Petition To Allow CMDRs To Join Multiple Squadrons

It's the same problem as having a price controlled mission system that spans the galaxy and even over the borders of super powers. They all have agreed on a pricing system on missions that's very arbitrary in general, but somehow applies to every station, even all the way to Colonia. There's a cabal controlling the galaxy, I tell ya'. :)

Yeah, I see what you're saying. It's almost like there's another unofficial superpower under whose influence we all fall. ;)
 
Seems like reinventing the wheel

One squadron per player makes sense and is the proper way.


Hopefully FDevs holds fast on this.. I suspect they will
 
Seems like reinventing the wheel

One squadron per player makes sense and is the proper way.


Hopefully FDevs holds fast on this.. I suspect they will
Define "proper way"?

So CMDR X has the following regular in game activities which he would like to enjoy doing with other CMDRs in the game:-
- Powerplay (Grom)
- Xeno Hunting
- Mining CGs
- He plans on doing a big Distant Worlds type exploration trip in a few months.


So with only one Squadron membership, he'd most likely have to join a Grom orientated Powerplay Squadron. And when he wishes to take part in Xeno Hunting, Mining CGs and the exploration trip, he'd not be able to be part of a Squadron in the game, with any/all benfits those would offer.

If we compare this to the alternative where he could join say upto five Squadrons, only one of which could be a Powerplay/Faction one, then he'd be able to join dedicate Squadrons for all of the above! Now that to me, seems "the proper way!"


And if we consider in the future if/when Fleet Carriers are added, and we hope these bring some worthwhile gameplay to the game, which can be utilised and add to Powerplay, Xeno Hunting, Mining and Exploration, with the limitation of one Squadron, what does this mean? Because if our CMDR can be a member of dedicated Squadrons for all his activities, he get's to benefit in all these areas! Surely that would seem to be "the proper way?"

Ultimately, I'm confused why more effort seems to have gone into grind leader boards for Squadrons (of interested/benefit to a minority I suspect), rather than allowing CMDRs to get the most out of them, by being a member of more than one (of intereest/benefit to a majority I suspect)...


Note: I was interested to hear opinions on this single Squadron limitation from the round table discussion here. Seems it was raised on the visit of some of these guys to Frontier a month or so ago - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9-7Db_AuMQ&t=1h16m30s
 
Can we choose that dev time is spent elsewhere?

No... But we can discuss things - such as how joining multiple Squadrons might be a better outcome for the game - politely on the forums, and ultimately see if FD agree at some point - Of course, all the while under duress form the same old, "thou shall not question FD" brigade, who are best ignored TBH ;)
 
No... But we can discuss things - such as how joining multiple Squadrons might be a better outcome for the game - politely on the forums, and ultimately see if FD agree at some point - Of course, all the while under duress form the same old, "thou shall not question FD" brigade, who are best ignored TBH ;)

Sorry, but thats just a lie. You are not here to "discuss things", you are here to pressurize FD into doing what you want.
You really think FD have not carefully considered multi faction membership ?
It does not fit within their design in a cost effective manner, so has been ruled out. Can you not accept that ?

I wanted a totally different (and better) design for Squads, but fully appreciate that my solution would have cost ten times the system that FD have implemented. What they have demonstrated (yet to test) is a simple and robust system. Not every group will, or is expected to, utilize all the functionality of Squads. Many will use some of it and be content, many will use some of it and find it detrimental to their current group structure, many will already be wise to it, and probably not use Squads at all. Its just a tool to use as the groups see fit.

Maybe we will get another phase of development of Squads, but not immediately, so I see no point in creating a doom squad based on your perceived weaknesses.
 
No... But we can discuss things - such as how joining multiple Squadrons might be a better outcome for the game - politely on the forums, and ultimately see if FD agree at some point - Of course, all the while under duress form the same old, "thou shall not question FD" brigade, who are best ignored TBH ;)

They tend to know more about the game than the angry ex-boyfriends who hang around resentfully.
 
Sorry, but thats just a lie. You are not here to "discuss things", you are here to pressurize FD into doing what you want.
You really think FD have not carefully considered multi faction membership ?
It does not fit within their design in a cost effective manner, so has been ruled out. Can you not accept that ?

I wanted a totally different (and better) design for Squads, but fully appreciate that my solution would have cost ten times the system that FD have implemented. What they have demonstrated (yet to test) is a simple and robust system. Not every group will, or is expected to, utilize all the functionality of Squads. Many will use some of it and be content, many will use some of it and find it detrimental to their current group structure, many will already be wise to it, and probably not use Squads at all. Its just a tool to use as the groups see fit.

