Open PvE

[Robert Maynard]

All those people playing in the Mobius group are players I will never see and because the developer content is so easy they'll never need my help.. They won't be making a distress call, or asking for a Wing escort through a dangerous area. And with that so many interesting game situations are lost, and not just for me but those who are hiding away.

I have a few people on my friends list who are ALWAYS in private group and so I can never pop by and say hi.. Before the recent update I wondered if the game just wasnt matching me when I turned up at their location, but no, they were playing in their own little bubble. Its a big galaxy out there and so I really find it hard to understand why people even feel the need to hide in a private bubble, because once you leave particular areas seeing a player is a rare thing and in my experience out off the beaten track players are really friendly or simply going about their business.

/shrug

The players in Mobius' group can call for help - they can call out to one another. As the group is co-operative, they can be sure that anyone who turns up *is* there to help - the same cannot be said for Open.

As to not understanding why people feel the need to play in private groups - you could ask your friends, I'm sure they could explain why.

 

[Mobius]

would love to hear some sort of official acknowledgement from frontier that the all group needs a overhaul to ensure that all play styles are included, and that they admit that the all group is just a sandbox without proper content, community goals and competitions are not content, the galaxy needs to feel alive with factions,
.
Elite isn't the same game I backed 2 years ago.

what was sold to me

.

what the reality is

 

[Psychosis 808]

The players in Mobius' group can call for help - they can call out to one another. As the group is co-operative, they can be sure that anyone who turns up *is* there to help - the same cannot be said for Open.

As to not understanding why people feel the need to play in private groups - you could ask your friends, I'm sure they could explain why.

Thing is why would the players in a PvE group ever need to call for help? It's not like the NPC's are hard enough to ever need backup to take them down.

And onto the next post you say take a ship and 100 credits and bounty hunt, pirate and assasinate your way accross the galaxy then make a group where you can only do that against NPC's that are laughably easy and present zero challenge.

I think a sandbox game needs all types of players and splitting a server into 2 seperate groups will kill it completely, there's a reason why EvE has kept growing for the last decade, because it caters to all and not just 1 group over another and doesn't attempt to split people up. And why in most MMO games you see the highest population servers are PvP servers.
As constant PvP without any respite gets boring and vice versa with constant PvE

I've always found the most cooperative people are the one's that are willing to have a go at all types of play styles and not limit themselves to 1 or another, again EvE gets a bad rep sometimes but I have met some of the friendliest and most helpfull people out of any online game i've ever played there.

The system in Elite needs some work to stop mindless ganking but I believe the intention of Frontier was to have all types in the same world both working together and opposing each other, where traders need help from mercs to trade in safety and bounty hunters have a job of taking out high profile pirates who terrorize the space lanes.

that to me is how you create a living, breathing atmospheric game world.

 

[Mobius]

And onto the next post you say take a ship and 100 credits and bounty hunt, pirate and assasinate your way accross the galaxy then make a group where you can only do that against NPC's that are laughably easy and present zero challenge.

totally right the NPC are not a challenge but thats not the real reason we are the biggest group in the elite game. the reason we have come together is that none of us have any interest in spoiling someone else's game.

I think a sandbox game needs all types of players and splitting a server into 2 seperate groups will kill it completely, there's a reason why EvE has kept growing for the last decade, because it caters to all and not just 1 group over another and doesn't attempt to split people up. And why in most MMO games you see the highest population servers are PvP servers.
As constant PvP without any respite gets boring and vice versa with constant PvE

I totally agree, Eve got the pve and pvp aspect of there game dead on, players who don't want to pvp remain in secure space and pirates and player killers are pushed out into low security space where greater profits can be made. and if traders want a profit vs risk type game they know where to go for it.

I've always found the most cooperative people are the one's that are willing to have a go at all types of play styles and not limit themselves to 1 or another, again EvE gets a bad rep sometimes but I have met some of the friendliest and most helpful people out of any online game i've ever played there.

many players on my friends list only play in the all group, of course the all group is full of decent players, unfortunately it would appear that we have players trying to bring a Eve type game to elite and trying to control areas of NPC space, I say let pirates fight for dominance in anarchy space and leave faction space alone.

The system in Elite needs some work to stop mindless ganking but I believe the intention of Frontier was to have all types in the same world both working together and opposing each other, where traders need help from mercs to trade in safety and bounty hunters have a job of taking out high profile pirates who terrorize the space lanes.

that to me is how you create a living, breathing atmospheric game world.

that would work except the way the current state of the galaxy is, is very much that every system is in anarchy, players are to spread out for protection from real players and this is where the environment comes into play, npc police should be quick to respond with deadly effect.

 

[Meritz]

No, Thats not possible, because everybody is already driven off by the lacking mode.

("everybody" used in the same generalising way you do here)

You may be apt in game design. Are you apt in predicting any player base percentage? I.E: it seems you believe "the few" PvE players are not the majority of the gamers here
and no loss to the rest of the community. Maybe you are right, but i and many others think its the other way around. The more "cooperative" players are driven into solo
and eventually bored off the more the game detoirates into something resembling Unreal Tournament in Space.
And that would be sad because Elite Dangerous has so much potential.

Just my opinion.

I never said PvE players are a minority. I believe PvE players which adamantly refuse to have any possibility, no matter how remote, of a hostile player encounter are a minority. But that sort of, frankly, dogmatic outlook on the game probably has little to do with the game itself, in whatever shape and form.

I truly believe that most PvE players want a sense of logic and coherency from the game world, where they can reliably tell which areas and activities can be considered dangerous and which areas and activities are safe - both from a PvP and PvE standpoint. And if given that, yes, I do think the overwhelming majority of players would gladly play in Open.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

would love to hear some sort of official acknowledgement from frontier that the all group needs a overhaul to ensure that all play styles are included, and that they admit that the all group is just a sandbox without proper content, community goals and competitions are not content, the galaxy needs to feel alive with factions,
.
Elite isn't the same game I backed 2 years ago.

You won't get that statement from them, but it is quite obvious they are aware of the fact that they launched with a half-finished product. Personally I look at it this way: what we have now is EDs version of Arena Commander + Hangar, except we don't have to pay a gazillion RL dollars for every ship.

I expect the game to be in an intended finished state somewhere around the end of this year. Which is why it's important they stick to their priorities!

 

[Psychosis 808]

totally right the NPC are not a challenge but thats not the real reason we are the biggest group in the elite game. the reason we have come together is that none of us have any interest in spoiling someone else's game.


I totally agree, Eve got the pve and pvp aspect of there game dead on, players who don't want to pvp remain in secure space and pirates and player killers are pushed out into low security space where greater profits can be made. and if traders want a profit vs risk type game they know where to go for it.



many players on my friends list only play in the all group, of course the all group is full of decent players, unfortunately it would appear that we have players trying to bring a Eve type game to elite and trying to control areas of NPC space, I say let pirates fight for dominance in anarchy space and leave faction space alone.



that would work except the way the current state of the galaxy is, is very much that every system is in anarchy, players are to spread out for protection from real players and this is where the environment comes into play, npc police should be quick to respond with deadly effect.

Yeah know what you mean, like I said the system definitely needs work as as it currently stands it's too easy to get in kill someone and get out with minimal consequences.

I think if you really are hell bent on getting someone in faction space it should be possible but there should be more risk and more planning required to actually pull it off than the current system of spot someone in SC and go for an interdiction no matter what they are carrying, there needs to be some kind risk vs reward factor and the sort of thing only happens if a, it is profitable or b, you've got a debt to settle.

As stated EvE has got it right now but anyone who played when it 1st came out will remember mOo tearing up systems all over the place and killing at will until CCP sorted out the police and security system.

 

[Defacto]

I never said PvE players are a minority. I believe PvE players which adamantly refuse to have any possibility, no matter how remote, of a hostile player encounter are a minority. But that sort of, frankly, dogmatic outlook on the game probably has little to do with the game itself, in whatever shape and form.

I truly believe that most PvE players want a sense of logic and coherency from the game world, where they can reliably tell which areas and activities can be considered dangerous and which areas and activities are safe - both from a PvP and PvE standpoint. And if given that, yes, I do think the overwhelming majority of players would gladly play in Open.

I agree with you here: I think that the majority of players gladly would play in Open.
I don't think most Mobius players play in that group because they principally disagree with the idea of PvP encounters, even unfair ones, as being part of the game.
I think most Mobious players play there, not because they don't want hostile player interaction, but because of what hostile player interactions in open are like (or because of what they percieve them to be).

As it is now, player piracy is the #2 threat to all traders. The greatest threat: Player murderers who are just gathering scalps for no real reason.
NPC piracy is a practically nonexistant threat. Some rare Anaconda or Asp pirates might be slightly dangerous, but that is all.
At the same time, NPC security is completely pathetic. Has anyone being pirated by players ever had any help from security forces? Even when they do arrive (if they ever do), they are extremely weak and will probably get wiped out or simply ignored by a pirate player.

The bounty system is easy to exploit or bypass. The addition of timers, which will come soon, might help a bit, but I don't think they solve the main problem: Murder, Piracy, acts of terrorism - are trivial things that are easily forgotten.
At the same time, piracy really doesn't pay well, so the ones actually doing piracy are always the ones that are there for the ''fun'', not to actually earn credits.

I think that as these issues (hopefully) get solved, a lot of people, espcially traders, might migrate back into open.

 

[Mobius]

You won't get that statement from them, but it is quite obvious they are aware of the fact that they launched with a half-finished product. Personally I look at it this way: what we have now is EDs version of Arena Commander + Hangar, except we don't have to pay a gazillion RL dollars for every ship.

I expect the game to be in an intended finished state somewhere around the end of this year. Which is why it's important they stick to their priorities!

agreed, Frontier would never admit that something is wrong, that's just business. and agreed what we have is Arena commander, Im guessing that we may see vanity ships in the future that have the exact same specs as current ships to avoid the pay to win scenario. but im going off topic there.
.
it would appear that we are all beginning to understand each other and realise what is wrong with the game for two groups to separate the way they have.

 

[Cosmos]

Thing is why would the players in a PvE group ever need to call for help? It's not like the NPC's are hard enough to ever need backup to take them down.

And onto the next post you say take a ship and 100 credits and bounty hunt, pirate and assasinate your way accross the galaxy then make a group where you can only do that against NPC's that are laughably easy and present zero challenge.

I think a sandbox game needs all types of players and splitting a server into 2 seperate groups will kill it completely, there's a reason why EvE has kept growing for the last decade, because it caters to all and not just 1 group over another and doesn't attempt to split people up. And why in most MMO games you see the highest population servers are PvP servers.
As constant PvP without any respite gets boring and vice versa with constant PvE

I've always found the most cooperative people are the one's that are willing to have a go at all types of play styles and not limit themselves to 1 or another, again EvE gets a bad rep sometimes but I have met some of the friendliest and most helpfull people out of any online game i've ever played there.

The system in Elite needs some work to stop mindless ganking but I believe the intention of Frontier was to have all types in the same world both working together and opposing each other, where traders need help from mercs to trade in safety and bounty hunters have a job of taking out high profile pirates who terrorize the space lanes.

that to me is how you create a living, breathing atmospheric game world.

Yeah. What follows aint directed towards you bro

My preference would be Open group only for the reasons you've stated and lots of other people have many times over. When it comes to the Mobius group, and not making it personal here, it seems to be working out fairly well as is for those who are wanting to be a part of it. You wouldn't think that from the constant noise in relation to the group.

Yet we keep hearing people still asking for more. On the one hands its claimed to be the biggest group, whatever, yet they are constantly chipping away wishing for more members, and it seems even though its a solution to the perceived problems of 'ganking' we are still hearing of the evils of having ones game 'spoilt'.

Asbo sidewinders.. you what? I'm not going to respond in kind to petty comments like that but getting shot at in space game is not the same as someone jumping on your car and torching it in the middle of the night whilst a rave goes on 3 feet from where you are sleeping. So cut that out, its a boring tired record. Jesus..

When it comes to this group - I think majority of the player base knows of its existence. I just wish I could mutually exclude myself from its members in game so I don't accidentally spoil their 'fun'.

Anyhow, I get the impression Frontier would like everyone to play in the Open and if you look at the various competitions its evidential of that. Its key to the games success in my view but its just a shame there is such a hysterical reaction to getting shot at in a space combat game, with a ranking system based upon mass murder, with a backdrop of raw anarchy and power plays. Maybe some are confusing this game with my liil pony?

/runs for the exit

 

[Robert Maynard]

I never said PvE players are a minority. I believe PvE players which adamantly refuse to have any possibility, no matter how remote, of a hostile player encounter are a minority. But that sort of, frankly, dogmatic outlook on the game probably has little to do with the game itself, in whatever shape and form.

I truly believe that most PvE players want a sense of logic and coherency from the game world, where they can reliably tell which areas and activities can be considered dangerous and which areas and activities are safe - both from a PvP and PvE standpoint. And if given that, yes, I do think the overwhelming majority of players would gladly play in Open.

Some PvE players are simply not interested in PvP at all. As well as that, PvE players don't necessarily need PvP players, i.e. they can co-op with other PvE players.

It seems very much that PvP players need PvE players more than PvE players need PvP players - PvP players are optional for PvE players but the same cannot necessarily be said for PvP players.

Regarding sense of logic and coherency - this applies regardless of whether PvP players are in the same environment.

 

[Imrus76]

Some PvE players are simply not interested in PvP at all. As well as that, PvE players don't necessarily need PvP players, i.e. they can co-op with other PvE players.

It seems very much that PvP players need PvE players more than PvE players need PvP players - PvP players are optional for PvE players but the same cannot necessarily be said for PvP players.

Regarding sense of logic and coherency - this applies regardless of whether PvP players are in the same environment.

Going on this way, open play will run out of players, except the hardcore PvP guys.
I'm Mobius member, playing both in group and open, currently sometimes I see some player in open, a lot more in Mobius.
Why people decide to play in privete group like Mobius, they don't want to take the currently unbalanced risk. Loosing ship means millions, for a pirate or "player killer", clear the wanted for 8-10k Credits. That's the real problem.
Until this balanced is unsolved, private groups and solo play will dominate and growing.

Better would be to find a solution for the balance!!!

 

[SiriusSeven]

I'm all for FD making changes to woo me back into Open. However, I have played many MMOs over the years, and I always find myself gravitating towards PvE. You can blame ED's design as much as you want, the fact remains that I've consistently chosen to spend most of my time in PvE, across many games (most of which offer further developed, and more balanced PvP).

That's not to say I eschew PvP. I kept and levelled PvP players in all those games. They just weren't my primaries. I didn't enjoy the interactions as much.

In ED we have one CMDR. One persona. And so my preference is PvE. I'd play in Open if I had another save slot. It might be fun to run around as an outlaw with a bounty. Or to play a daring rares trader in the core high-piracy systems. Just not on my primary. It's not a matter of just jumping into one mode or another. There are things to consider: bounties, fines, reputation, alliances, insurance costs, losses, etc.

 

[Sayne]

When it comes to this group... I just wish I could mutually exclude myself from its members in game so I don't accidentally spoil their 'fun.'

...but its just a shame there is such a hysterical reaction to getting shot at in a space combat game, with a ranking system based upon mass murder, with a backdrop of raw anarchy and power plays. Maybe some are confusing this game with my liil pony?

/runs for the exit

Ok first of all, your condescending tone is not helpful or constructive.

Second, not to get all psychology-y here, but losing a virtual something that you have spent time, energy and are emotionally invested in, is the exact same mental process as losing a real something. It really is. For some people, the sense of loss is compounded by the fact that a human, possessing empathy and a theory of mind, was the one that took it from them, especially if it was for no other reason than the other human's enjoyment.

Your incredulity at why people get upset at being virtually victimized doesn't change the fact that people get upset for being virtually victimized.

 

[uberdude]

Some PvE players are simply not interested in PvP at all. As well as that, PvE players don't necessarily need PvP players, i.e. they can co-op with other PvE players.

It seems very much that PvP players need PvE players more than PvE players need PvP players - PvP players are optional for PvE players but the same cannot necessarily be said for PvP players.

Regarding sense of logic and coherence - this applies regardless of whether PvP players are in the same environment.

This hit the nail so hard I think you busted it clean through the wood.

 

[Mohrgan]

I can understand the position that if the 'legal' system where more robust, some Co-Op players would migrate into Open. And, I have sympathy for players on both sides of the fence that want All to include all, but I think it is wishful thinking. Punishing the culprit won't keep the victims' ship and cargo from being gone. Any one who chooses solo or a PvE group to avoid that will continue to do so. The Open-only type player will still cry 'exploit'. Apply the axiom: A reasonable solution will still not satisfy an unreasonable person.
.
A player like myself wants to control their exposure to PvP. I have any number of reasons, not the least my physical condition, for choosing when to play in open, and when to play otherwise. I am not interested in any solution that still gives another player the option to control my exposure. Increasing the laws effect would do nothing to solve my, or players in similar situations issues. This may seem like a trivial matter, and it will be to some, but should that be so?
.
I can see nothing fairer than just giving the players their choice of play styles, at will. That would include access to a permanent Co-Op mode on the log in screen.

 

[uberdude]

Your incredulity at why people get upset at being virtually victimized doesn't change the fact that people get upset for being virtually victimized.

It's the "I don't think there is a problem so there must not be a problem." logic. I don't really think we can reach these people with any kind of reasonable argument. We're dealing with the "I've rejected your reality and substituted my own!" crowd.

 

[Mobius]

 

[Jorlin]

http://i.imgur.com/rDfoFmrh.png​

Hmm... i'd have to ask: what traders to escort in this scenario?

 

[Psychosis 808]

http://i.imgur.com/rDfoFmrh.png​

Now that sounds good, and I truly think that is what Frontier will be going for.

 

[Mobius]

Hmm... i'd have to ask: what traders to escort in this scenario?

obviously its a fake but my thinking would be that with factions patrolling their boarders would mean that traders would be safe from attack, but to get the big profit between factions, traders would need to travel into and through anarchy systems where pirate factions fight for dominance over the available trade lanes. npc wings would be available for traders aswell as player cmdrs perforing escort duties.