have immediate access to it should they wish to play in it - and wouldn't need to read about a popular PvE private group on the forums, apply for membership then wait to be accepted. Adding Open-PvE would be really quite simple - it's just like open with a few rules, consequences and punishments added.

As a programmer, I just love it when people say something would be "quite simple". O'rly? Well, no, it's never "quite simple" and it takes a lot of time, testing, bugging, debugging, rebugging, redebugging and pulling your follicles of choice out.

Not like a maniac, no - but it's easy enough to transit the docking port relatively quickly, even in an Anaconda or Type-9.

Tell that to the noob you splattered all over the egress port because you were going "relatively quickly". <50m/s for large ships sir, or that's a traffic ticket for you.

 

[Robert Maynard]

As a programmer, I just love it when people say something would be "quite simple". O'rly? Well, no, it's never "quite simple" and it takes a lot of time, testing, bugging, debugging, rebugging, redebugging and pulling your follicles of choice out.



Tell that to the noob you splattered all over the egress port because you were going "relatively quickly". <50m/s for large ships sir, or that's a traffic ticket for you.

Given the way that the game already allows (apparently unlimited numbers of) private groups to be created and played in at will and the fact that the three game modes are simply different settings of the same matchmaking system, no, I don't think that it would be particularly difficult for Frontier to create Open-PvE. They have already spoken of allowing private groups to have rules so probably have an idea (or more) as to how to implement that.

I get what you're saying about large ships - inertia's a challenge....

 

[SHADEVARI]

These should be the options:

Open PvP
Open PvE (with PvP allowed in conflict zones)
Private Group
Solo


...or how about a mode with a selective PvP flag. If CMDR initiates a hostile action (interdiction, KW/cargo scanned, weapons damage, limpets, ...) against any other CMDR you get PvP flagged for 48 hours. If, for whatever reason, you get a bounty on your head and are WANTED, you also get the PvP flag. Plus the option to set your PvP status to ON, either permanently or for 48 hours somewhere in the ships options.

 

[Meritz]

Given the way that the game already allows (apparently unlimited numbers of) private groups to be created and played in at will and the fact that the three game modes are simply different settings of the same matchmaking system, no, I don't think that it would be particularly difficult for Frontier to create Open-PvE. They have already spoken of allowing private groups to have rules so probably have an idea (or more) as to how to implement that.

Well, good luck to them. They'll be literally the first ones to enable player collisions in PvE AND prevent griefers from having fun with it. But hey. If all griefers go to what will most certainly be known as "carebear land" to test their creative chops, we in Open will have fewer to deal with.

Oh and, same problems that apply to solo/Open apply to PvE Open and PvP Open, of course...

 

[Mohrgan]

Well, good luck to them. They'll be literally the first ones to enable player collisions in PvE AND prevent griefers from having fun with it. But hey. If all griefers go to what will most certainly be known as "carebear land" to test their creative chops, we in Open will have fewer to deal with.

Oh and, same problems that apply to solo/Open apply to PvE Open and PvP Open, of course...

Once a player demonstrates such behavior, they will get banned to the desert PvP-Open will be. Problem solved. Get your grief on, because you'll only get a short time before you're sent packing.

 

[Mohrgan]

FD wouldn't have to do a thing beside sanctioning a PvP-Open option on the load in screen. PvP will be possible, but the perpetrators will be banished to PvP-Open. To get back in, before your ban is over, would require a save wipe and a new Commander name. There you are Risk & Reward for everyone. Each budding PvP Pro can make their bones, then go to purgatory. I think the victims might just get some satisfaction from helping sort the wheat from the chaff, but that may be a stretch.

 

[SiriusSeven]

These should be the options:

Open PvP
Open PvE (with PvP allowed in conflict zones)
Private Group
Solo


...or how about a mode with a selective PvP flag. If CMDR initiates a hostile action (interdiction, KW/cargo scanned, weapons damage, limpets, ...) against any other CMDR you get PvP flagged for 48 hours. If, for whatever reason, you get a bounty on your head and are WANTED, you also get the PvP flag. Plus the option to set your PvP status to ON, either permanently or for 48 hours somewhere in the ships options.

you don't need solo. Just don't invite anyone to your private group

That is....if 3 modes is the magic number.

 

[Meritz]

Once a player demonstrates such behavior, they will get banned to the desert PvP-Open will be. Problem solved. Get your grief on, because you'll only get a short time before you're sent packing.

You know, I cannot recall ever seeing people as passively aggressive as PvE players get to be. It cannot be healthy.

But seriously guys, it would be financially bad for FD to further dilute their playerbase. You got solo, you got groups, don't hope for anything more. They have a sandbox game to sell, not a heavily regulated themepark.

 

[Mohrgan]

How about a lightly regulated sandbox? The only restriction would be no attacking Commanders everything else is good. As to dilution, there would be no more because the Solo-Group guys have already left Open, and Open would be there if you changed your mind, or wanted a dust up. There is no real reason to say no, besides not giving the PvP crowd some easy targets.

P.S. I am not passive aggressive, I am actively debunking the idea that Open is the preferred mode.

 

[Meritz]

How about a lightly regulated sandbox? The only restriction would be no attacking Commanders everything else is good. As to dilution, there would be no more because the Solo-Group guys have already left Open, and Open would be there if you changed your mind, or wanted a dust up. There is no real reason to say no, besides not giving the PvP crowd some easy targets.

Oh, just no PvP? Yeah, that sounds like "light regulation". Haha, not even SC will have that kind of mess for PvP/PvE.