Maybe we will get another phase of development of Squads, but not immediately, so I see no point in creating a doom squad based on your perceived weaknesses.
If FD go ahead with single Squadron membership, I see potential issues with that, as do others. So I'll point out what I feel they are. Feel free to agree or disagree.

However, if this bizarelly makes you feel the need to declare me "a liar" for some odd reason, I can't comment on that...

Who knows, maybe FD are absolutely on top of the matter and their single membership Squadrons are absolutely the right choice... We'll see. But in the meantime, what's the issue with people simply discussing the matter, ideally without being needless branded "a liar"? ;)
 
Last edited:
Sorry, but thats just a lie. You are not here to "discuss things", you are here to pressurize FD into doing what you want.
You really think FD have not carefully considered multi faction membership ?
It does not fit within their design in a cost effective manner, so has been ruled out. Can you not accept that ?

I wanted a totally different (and better) design for Squads, but fully appreciate that my solution would have cost ten times the system that FD have implemented. What they have demonstrated (yet to test) is a simple and robust system. Not every group will, or is expected to, utilize all the functionality of Squads. Many will use some of it and be content, many will use some of it and find it detrimental to their current group structure, many will already be wise to it, and probably not use Squads at all. Its just a tool to use as the groups see fit.

Maybe we will get another phase of development of Squads, but not immediately, so I see no point in creating a doom squad based on your perceived weaknesses.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'm just going to explain a bit about my take on the squadron aspects.

One of the big things that 3.3 is tackling is the disparity between what you can do purely in-game versus what you can do out-of-game. (I'm not claiming this is FD's primary intention, but it is certainly happening in a substantial way.)

Looking at Squadrons through that lens, we have a current situation of all communications to more than a wing or an instance having to be done out-of-game, and limitations with wings and instances in-game as it is, due to their temporary nature. As well as basic comms, this is a pretty severe restriction on in-game collaboration and info sharing.

Squadrons is a step forwards in tackling that issue.

However, restricting membership to one squadron is a pretty severe limitation in terms of tackling the issue, as it means that things are going to have to be still conducted out-of-game to get around the restriction.

Also, I'm aware that there's limitations to how many people can be in a squadron, and that also potentially means that for larger groups things might potentially still have to be conducted out-of-game. However, multiple squadron membership also provides a solution to that issue, as a large group could be split into a network of squadrons (hierarchical / non-hierarchical as the group sees fit).

So it's effectively a double whammy in terms of the impact of not having membership of multiple squadrons.

This also becomes more of an issue in the future, if there's ever any drive to turn basic comms (i.e. chat) into a more of an information sharing tool, which ties into discoveries, the codex, missions, scenarios, events, and so on and so forth.

Now I know that this is just one part of squadrons, but I think it's worth discussing to highlight the need for that kind of functionality. If this side of things is being restricted due to other aspects of squadrons - the links into Factions, etc. for example - then possibly a modified solution would work.

Allowing membership of only one Powerplay aligned squadron, but membership of others is one suggestion.

Another might be to to have full and lite versions of squadrons, with the former having the full set of functionality and there being a limit to membership of one of these, and the latter having just the comms functionality, and there being membership of multiple of these possible.


It's entirely possible that FD have considered all of this, been through it all, and what they've ended up with is the only pragmatic solution. It's also possible that there's aspects they haven't considered, potential solutions they haven't identified, or that they've identified various possible options and they're going with the one which they think is the priority for the playerbase, in which case it makes sense to try to inform those priorities. I'd imagine that with so much going on out-of-game this represents an issue for FD in decisions around this, as the metrics for various things just aren't going to be there - for example how would it be possible to tell from in-game info to what extent people span multiple groups. We simply don't really know what the actual situation is.

Which for me makes it worth at least discussing it.
 
Define "proper way"?

So CMDR X has the following regular in game activities which he would like to enjoy doing with other CMDRs in the game:-
- Powerplay (Grom)
- Xeno Hunting
- Mining CGs
- He plans on doing a big Distant Worlds type exploration trip in a few months.


So with only one Squadron membership, he'd most likely have to join a Grom orientated Powerplay Squadron. And when he wishes to take part in Xeno Hunting, Mining CGs and the exploration trip, he'd not be able to be part of a Squadron in the game, with any/all benfits those would offer.

If we compare this to the alternative where he could join say upto five Squadrons, only one of which could be a Powerplay/Faction one, then he'd be able to join dedicate Squadrons for all of the above! Now that to me, seems "the proper way!"


And if we consider in the future if/when Fleet Carriers are added, and we hope these bring some worthwhile gameplay to the game, which can be utilised and add to Powerplay, Xeno Hunting, Mining and Exploration, with the limitation of one Squadron, what does this mean? Because if our CMDR can be a member of dedicated Squadrons for all his activities, he get's to benefit in all these areas! Surely that would seem to be "the proper way?"

Ultimately, I'm confused why more effort seems to have gone into grind leader boards for Squadrons (of interested/benefit to a minority I suspect), rather than allowing CMDRs to get the most out of them, by being a member of more than one (of intereest/benefit to a majority I suspect)...


Note: I was interested to hear opinions on this single Squadron limitation from the round table discussion here. Seems it was raised on the visit of some of these guys to Frontier a month or so ago - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9-7Db_AuMQ&t=1h16m30s

1-Power play is dead, this point is moot


2-FDev has not said anything about "squadron rewards" that I've seen. This would matter little and if they have. I guess logically you pick the group that suits most of your needs. This isn't a one size fits all situation.

3. Fleet carriers are not in game. I doubt they will be and I also doubt you will be able to move then around at will all the time.

Strange people need to be rewarded on multiple fronts in game. Almost comical.
 
1-Power play is dead, this point is moot
I didn't see that memo? I've never been much interested in it, but I believe some of the community is. And it wouldn't take much tightening of some of the gameplay aspects of it to make it more interesting to more of the community possibly?

2-FDev has not said anything about "squadron rewards" that I've seen. This would matter little and if they have. I guess logically you pick the group that suits most of your needs. This isn't a one size fits all situation.
It was covered to some degree in the livestream. ie: At least a leader board of a certain ilk. Seems slightly questionable to me given it will be counterproductive as it risks excluding most of the community (ie: the vaste majority of squadrons won't be geared to "compete" and won't appear on this table)?

3. Fleet carriers are not in game. I doubt they will be and I also doubt you will be able to move then around at will all the time.
Hope you're wrong x 2 on this front. And more importantly I hope they (Fleet Carriers) add some actual gameplay mechanics of worth to the game. eg: Making a viable mechanic for mining etc etc...
 
I shed the rose colored glasses long ago.

Never have I seen a company be handed the golden goose and for them to fail so miserably at putting it to use. Elite and its genre is very popular right now. The future open world sandbox MMO is a money maker. People love dreaming. Give them the tools to xdo it. Wheres the planet side big game hunts? Gas giant mining? The military campaigns? Even the Thargoids were largely a miss because you can easily ignore them.

Most recently the Gnosis debacle. They were literally handed a blank cheque for having something fun for the devs to create and evolve the story on, and something exciting and new for the players to explore, poke and prod and blow up. Instead we got Jacques 2.0 and explorers being nuked on the pad.

Back to the original point I guess

Squadrons should be about loyalty to your banner. Not how many you can fly to gain perks everywhere. My point is, if you are primarily a miner then that should be your focus. Not the "maybe I'll do" list.

The leader board idea seems risky. As it will only be a handful competing in each CG. Combat oriented groups likely won't succeed at trade or exploration, in that regard you are absolutely correct, most people suggested multiple squadrons but only allowing your progress to get registered to your main, but at that point why join several?

My thoughts on fleet carrier is they will end up merely as shiny trophies for squadrons and nothing more.

Is there tons of gameplay that could be added because of them?

Totally.

Will it happen? I'm not holding my breath. They were delayed (I'm assuming because staff getting shuffled around for other games)
But the way I look at it is this.

-The mega ships are in the game. I'm assuming even to use something like the S&R ships as place holders just to get the ball rolling was possible. It certainly would've been enough to keep players happy. Then update later on with cooler looking stuff.

-Squadrons is already coming so to integrate the fleet carriers in shouldn't have been that big of a deal.

Basically FDev didn't even try. This was something that could have been chucked together and polished later and likely would have pacified players. In game controls that allow you to move the fleet ship once a week either via voting system or preassigned people with permission granted by squadron commander. Put a minimum number on squadron carriers to prevent everyone attempting to have their own personal fleet carrier. Boom. FDevs involvement is minimal, there isn't 5000 new faction applications over night and they can focus on expanding use and content.

Instead it was delayed with no new delivery date. So that means... Very possibly years or much worse in my eyes, they decided this should be purchased in an expansion.

Why is this wrong? Give the game something new. Atmospheric landings, spacelegs and the ability to walk around stations, something. Charge 60$ and carry on. I'd spend that without a second thought because I know there's hours upon hours of possible content there.


Annnnnd wrote a essay.

TLDR version

They can do more but aren't. Can't help but notice how many skins lately though...

Don't get me wrong. I feel FDevs employees are working hard and are a clever passionate bunch, but there is a definite lack of direction. Beyond while nice had insane dev time for what was delivered..
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom