Operations: Cmdrs poor ship builds ruin the experience

Cmdr Snuffler

Cmdr Snuffler
I did loads of operation missions last night. No on foot ones, just rescue and destroying other ships. Both hard and easy modes.
Yes there are bugs, and I only got merc coins for 1 of the many missions, but what's more annoying than bugs is Cmdrs flying poorly specced ships.

Rescue Missions:
  • Paper thin transport ships. Cmdrs get blown up even on easy mode trying to reach the rescue ship.
  • Small transport ships. Cmdrs using an Adder or Cobra Mk3 to evacuate.
  • Large ships with no cabins. 2 corvetts and a cutter...non of them had any cabins. I was the only one transporting and we missed out on completion by 10 ppl.

Merc Missions:
  • Paper thin ships. I've not died once but I can see my teammates getting destroyed over and over and over again.
  • Using non combat ships. This is combat, so use a combat ship. Coming into a hard merc mission to kill a general in a Lynx or Type 8 is unacceptable.
Sooooo many ship builds I see on the forums are only good for one purpose, light solo/PG play. While Cmdrs claim they are amazing they are paper thin and imo are poorly specced, which is something I've brought up numerous times in other threads. This is now coming back to bite them...and ruining operations for Cmdrs on their team. I've seen quite a few posts complaining operation missions are too hard. I don't think they are, the issue is their ship is not fit for purpose and being as much use as a chocolate teapot.
In an EASY surface rescue mission yesterday all 3 of my team kept dying while my Lynx solo ran the NPC blockade to reach the rescue ship with only losing 10% shield (the rest of the team were respawning on the runner)

I hope FDev don't make the missions easier to compensate for poor ship builds and I really hope Cmdrs cotton on to the fact they need to build ships that can survive in open and operations.
 
I think part of the problem (unless I'm missing something) is you've already selected your ship before you choose an operation, and you don't know what operations there are going to be when you go in. Nobody wants to end up in a combat focused operation in a Highliner.

Since it all happens in an isolated universe I'd say the opposite should be the case. You choose the operation, then you choose the ship you're going to use.

I engineered up a Highliner with this operation in mind but I haven't had chance to use it yet because it's not the default ship I'd sit in before I enter the Operations menu.
 
I tried my first operations tonight and yeah, was surprised I was flying my unarmed cutter in one of the missions (as I hadn't changed it). I realise now you can also change your ship in the lobby screen so.. learnings I guess. I also didn't know one of the missions involved ship to ship combat as well as on foot, as the mission description didn't specifically say anything about that, it just had a picture of some onfoot activity. It was fun doing both though, good thing I had selected my Krait II by then.
 
While I understand and appreciate the OPs frustration - and know first hand how bad builds can be, almost managed once to destroy one CMDRs Python while in a Sidey (I was surprised how quickly their hull went down) - this is exactly why Frontier shouldn't force MP down people's throats. And I say this as someone how plays in Open exclusively and know my way around other players, hostile or not.

Edit: to add, when I tried soloing the rescue mission I ended up completely ill equipped as I used a shieldless Lynx. Will know better now, if I were to try the mission again. So would give players some time to learn and adjust.

Instead though, I will likely now just sell the Lynx as I never liked the ship (and its Adder cockpit), as I can see now the real purpose of the ship solely appearing to be for these Operations missions, and doubt it'll be of much use outside specific CGs, let alone standard missions. Meh.
 
Last edited:
BigTed said:
I think part of the problem (unless I'm missing something) is you've already selected your ship before you choose an operation, and you don't know what operations there are going to be when you go in. Nobody wants to end up in a combat focused operation in a Highliner.

Since it all happens in an isolated universe I'd say the opposite should be the case. You choose the operation, then you choose the ship you're going to use.

I engineered up a Highliner with this operation in mind but I haven't had chance to use it yet because it's not the default ship I'd sit in before I enter the Operations menu.
Click to expand...

I've not tried operations yet, is this really how it works? Seems rather backwards! So, I cannot pick a mission then call in an appropriate ship of mine? Like many, I have ships built for various roles so of course I want to bring the right one. If true, this needs to be changed. Hopefully will have some time to try Operations over the weekend.
 