So basically you want to turn Open play into a sort of crazy fight-club? Yeah, no thanks. I'm an Open trader most of the time and I'd like any PvErs who are looking for "dust ups" to dust it up with their NPC pals.

P.S. I am not passive aggressive, I am actively debunking the idea that Open is the preferred mode.

Not sure with what exactly. If it wasn't the preferred mode, you wouldn't be asking for a PvE variant.

Hey while we're at it, can we get a RP Open mode too? How about a RP/PvE Open mode as well?

 

[Mohrgan]

Oh, just no PvP? Yeah, that sounds like "light regulation". Haha, not even SC will have that kind of mess for PvP/PvE.

So basically you want to turn Open play into a sort of crazy fight-club? Yeah, no thanks. I'm an Open trader most of the time and I'd like any PvErs who are looking for "dust ups" to dust it up with their NPC pals.



Not sure with what exactly. If it wasn't the preferred mode, you wouldn't be asking for a PvE variant.

Hey while we're at it, can we get a RP Open mode too? How about a RP/PvE Open mode as well?

I think you are wrong on all counts. No PvP would be one single restriction. Open could be anything it wanted to be. Labels won;t change the facts of what it is, or would be. You're just deflecting the point to absurdity.
.
We are asking for a PvE variant to help bring the PvE players together, that's all. Instead of all the Group players spread out by default, why not offer an option, at the log in screen, for a PvE only environment? They don't, under my suggestion, even have to change anything to the architecture, just add a PvE only option to give the Co-Op type players a place to find each other. Any players breaking the PvE/PvP barrier would be denied access to PvE-Open. Pretty easy, low cost, addition, that would go a long way to squelching the on going animosity.

 

[Meritz]

I think you are wrong on all counts. No PvP would be one single restriction. Open could be anything it wanted to be. Labels won;t change the facts of what it is, or would be. You're just deflecting the point to absurdity.
.
We are asking for a PvE variant to help bring the PvE players together, that's all. Instead of all the Group players spread out by default, why not offer an option, at the log in screen, for a PvE only environment? They don't, under my suggestion, even have to change anything to the architecture, just add a PvE only option to give the Co-Op type players a place to find each other. Any players breaking the PvE/PvP barrier would be denied access to PvE-Open. Pretty easy, low cost, addition, that would go a long way to squelching the on going animosity.

Already covered the problems with that. Who would be the judge and jury on who belongs to PvP and who to PvE? How would you deal with false claims? How would you deal with mob mentality? Etc. FD would not be dealing with that, you can bet on it. They can barely deal with the current ticket queue, without having to play judge and arbiter on all the ruffled feathers cases that would spring up.

And no, you can't code it in. As I said, you cannot determine player intent via code. And if you can't code it in, you leave PvE vulnerable to a whole range of abuses that players would have no ways to deal with. Not to mention you already have a sense of resentment building up in the Open community (meaning players who play exclusively in Open) because a lot of players pimp out their ships in solo/group and only come to Open to kill people.

It would only make existing issues with the overall community worse. It's a very bad idea.

And you know, these sort of modes only work if you segregate them per character. Like PvP and PvE servers in other games. But allow people to switch at will and... well. You get an even bigger problem than you have now. A highly polarized community, where half the playerbase can't stand the other half and both have all the tools at their disposal to grief and annoy the hell out of each other.

 

[Mohrgan]

It's pure and simple. If the logs, which they have already (see the Race to Elite contest results), show you've attacked another player, banished. No muss, no fuss.
.
The modes are available at will. No reason to complicate matters with more clutter. Take your Commander into any mode, as you see fit, just like now, only play buy the rule set for what mode you've chosen. Simple, pain free.
.
The Community is already polarized. A PvE-Open would allow the PvE crowd to coalesce, if that's what a player wants. How could a player in PvE-Open possibly grief anyone in PvP-Open? That is hardly an issue.
.

 

[Meritz]

It's pure and simple. If the logs, which they have already (see the Race to Elite contest results), show you've attacked another player, banished. No muss, no fuss.

And what if you park yourself in front of a player as they're shooting at an NPC? They attacked you - BAM, banned to Open.
What about ramming? Who rammed who? Oh, you sanction the player who survived? What if griefers suicide in cheap sidewinders against an unsuspecting player? BAM, banned to Open.

You didn't think this through.

The Community is already polarized. A PvE-Open would allow the PvE crowd to coalesce, if that's what a player wants.

Look up what polarized means. Here, I looked it up for you:

"Divide or cause to divide into two sharply contrasting groups or sets of opinions or beliefs."

Coalescing the playerbase into two opposing, antagonistic camps is the very definition of it. And the community is far from polarized now. See, most players play Open. A tiny minority of PvE players is unhappy with the options they have already.

 

[Globusdiablo]

.....See, most players play Open.....

How do you know this?

 

[Mohrgan]

To have attacked another player, you would have to Target that player. Just like the FF mechanic we have now. It's FF, unless you target the player. Next. Ramming is an issue throughout the entire game, and I don;t see it as something to scuttle a good idea over. The debate over ramming is ongoing and let's see what comes of that.
.
And what we have now is a diaspora (I'm going to assume you know what that means because I don;t care to insult anyone), all of the players scattered by their individual interests. There is no difference to the split, if you offer a permanent PvE-Open option, it would only foster a larger PvE community in one place/mode. The current state caused the split, what makes you think forcing players into one or the other would solve the schism? Do you really think that causing the players to have to reside in Open, would solve any problems?
.
P.S. In the case of a PvE-Open mode, COmbat Logging would cease to be a problem. It would be a good way for PvE players to avoid the costs of some PvP-Pro making their bones. Look, two birds with one stone.....