Phase 4 Feedback Thread

When you reload weapon, it should be automatic and assumed that your weapon is reloaded completely. You shouldn't have to guess when the animation is complete. The way it is now, if you hit reload, or even the weapon starts reloading, but you switch to another weapon, it's like you never reloaded the first one unless you take a few test shots after reloading. Do you think in real life, a soldier would partially finish a reload? Oops.

If you land near a battle, a lot of times the option to join a side doesn't show up. Hitting the 'E' key, or whatever you have mapped, should always bring up the battle option HUD. You should always be able to a) pick side, b) leave battle, c) see stats. I like that at the top of your HUD, it shows some information, but I should be able to see that info when I want to...if I miss it scrolling the first time, I never have access to it again...why?

If I get killed in a base with facilities, but haven't had the option to join a side, maybe it makes more sense that Im reanimated on a bed at the base? Or at least have that as an option?
 
Something changed with the damage taken when landing. I land pretty cautiously on planet surfaces. This week I landed and despite having a "blue" alignment indicator, and lowering very carefully on a low-g planet, I lost my shields and 44% of my hull very quickly and couldn't land. WTH? So I popped into camera suite and looked at what was up. There was nothing under my Krait Phantom that would obstruct landing. After the shields recharged, in camera suite mode, I tried landing again and the left rear landing foot sparked inexplicably and the ship wouldn't land and shields took damage. A scraped landing strut should not damage my shields NOR hull. Period. Again, I was properly aligned for landing. But to lose my shields and 44% hull for no reason is quite excessive and unnecessary. I've crashed in horizons on a >2g planet and only lost ~30% hull and shields. That was reasonable, IMHO.

Please:
  • ensure damage taken when landing is legitimate
  • ensure damage taken when landing is fair

Otherwise solo long-range exploration will be very negatively impacted (particularly with no fleet carrier).

Thanks!

Update, I just blew up trying to land. Same thing -- no obvious obstruction. Just kaboom. Seems to be worse on a steep incline.
 
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Gameplay:​


Consumables (Charge Batteries and MedKits) should have a short animation when applied and not work in an instant!
Both of them can be inserted in some specific slots in the spacesuit.
Current instant use is immersion breaking.
Player animations (Turning, Kneeling etc...) should be slowed down for immersion.
Kneeling should not be possible on space stations.
Player should be able to cycle between Walking/Sprinting while in a station instead of current immersion-breaking Jogging/Sprinting.

Combat and Progression:​

Long TTK on all enemies, even civilians make weapons feel insignificant, game less-immersive and shooting - not fun.
How come I need 5-6 bullets to put down a single technician? Headshots do also feel insignificant.
Long TTK makes it possible to play carelessly and just run through enemy fire if cornered.
Less forgiving/faster combat will make on-foot part of this game to feel just as realistic as the in-space part feels.

Revive Mechanics and "strong" zones on player suits may balance out combats difficulty.

Small Arms and Fists should not be able to harm Spaceships Armor. SRV, SLF can be susceptible to guns and rifles, but not get destroyed by punching!

Upgrading weapons through Engineering is boring and tedious.
Stronger weapons and attachments can be earnable through a rank, like "Weapons License" from a specific faction.

More suggestions on how to make weapons more distinct while not creating either a "OP META" or boring "Reskins" with same DPS can be found in this thread:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/combat-should-be-overhauled-beyond-numbers-and-this-is-how.569079/

Suits:​

Same as with weapons - they feel oversimplified, generic and boring. Suits need more depth like different weight, different weak/strong-points, and much more customisation options through installations of different modules.

Buying stronger suits should also be possible through ranking up your character (Like you need to be a Pathfinder in Exploration to buy G5 Artemis) because material gathering as "The ONLY Way" to upgrade feels just depressing and discouraging.

Also, TOOLS should not be bound to specific suits! They should be equipable on all suits, whilst occupy a weapon/sidearm slot on "incompatible" suite to create some interesting trade-off situation.

Suits should not be swappable in a SRV (How would you imagine that?) to increase realism and encourage some strategical planning.

Helmets should be always on if in combat situation, otherwise there is no excuse for having to put plenty of bullets in someone's unprotected head - long TTK gets immersion breaking again.

It could be cool with suits own integrity bar over player health, so that Oxygen should start depleting with current speed only when suite is under 50% of health.
We do also need some visible Oxygen Leaks on the damaged suites - it will make hits on enemies to feel much more impactful!

Settlements:​

Any settlement feels like a generic polygon for the player to kill and plunder. That feels weird: if there are no interactive service givers in the settlement - how come the player is allowed to walk around there in the first place?

Can we get some vendors and mission givers that would be active in settlements? So that ground facilities could be open for peaceful interaction and the player could get a chance to BUY settlement-specific materials instead of being obliged to steal stuff from all lockers.

We also need some supply missions from space stations, towards distant settlements to bound on-ship and on-foot gameplay.

Thanks for your attention! Keep up the great work!​

 
Something changed with the damage taken when landing. I land pretty cautiously on planet surfaces. This week I landed and despite having a "blue" alignment indicator, and lowering very carefully on a low-g planet, I lost my shields and 44% of my hull very quickly and couldn't land. WTH? So I popped into camera suite and looked at what was up. There was nothing under my Krait Phantom that would obstruct landing. After the shields recharged, in camera suite mode, I tried landing again and the left rear landing foot sparked inexplicably and the ship wouldn't land and shields took damage. A scraped landing strut should not damage my shields NOR hull. Period. Again, I was properly aligned for landing. But to lose my shields and 44% hull for no reason is quite excessive and unnecessary. I've crashed in horizons on a >2g planet and only lost ~30% hull and shields. That was reasonable, IMHO.

Please:
  • ensure damage taken when landing is legitimate
  • ensure damage taken when landing is fair

Otherwise solo long-range exploration will be very negatively impacted (particularly with no fleet carrier).

Thanks!

Update, I just blew up trying to land. Same thing -- no obvious obstruction. Just kaboom. Seems to be worse on a steep incline.
It`s not a reply, but acknowledgement of this specific problem. Raised collision damage make even auto-landings unpredictably dangerous! Just saw a Type 10 do KABOOM while auto-landing on a planet.

Landing gear should be made immune to collision-damage!

As an option, velocity curve towards high collision damage should be smoothed.
 
Shipyard Design:

I like the new Shipyard Design in general very much, but there is an very important feature missing! The ability to see which modules are equiped at the ships in the shipyard (ship loadout).
When you have played thousands of hours ED and you have a large fleet of engineered ships, its a pain to find and swap engineered modules when you want quickliy adjust / change your loadout between ships. At least we had listed the equiped modules on the right side with ship stats. This is no longer the case.
It simply costs to much time to switch ships - find modules - store module - etc.... and is very annoying. We will be forced to use 3rd party tools like Inara to find the modules we are looking for in our ships.

Please give us at least a ship loadout overview in the shipyard with applied engineer mod information. Or maybe a better faster view for managing loadouts / modules of ships directly between ships.
 
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I like the way SC handles the ability to slow walk > walk > speedwalk > jog > sprint by using the mouse wheel to adjust speed. With an analog controller this is not so much of an issue as you can vary the speed.

During base missions and sneaking about type things, it'd be good to be able to vary the speed that we are moving around for stealth, caution and reduce footstep noise
 
Regarding the viability of physical multicrew:

I feel physical multicrew is a feature that has the potential for some of the most fun in the Odyssey expansion. It really helps capture the feel of being all the same crew on a ship, and I think for that reason was selected in the video of gameplay that was featured before the Alpha was released. That being said, I have experienced a game design decision that makes physical multi-crew much more hassle than it's worth:

Please consider allowing team mates in physical multicrew to respawn in the ship that they last disembarked from, namely the ship they all arrived in together. The viability of flying out to a far settlement only to have a teammate respawn at a far away station creates a massive time sink just to get the team back together again. I have experienced this multiple times in the Alpha, and it always boils down to it being easier to all fly separate ships. The spirit of the Odyssey expansion, namely creating opportunities for more collective play, gets sidelined by the current respawn mechanic. The Tele-presence of the current multicrew eliminates all waiting and facilities fast and fun gameplay. A similar set up for teammates in physical multicrew would go a long way in reaching the stated goal of the expansion and bringing physical multicrew to its fullest potential.
 
Figured I'd do one cohesive feedback before this wraps up. Going to try to keep the feedback/impressions as brief as possible as the details on most of this have been done to death (this is a lie; I'm terrible at brevity).

Planet Tech/Atmospheres:

From what we can see of it? Awesome. The only thing wrong is we can't see the finished product yet.

The UI

Visually speaking? Quite nice, a good modernization.

Functionally? Awful. Too buried and multilayered, many important elements from any system (galaxy map, shipyard, etc) missing. If this goes live and gets pushed to Horizons, it's going to be a feedback bloodbath. Unless huge improvements have been made on this, releasing as is seems like a misstep.

Exploration:

The Exobiology mechanic was a meme. Nothing of value lost there. That said, I hope a replacement is made (that makes sense for the gameplay and isn't overly time consuming for the payback).

The "Armstrong" moment: I too remember seeing the footage of when Collins beamed Armstrong to the Moon's surface after the Lunar Module's autolander picked the rockiest patch it could find and violently slammed itself into them until they submitted. Seriously though guys I hope some ramps are in the works or something.

On the note of the above, there are some related scale issues with models that are going to be a bad look if the game goes live with them. For example, a ramp on the Cutter so large the SRV would take 40% damage trying to climb up it. Oh yea, please make the SRV not suck at traversing mildly bumping terrain. It has one job.

Combat:

If this was an E3 demo for it in 2019, I'd be like "Okay, neat, this has potential." It's not. It's not bad, it's just... not much of anything, other than dated mechanics and small scale. I guess if you build up from this (significantly!) it could be all right, but there's so much it needs -- better objective play, less bullet spongey mechanics, more / more interesting weapon types, some sort of consideration of balance towards the ship mechanics... the list just goes on and on here.

Engineering:

"Oh no, not this sith again." -- Not only is it an absolutely horrendous grind, the power scaling of it is somehow even more absurd than the power scaling of ships. This is going to be the one sentence in this entire feedback I give special text because it cannot be stressed enough: excessive grind is not a replacement for depth or content.

Other Foot-based activities:


I was sort of jamming on the salvage based, etc gameplay and honestly I hope we see more of that. Makes up for the bland FPS gameplay a bit.

The "Social" Experience:

In most games, teabagging is considered an insult or flex. Here, it's all we can do. It wouldn't take much, but some very basic emotes (wave, o7) would go a long way. Overall, it feels rather odd to add 'social hubs' to the game, and then give exactly no social functionality to them.

I hope the copypasta stations are improved over time in terms of variety. Likewise, it'd be nice if some functionality were added to FC's.

Finally, multi-crew (this time of the ground variety) feels like an afterthought; a feature that was abandoned before it was even released. See the numerous issues regarding such, like respawning.

Final Impressions:

As usual, Elite is an amazing work of art, from the weird alien plants to the planet gen tech and atmospheres, to simple things like the sound design and music at the bars. However, it sometimes struggles at being a game, and several aspects of what we got to sample in the Alpha fall flat in this regard.

I'm certainly enjoying it for myself in my own way, and as usual it feels like there's so much potential there -- at this point, I'm just not sure I couldn't recommend it to someone not already invested in Elite at the listed price. Here's to hoping that the release changes this; for now, there are a lot of unresolved questions about the direction being taken for the bulk of the content.
 
Lasers do nothing to unshielded targets, and require an entire freaking clip to kill. Vice versa, projectile weapons do very little to shielded targets. The time to kill/ammunition required is totally absurd. It makes perfect sense for lasers to be BETTER at taking down shields, and kinetic weapons to be better at unshielded targets, but both should still be effective, and they are not.
This please ^^^. The constant weapon switcheroo and the bullet sponges are IMO the worst part of Odyssey.
 
Can I please have a Maintenance suit that is equipped with a squeegee and paint sprayer?
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Please keep at least some species overlap as some overlap is realistic and just makes the places that much more interesting. Sure, not necessarily the whole set in one spot, but a few out of several would be nice. In fact, having only one species in a spot makes it feel cultivated rather than natural.
 
Figured I'd do one cohesive feedback before this wraps up. Going to try to keep the feedback/impressions as brief as possible as the details on most of this have been done to death (this is a lie; I'm terrible at brevity).

Planet Tech/Atmospheres:

From what we can see of it? Awesome. The only thing wrong is we can't see the finished product yet.

The UI

Visually speaking? Quite nice, a good modernization.

Functionally? Awful. Too buried and multilayered, many important elements from any system (galaxy map, shipyard, etc) missing. If this goes live and gets pushed to Horizons, it's going to be a feedback bloodbath. Unless huge improvements have been made on this, releasing as is seems like a misstep.

Exploration:

The Exobiology mechanic was a meme. Nothing of value lost there. That said, I hope a replacement is made (that makes sense for the gameplay and isn't overly time consuming for the payback).

The "Armstrong" moment: I too remember seeing the footage of when Collins beamed Armstrong to the Moon's surface after the Lunar Module's autolander picked the rockiest patch it could find and violently slammed itself into them until they submitted. Seriously though guys I hope some ramps are in the works or something.

On the note of the above, there are some related scale issues with models that are going to be a bad look if the game goes live with them. For example, a ramp on the Cutter so large the SRV would take 40% damage trying to climb up it. Oh yea, please make the SRV not suck at traversing mildly bumping terrain. It has one job.

Combat:

If this was an E3 demo for it in 2019, I'd be like "Okay, neat, this has potential." It's not. It's not bad, it's just... not much of anything, other than dated mechanics and small scale. I guess if you build up from this (significantly!) it could be all right, but there's so much it needs -- better objective play, less bullet spongey mechanics, more / more interesting weapon types, some sort of consideration of balance towards the ship mechanics... the list just goes on and on here.

Engineering:

"Oh no, not this sith again." -- Not only is it an absolutely horrendous grind, the power scaling of it is somehow even more absurd than the power scaling of ships. This is going to be the one sentence in this entire feedback I give special text because it cannot be stressed enough: excessive grind is not a replacement for depth or content.

Other Foot-based activities:


I was sort of jamming on the salvage based, etc gameplay and honestly I hope we see more of that. Makes up for the bland FPS gameplay a bit.

The "Social" Experience:

In most games, teabagging is considered an insult or flex. Here, it's all we can do. It wouldn't take much, but some very basic emotes (wave, o7) would go a long way. Overall, it feels rather odd to add 'social hubs' to the game, and then give exactly no social functionality to them.

I hope the copypasta stations are improved over time in terms of variety. Likewise, it'd be nice if some functionality were added to FC's.

Finally, multi-crew (this time of the ground variety) feels like an afterthought; a feature that was abandoned before it was even released. See the numerous issues regarding such, like respawning.

Final Impressions:

As usual, Elite is an amazing work of art, from the weird alien plants to the planet gen tech and atmospheres, to simple things like the sound design and music at the bars. However, it sometimes struggles at being a game, and several aspects of what we got to sample in the Alpha fall flat in this regard.

I'm certainly enjoying it for myself in my own way, and as usual it feels like there's so much potential there -- at this point, I'm just not sure I couldn't recommend it to someone not already invested in Elite at the listed price. Here's to hoping that the release changes this; for now, there are a lot of unresolved questions about the direction being taken for the bulk of the content.
Good summary. I agree whole heartedly on the 'Social Experience' point. They've spend time and money creating the 'hubs' and all things we can do there could be done off a list like nomal stations. I particulally dislike CMDRs runnimg around like dogs on heat. If it's supposed to have same 'realism', make it so.
 
.... SRV material gathering is SO bad on Odyssey because of huge swathes of practically impassable boulder fields that SWAPPING out to 'Horizons' to get the job done will be the 'Next' 'Board-Swapping' meta in ED
 
Something changed with the damage taken when landing. I land pretty cautiously on planet surfaces. This week I landed and despite having a "blue" alignment indicator, and lowering very carefully on a low-g planet, I lost my shields and 44% of my hull very quickly and couldn't land. WTH? So I popped into camera suite and looked at what was up. There was nothing under my Krait Phantom that would obstruct landing. After the shields recharged, in camera suite mode, I tried landing again and the left rear landing foot sparked inexplicably and the ship wouldn't land and shields took damage. A scraped landing strut should not damage my shields NOR hull. Period. Again, I was properly aligned for landing. But to lose my shields and 44% hull for no reason is quite excessive and unnecessary. I've crashed in horizons on a >2g planet and only lost ~30% hull and shields. That was reasonable, IMHO.

Please:
  • ensure damage taken when landing is legitimate
  • ensure damage taken when landing is fair

Otherwise solo long-range exploration will be very negatively impacted (particularly with no fleet carrier).

Thanks!

Update, I just blew up trying to land. Same thing -- no obvious obstruction. Just kaboom. Seems to be worse on a steep incline.

Large invisible stones are often found on planets
 
My impressions and thoughts on Odyssey (and ED in general) based on the “alpha”


The positives

  • The graphic upgrade looks good, and the new planet tech is overall an improvement. The surfaces now look much better than they did. Very nice.
  • The ability to finally being able to walk around on the surface of a planet or moon is welcome.
… and…. That was it really. … Sorry.



The negatives / bad

Stations and settlements

  • The Station Interiors are generic “Social Spaces” without the "Social" component. Basically, they are 3D user interfaces empty of content and empty of anything meaningful to them.
  • “Teabagging” is in every other game considered an insult. Having this as the only way to communicate with other cmdrs is not good.
  • Making the bartender the menu for material trading for the new engineering materials is a poor decision and feels completely out of place. It should have been a hardware store. That would have made sense. But instead Fdev choose the bartender (the role for a bartender is to serves beverage and food) behind the bar desk… How can any in Fdev consider this a good decision?
  • Fdev did earlier speak of stations as "social hubs". That is not going to happen if Frontier don't bother to develope tools and features that makes it possible for cmdrs to be social.


Frontline / Combat Zones in foot in settlements

  • The expectations for on foot combat in EDO was very low, but turned out to be not bad. Which was a nice surprise. But that does not make combat and CZs on foot in EDO good. It feels like a FPS game from 2010 or older.
  • CZs in settlements are basically a simplistic version of capture the flag from Battlefield 2.
  • The CZs feels more like taking part in a tournament of paintball than taking part in a battle/fight over a settlement.
  • The decision to use the vulture as dropship instead of the obvious candidate the Federal Dropship is an extremely poor decision. If you didn’t consider any of the small ships suitable for this role, you should have designed a brand new small ship for the role. This is bad. (The Vulture is considered a pure combat ship by the community.)

In short: Unimaginative and simplistic.



Exobiology and exploration

  • The fade to black while disembarking and embarking the ship/SRV by a blue zone is atrocious. The more I leave and enter my ship, the more annoyed and irritated I get that Fdev considered this to be a better solution than a proper gangway/ladder and then interact with a door/hatch. Another extremely poor decision that is just plain wrong. Period.
  • The "Armstrong Moment" is non-existent and the marketing around it is misleading and disingenuous. It is a lie.
  • Exo-biology feels very unrewarding. Even if the credit reward is increased substantially, it will feel unrewarding.
  • Having a whole rank just for point an click at plants that are going to be the same no matter where you are in the galaxy, is a joke. If this is it, just merge it with the exploration rank.


Some general impressions and thoughts about the Odyssey update (and ED in general) based on the “alpha”

  • The settlement gameplay is atmospheric at first, but gets shallow fast. There isn’t much to settlements beyond doing that one thing for a mission and/or loot materials for engineering. Most likely settlements will be seen as places to loot for engineering materials, and little else.
  • The decision not to do ship interiors and make it possible for cmdrs to walk around inside the ships now appears to be the worst decision Fdev have made for the Odyssey update. The argument against interiors that have been repeated endlessly was that there was no gameplay/content for it. That is the wrong way to go about it. The process should have been: Let’s do ship interiors and figure out what content and gameplay loops we can develop which will involve ship interiors. Unfortunately, Fdev have chosen not to develop something that was asked for and would have added value to the game for the player.
  • Why does Fdev consider punitive elements/features to be essential to everything they design, instead of making it rewarding? Take the despised mini-game for genetic-sampling as an example. A pointless mini-game that had nothing to do with the task at hand and did not reward the player in any way, but sure it did punish you if you failed the QTE…
  • The new UI may look good, but offers less functionality and less information for the player. More submenus with submenus and more clicking for the sake of clicking. Valuable information is often hidden behind submenus and more clicks. This is a step backwards and a downgrade from the UI we now have in Horizons. Why on earth reinventing the wheel? Elite Dangerous already had a good UI, Fdev only had to expand and improve on what you had. Instead Fdev wasted time and resources creating a new UI for no reason.
  • What Fdev prioritizes is questionable. Instead of expanding on the good aspects of ED and improving the product they have on hand, they choose to spend their time and resources on doubling down on the worst aspects of the game. As an example, material gathering for engineering, which is universally despised by the players of ED. Or developing features that adds no value to the game for the player; new UIs for no reasons, UI wheels, pointless mini-games, features that do not fit the context they are in, etc…


The BAD and UGLY

  • Engineering and material gathering for engineering. Suits and weapons are going to be upgradable by engineering with materials collected that can only be used for that. Another horrible grind is introduced. Back to Fdevs love for preferring the game to be repetetive and punitive instead of meaningful and rewarding gameplay.
  • Instead of spending their time to develop rewarding gameplay and interesting content, Frontier Development doubles down on the WORST aspect of Elite Dangerous. Engineering and the material gathering for engineering. This was unfortunately expected, but nonetheless disappointing to see that this is the only “gameplay” Fdev consider worth developing.


This post is overall negative because I think Odysseys as presented with the “alpha” seems to be lackluster and unimaginative. Too many missed opportunities.

For a player like me who still enjoys flying around in the galaxy of Elite Dangerous, Odysseys is going to add more variation to my gameplay. I welcome that and I am probably going to enjoy it. But I can not on my good conscience recommend Elite Dangerous to players who might be interested in getting into ED or coming back to ED. It offers too little, and what it offers is too barebone and too much in Odyssey suffers heavily from what can only be considered poor decision making or just not having thought things through.

This is based on what I have seen and experienced with the test version for the upcoming Odyssey update called "alpha".
 
Might just be my preception, but ship-to-ship combat with NPC's feels harder and their ships move faster.

EDIT Downloading data from data ports feels like it uses a 56k modem plugged into a landline. Sounds a bit like an accoustic coupler :D
 
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Make music coming from various sources in stations/outposts a separate option from the overall game music option, this has been rolled into the game music volume/mute slider in audio settings in phase 4, forcing you to have the normal game music everywhere if you want bar music.
 
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