So the problem can be summarised, roughly, in this graph (I normally use log scales for these, but in this case I think the linear scale is clearer at getting the point across)
rank.png

This one happens to be of squadron combat scores for the last full season, but all graphs of ranked player activity whether group or individual look basically like this one. CG tier participation, Powerplay weekly leaderboards, colonisation construction rates, whatever it is, where Frontier gives access to the data, you see exactly this sort of pattern with minimal variation.
(This graph also goes on for another 10,000 or so squadrons to the right, but on this vertical scale they're also indistinguisable from "zero" score, plus a whole bunch more players who haven't even got as far as squadrons yet)

Most Elite Dangerous players are not flying the latest G5 engineered ships (even badly built ones), don't (yet) have access to the credits and engineers and materials needed to fix that even if they wanted to, and so on. The sort of people who are, are in the "top 100" part of that graph, with scores tens or hundreds of times higher than them [1].

Now we have Operations and you actually get to meet the average players ... and yes, they're flying pretty terrible ships, and don't really know how to get the best out of even what they have, and even if you help them through that (or block them for not being up to your standards) ... tomorrow there'll be a whole bunch of new players who've only just bought the game and are doing their first Operation and are in exactly the same position. And because 90% of players are terrible, and 90% of the rest are mediocre, if you queue up with random players that's who you're going to get.

Either pick Operations you can solo if you have to (and treat any assistance from the other three as a nice bonus), or arrange a team with your fellow 1%-ers beforehand.



[1] And because of the way the graph scales, someone at "top 100" sort of level - tens of times better than the genuine "average" player - can look up to see the "top 1" player (who's showing off Solo-ing a Hard Operation) being over ten times better than them, and think "well, I'm not that good really, pretty casual at just an hour or two a day" and not realise just how far off the end of the capability curve they themselves are.
 
Scoob said:
I've not tried operations yet, is this really how it works? Seems rather backwards! So, I cannot pick a mission then call in an appropriate ship of mine? Like many, I have ships built for various roles so of course I want to bring the right one. If true, this needs to be changed. Hopefully will have some time to try Operations over the weekend.
Click to expand...
Apparently not - from reading above it seems you can change your ship in the lobby, but I haven't seen any option to do it.
 
BigTed said:
Apparently not - from reading above it seems you can change your ship in the lobby, but I haven't seen any option to do it.
Click to expand...

Cool, that's better! As this is a beta in effect, hopefully things will become clearer... and rewards work as intended.
 
BigTed said:
I think part of the problem (unless I'm missing something) is you've already selected your ship before you choose an operation, and you don't know what operations there are going to be when you go in. Nobody wants to end up in a combat focused operation in a Highliner.
Click to expand...
Scoob said:
I've not tried operations yet, is this really how it works? Seems rather backwards! So, I cannot pick a mission then call in an appropriate ship of mine? Like many, I have ships built for various roles so of course I want to bring the right one. If true, this needs to be changed. Hopefully will have some time to try Operations over the weekend.
Click to expand...
This is incorrect.
Once in the lobby you have the option to pick your ship. Clicking on your ship opens up the "buy new" shipyard interface where you can scroll through all your ships and select one. Doesn't matter where you are parked, or the ship you select is parked.

The other issue I've seen is people have selected the coreect ship, ie one with cabins, but then choose to engage NPCs instead of rescuing people and running the blockade, which results in them getting destroyed over and over again.
 
BigTed said:
Apparently not - from reading above it seems you can change your ship in the lobby, but I haven't seen any option to do it.
Click to expand...
I've found that to be true with me as the squad leader, but I can't change outfitting. I prefer to share modules across my ships, so I do not have ships fully equipped ready to switch to, but enjoy re-fitting everytime I switch activities. In addition, I don't know if switching is working if joining a squad as mere member, because everytime I tried that, the "Server error" bug bite me.
 
Scoob said:
As this is a beta in effect, hopefully things will become clearer... and rewards work as intended.
Click to expand...
Seems like so, but unfortunately it is a beta of the whole game - not just the Operations feature - which nobody opted-in for. As it stands now, I see a too-hard-to-play isolated game-play basically ruining the game for almost every other activity I've enjoyed before. So yes, let's hope this Odyssey Deja-vu will be fixed faster than the original.
 
Mr T said:
I also didn't know one of the missions involved ship to ship combat as well as on foot, as the mission description didn't specifically say anything about that, it just had a picture of some onfoot activity
Click to expand...
I agree with this. WHen selecting a mission the description is a little lacking. It should include exactly what ahpps, ie Ship Combat + On foot combat....or Rescue Mission, Cabins + Weapons + Hacking Limpet. After a while you will get to know what's required, but for people starting out it's not obvious.
Knuttin Atoll said:
Edit: to add, when I tried soloing the rescue mission I ended up completely ill equipped as I used a shieldless Lynx. Will know better now, if I were to try the mission again. So would give players some time to learn and adjust.
Click to expand...
I am hoping this is the case...but I also suspect that you will always get Cmdrs coming in ill-equipped for the mission. Time will tell on this one.
 
I think a hidden issue (which is core to this thread) is the unwillingness to learn and change- yes you start with an unsuitable ship, and fly in a certain way but its being able to change and adapt to overcome that challenge when things go wrong. What I've seen over the years is people simply bouncing out because they won't alter tactics or the ship.
 
Tifu said:
I think you're supposed to click on the pedestal you're standing on. There's a picture of your current ship on it.
Click to expand...
Ah, see, I didn't know that. And I don't think I'm the dumbest person in the world so I suspect other players will not know that either. Hopefully as word spreads that this is possible, the issue the OP has raised will reduce a little, as people realise they can change to their most suitable ship for the operation they've ended up in.
 
Cmdr Snuffler said:
Interesting how people view things differently :)
I see a easy-to-play but Cmdrs using a poorly specced ships because solo lets them get away with suboptimal ship builds with no consequences.
Click to expand...
As Ian already presented, your view might be in the minority. As I said: if they do not work on that impression, you will soon be among only a few elite CMDRs. Not sure if that would make you happy, either.
And don't get me wrong: I've done 2 Operations solo now (on easy), used the proper gear and ships for it, and know how to complete them. No death yet. Still I think it is too-hard-to-play for most of the player-base.
 
Ian Doncaster said:
So the problem can be summarised, roughly, in this graph (I normally use log scales for these, but in this case I think the linear scale is clearer at getting the point across)
View attachment 460924
This one happens to be of squadron combat scores for the last full season, but all graphs of ranked player activity whether group or individual look basically like this one. CG tier participation, Powerplay weekly leaderboards, colonisation construction rates, whatever it is, where Frontier gives access to the data, you see exactly this sort of pattern with minimal variation.
(This graph also goes on for another 10,000 or so squadrons to the right, but on this vertical scale they're also indistinguisable from "zero" score, plus a whole bunch more players who haven't even got as far as squadrons yet)

Most Elite Dangerous players are not flying the latest G5 engineered ships (even badly built ones), don't (yet) have access to the credits and engineers and materials needed to fix that even if they wanted to, and so on. The sort of people who are, are in the "top 100" part of that graph, with scores tens or hundreds of times higher than them [1].

Now we have Operations and you actually get to meet the average players ... and yes, they're flying pretty terrible ships, and don't really know how to get the best out of even what they have, and even if you help them through that (or block them for not being up to your standards) ... tomorrow there'll be a whole bunch of new players who've only just bought the game and are doing their first Operation and are in exactly the same position. And because 90% of players are terrible, and 90% of the rest are mediocre, if you queue up with random players that's who you're going to get.

Either pick Operations you can solo if you have to (and treat any assistance from the other three as a nice bonus), or arrange a team with your fellow 1%-ers beforehand.



[1] And because of the way the graph scales, someone at "top 100" sort of level - tens of times better than the genuine "average" player - can look up to see the "top 1" player (who's showing off Solo-ing a Hard Operation) being over ten times better than them, and think "well, I'm not that good really, pretty casual at just an hour or two a day" and not realise just how far off the end of the capability curve they themselves are.
Click to expand...
The other problem is that FD never build in ways for features to scale and grow with players. Its either fixed low level (which killed PP2), or high (Operations).
 
Not everyone is likely to have combat ships maxed out. Most are likely to have the largest A rated shields, heavy duty deep plated armour and mediocre weapons. Getting top rated ships is likely to be too much for many CMDRs, so Operations should be set to allow them to successfully participate at least on easy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom