Pay2Win made it to Elite

[Agony_Aunt]

I think some people would argue that half price rebuy costs is far more P2W than being able to buy a ship fitted with, as yet unspecified, modules. Just because I'm pointing out that ED has always had the elements the OP and others are mentioning, does not mean I am applauding it or what Frontier is doing now.

If that is typical of Early Access and to be expected, then the addition of a Premium Currency and later selling gameplay items through the premium currency is about as standard MMO practice as you can get. I'm only surprised it's taken this long after ARX was introduced. I only wish LOTRO had of held out that long...

I am far more concerned by the early access to the Python than being able to buy a fast track.

Fair enough, and yes, there were grumblings back in the day about reduced insurance costs as well.

Its all a question of where people feel the line should be drawn.

Now, FD might in the coming days clarify what they meant and how things will work that might modify my opinion, but based on what I infer at the moment, that line has been crossed.

 

[amigacooke]

"Pay to win" - win what?

It's a sandbox game - there is no endgame, no "victory".

I look forward to being able to get Stygian skins though.

Don’t tell the PP and BGS folk there’s no victory.

Good move to make skins available all year round.

 

[Disemboweled Ego]

I think some people would argue that half price rebuy costs is far more P2W than being able to buy a ship fitted with, as yet unspecified, modules. Just because I'm pointing out that ED has always had the elements the OP and others are mentioning, does not mean I am applauding it or what Frontier is doing now.

Yeah that's pay to win but you don't see posts theory crafting about what monetization they would like to see in the game to rip them and others off the best.

I feel like those people are already coming out of the woodwork and even if the latest changes don't fundamentally change the game then if the attitude around it changes and all the discussion around the game becomes discussion about the next ARX prebuilt/new ship they release or wishlists for what ships people would like to see prebuilt versions released of next then that's something I'm not interested in at all.

This is not what the game was about for me and these are not my people.

 

[pFVD]

also what happens when a new player buys a brand new cutter for cash............ and then crashes it without the credits to buy back? do they get life time insurance as well? in which case that will be a griefers paradise, if not the complaints will be loud when someone loses their ship they paid cash for!.

Rule #1 Never fly buy without a rebuy!

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Don’t tell the PP and BGS folk there’s no victory.

The only thing you win with those is getting to do the same thing next week, though.

Now, "Pay to make the other guy lose faster", that's a separate matter.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

"Pay to win" - win what?

Its been covered many times, but here we go again, P2W doesn't mean just winning something in game or winning the game by paying. It covers a wide range of practices where people can open their wallets to gain some in-game benefit.

 

[Ozric]

Fair enough, and yes, there were grumblings back in the day about reduced insurance costs as well.

Its all a question of where people feel the line should be drawn.

Now, FD might in the coming days clarify what they meant and how things will work that might modify my opinion, but based on what I infer at the moment, that line has been crossed.

And my line was the introduction of a Premium Currency.

 

[amigacooke]

Now, "Pay to make the other guy lose faster", that's a separate matter.

Not quite as snappy is it?

 

[IstvaanDCIV]

you could use exactly the same logic for the ships in star citizen, although you are quite vocal against them. people can buy them now to play with whilst in alpha and have them in the game, or they can earn them by playing the game once it launches.

some how its fine for elite dangerous but money grubbing for SC?

It's my understanding that most of the "ships" you can buy, especially the more expensive and fancy ones, don't actually exist in-game and likely never will. Whereas the only ship in ED that doesn't exist yet is the Python Mk2, and, I strongly suspect that won't turn out be vapourware.

I think that's a critical difference.

 

[Jmanis]

I am far more concerned by the early access to the Python than being able to buy a fast track.

this.

 

[Rat Catcher]

you could use exactly the same logic for the ships in star citizen, although you are quite vocal against them.

I am?

I do think that people playing thousands for something that doesn't exist in an alpha edition of a game may be foolhardy, but then, I pledged my coin to the same scam artists in the past also...

At least, if players spend their Arx on a Python Mk II it will be in the game as soon as they have paid, unlike the dream peddlers offerings!

 

[PiLhEaD]

.....
So like I did with the LEP I suppose before the Beta. (My Kickstarter pledge also allowed me to start with a Cobra Mk. III and 1,000 credits) Not that I thought others were chumps for not getting it, I just wanted to support the game's development to be clear.

Which does beg the question if we LEP'rs should get the Py2 early. The answer is obviously not.

Still, I can still swan around in my Cobra IV... yup, its pay to win, all over agai.....

MS Flight Sim has monetised planes, and I don't really see this as much more than that, and arguably less so, as you can still play the game exactly as you did before, to earn these ships. This will allow for the less devoted grinders to have some fun, whilst also helping to fund the future of the game.

 

[Planewalker]

AOh, how about we can buy packs of random materials, with a chance to get some good stuff!

Paying money for random payouts is gambling, so i really hope you are joking.

 

[Scoob]

Paying for random payouts with real money is gambling.

I'm aware, I was trying to be funny lol.

 

[Rainbro]

MS Flight Sim has monetised planes, and I don't really see this as much more than that, and arguably less so, as you can still play the game exactly as you did before, to earn these ships. This will allow for the less devoted grinders to have some fun, whilst also helping to fund the future of the game.

Thing is, it's not "exactly as you did before". Frontier are choosing to delay the release of ships. That is a direct negative impact on those who don't pay, unlike actual early-access stuff like the betas, or cosmetics.

 

[zimms]

They're not even in the same 0.001 : 1 league.

I mean CIG made 650 millions without even having a RTM release - SC is still in alpha. Not even in beta, it's a goddamn alpha
How much FDev made before actually releasing the game?

Yeah, but that wasn't the point. Everton FC and Liverpool FC are still both football clubs, despite one being way more successful.

 

[IstvaanDCIV]

Yeah, but that wasn't the point. Everton FC and Liverpool FC are still both football clubs, despite one being way more successful.

Do either of those clubs sell tickets for seats that don't exist?

 

[Rubbernuke]

Now, "Pay to make the other guy lose faster", that's a separate matter.

The thing is (or was) with BGS murder was making your ship as cheap as possible for when you pushed it into a nearby quarry.

 

[Viajero]

It's obviously not on the same scale, but the principle is the same.

From the point of view of a player that doesn’t like p2w the scale is key though. If the advantage obtained is not really material when compared to the grind time saved through money then that pay to win becomes tolerable or even irrelevant. Example: the % reduction in rebuys that early Elite backers got is technically p2w but in practicality no one cares.

 

[Planewalker]

I'm aware, I was trying to be funny lol.

Fair.