"Phoenix" (Pioneer Space Sim derivate)
- Thread starter Gernot
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No joke i thought once about, not exactly galaxians but to create a set of ships which look like, something complete different as a spaceship in the common sense.
I guess one model which i started should still exist which is based on a "galaga" or in other words "musca domestica" the common fly. I discarded the idea because it would be again a lot of work to create a whole set.
This is what i like in Pioneer it would allow to mod it to something different, sure the gameplay is the same only the appearance and the environment changes, that's a further reason why i discarded it or delayed it at least.
Recently i can't find it but i know i stumbled over the model when i gathered and compared my old ship models for "Phoenix".
Probably you remeber it, many years ago i postet the wip on ssc.
No galaxian
This alien is a version of the attackers in "Demon Attack" which is a clone of "Phoenix" (the arcade shooter) in a farther sense, another gift i received from the dudes at Atari-Age. I just said that i was addicted to space shooters and always missed this shooter and prompt i received the game.
"Demon Attack" isn't "Phoenix" but the main elements are the same, bird like attackers (with exclusion of this car looking one) and a mothership as final level.
The game is quite good for the age it's known to be the best space shooter for the inty, intellivision themself haven't had real good space shooters, The "Invaders" clone is to "fat" and they are quite easy and boring with exception of "Astrosmash" which is also to easy and starts to get challanging after 2h of playing (says he who is in one of the top ten scorers in this game) and "Star Strike" which i liked much but it can't be seen as a space shooter of this type it's in quasi 3D. "Imagic" had this not so good idea to overload the games with options, options for different skills and gameplay 1, 1&2, 1 vs 2, it didn't makes a game better imo. Together with the skills for each option you have to much options to choose from.
The attackers are sweet.
I guess one model which i started should still exist which is based on a "galaga" or in other words "musca domestica" the common fly. I discarded the idea because it would be again a lot of work to create a whole set.
This is what i like in Pioneer it would allow to mod it to something different, sure the gameplay is the same only the appearance and the environment changes, that's a further reason why i discarded it or delayed it at least.
Recently i can't find it but i know i stumbled over the model when i gathered and compared my old ship models for "Phoenix".
Probably you remeber it, many years ago i postet the wip on ssc.
No galaxian
This alien is a version of the attackers in "Demon Attack" which is a clone of "Phoenix" (the arcade shooter) in a farther sense, another gift i received from the dudes at Atari-Age. I just said that i was addicted to space shooters and always missed this shooter and prompt i received the game.
"Demon Attack" isn't "Phoenix" but the main elements are the same, bird like attackers (with exclusion of this car looking one) and a mothership as final level.
The game is quite good for the age it's known to be the best space shooter for the inty, intellivision themself haven't had real good space shooters, The "Invaders" clone is to "fat" and they are quite easy and boring with exception of "Astrosmash" which is also to easy and starts to get challanging after 2h of playing (says he who is in one of the top ten scorers in this game) and "Star Strike" which i liked much but it can't be seen as a space shooter of this type it's in quasi 3D. "Imagic" had this not so good idea to overload the games with options, options for different skills and gameplay 1, 1&2, 1 vs 2, it didn't makes a game better imo. Together with the skills for each option you have to much options to choose from.
The attackers are sweet.
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I remember Phoenix and those motherships well Gernot! Must have put all my pocket money into those damn arcade machines back in the day. Defender tho will always be my favorite of that era. So fast it was and the lasers were very cool. If you have an Amiga Emulator have a look out for a shareware game called Oblivion, a great Defender clone. Unfortunately my reactions are not what they used to be it's maybe too fast for me to cope with anymore. 
Defender is a hard game in my opinion, "Chuck" played it asleep but to most it's hard, he's an exclusion a cards counter he played any game dreamlike.
Spent one nickel and played for 3hours until he was bored (not yet game over).
He always claimed "it's easy gernot the attack waves appear always by the same scheme", ja ja for you it's easy damned cards counter!
I liked the game and of course i remember oblivion but i never was good in it, like for most games or ?
No we won't get younger - never mind.
I wouldn't claim the kids of today aren't tactile less capeable, but Geraldine those guys are clumsy when it comes to '80s shoot 'em ups, not all but many.
Spent one nickel and played for 3hours until he was bored (not yet game over).
He always claimed "it's easy gernot the attack waves appear always by the same scheme", ja ja for you it's easy damned cards counter!
I liked the game and of course i remember oblivion but i never was good in it, like for most games
or ?No we won't get younger - never mind.
I wouldn't claim the kids of today aren't tactile less capeable, but Geraldine those guys are clumsy when it comes to '80s shoot 'em ups, not all but many.
It's also boring to them, but i guess i wrote you "Phil" my best buddy who claimed a couple of years ago he would never play such old rubbish leaned out the SNES from me because recently he has no console to play anymore, so the SNES is still good enough. What difference 3years can be if you are 30 or less aged. He likes it because it reminds him of his childhood when his dad was still alive, his dad is like a god to him, you know he's an orphan lost first his mother to cancer and then his father and grew up in an orphanage. His dad was a plummer, a body builder and a hobby programmer, he's really god to him and we are such close friends because i remind him of his dad even if i'm no body builder, this is his "hobby". He's gettin' lazy and fat and pumps only in when he's in prison like right now for the n-th time, that's sad and it's very hard to convince him of sports or anything where you have to subordinate, that won't work with Phil. It could be something he likes but if that is organized then it's not good. Like last summer when i came up with some chalk and we colorized the railroad station in Wattwil. That's illegal and so it's good to him, but when i asked him if we shouldn't travel to the city and ask for permission he didn't liked to, grrrr.... it could have been a big fun i guess, two rebel artist in St. Gallen.
One dark and satirical and the other bright and positive.
However the SNES remindet him of his childhood when all was still good and he was a smiling boy driving around in his motor-cart which was also made by his dad for him. The orphanage he grew up was a bad place for children due to the job of my mother i had close friends from an orphanage but they wasn't abused for work like he was. Besides "Phil" is very neat, one wouldn't guess if one sees him, an ex hooligan, he could never live in such a chaos like i do. Almost like a mother
But never tell him that he's got his female sides, never!
I'm a typical stinking man, ahh... not to long ago he gave me compliments and said: "you are a real man, i mean different to me a real man", when he's in nirvana cause of beer then he turns to a different person, either ranting and sometimes even brutal or as mild as a lamb.
I love him Geraldine, foremost i love his sense for justice which is a little to uncontrolled and that's why he runs often into problems which end in prison.
He first shoots and then asks.
And he can't stand if i call him "Thor" but he is, he just don't know it yet.
Even not if i try to explain him that this is to me an archetypus of man and not exactly a god, but godlike.
That's how i see humans, i see them in the classic roles of our mythologies, because it's repetive you always meet the same types of humans.
And he hates if i put on my "mystic smile".
And in despite of that this is interpreted as faschism i see also that they have the same bodies and faces.
But i don't judge, it appears just like that to me.
One dark and satirical and the other bright and positive.
However the SNES remindet him of his childhood when all was still good and he was a smiling boy driving around in his motor-cart which was also made by his dad for him. The orphanage he grew up was a bad place for children due to the job of my mother i had close friends from an orphanage but they wasn't abused for work like he was. Besides "Phil" is very neat, one wouldn't guess if one sees him, an ex hooligan, he could never live in such a chaos like i do. Almost like a mother
But never tell him that he's got his female sides, never!
I'm a typical stinking man, ahh... not to long ago he gave me compliments and said: "you are a real man, i mean different to me a real man", when he's in nirvana cause of beer then he turns to a different person, either ranting and sometimes even brutal or as mild as a lamb.
I love him Geraldine, foremost i love his sense for justice which is a little to uncontrolled and that's why he runs often into problems which end in prison.
He first shoots and then asks.
And he can't stand if i call him "Thor" but he is, he just don't know it yet.
Even not if i try to explain him that this is to me an archetypus of man and not exactly a god, but godlike.
That's how i see humans, i see them in the classic roles of our mythologies, because it's repetive you always meet the same types of humans.
And he hates if i put on my "mystic smile".
And in despite of that this is interpreted as faschism i see also that they have the same bodies and faces.
But i don't judge, it appears just like that to me.
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This is all amazing work!
Just downloaded everything - spent a while listening to your mods selection tho - love your music bro! I was a 90's hardcore raver; UK breakbeat hardcore is my blood, everything from happy harcore (up to around 1998) to D&B (from ~1993 to present) - your sounds are professional and authentic mate, maximum respect!
Will have a play with Phoenix over the w/e (does it have laser combat? Please tell me it's gonna have beam weapons!?)
#excited
Just downloaded everything - spent a while listening to your mods selection tho - love your music bro! I was a 90's hardcore raver; UK breakbeat hardcore is my blood, everything from happy harcore (up to around 1998) to D&B (from ~1993 to present) - your sounds are professional and authentic mate, maximum respect!
Will have a play with Phoenix over the w/e (does it have laser combat? Please tell me it's gonna have beam weapons!?)
#excited
Hi Boulder
First - no
I guess there will never be beam weapons in "Pioneer" (or Phoenix).
Sure you can Dogfight, to just engage a fight to see how it is to fight (brutal) you can press [CTRL]+[F12] this will spawn an "Interceptor" (police version) close to you.
(for the FFE MOD it's replaced with "Viper". Buy an "ASP" if the FFE MOD is active or a "Cyrapi" or "Draco" and fit a 10MW weapon and at least 5 shields, you should be able to win against the spawned police vessel it has only a 1MW weapon mounted)
The Reason why (first of all i'm no coder) is that Tom Morton never thought of beam weapons for Pioneer, to implement them could be impossible.
I see a big problem with the field of view in Pioneer, unlike for FE2/FFE it's a "bended" non-isometric perspective which would mean the beams would make a "curve" (you can notice this already with the plasma projectiles). Further if you have beam wepons your enemy will have to and i strongly assume they get unbeatable.
The AI pilots are quite hard since the behave has been altered since "alpha 9" release, i assume that you won't stand a chance with beam weapons it's already very hard and if the AI can point on you and using beam weapons you will be even faster burned to ashes (i have one single victory i've made myself since this change).
Unlike FE2 you can hire a co-pilot and depending on his capabilities your chances to win will be better, if your pilot is good in intercepting a ship you can depend on him to shoot a enemy down, he usually does that better as you. Overall i don't like it to be that hard and if possible i will change this. "Phoenix" is somewhat less hard as "Pioneer" because the specs are quite low this gives you better chances if you have an agile ship.
As a hint, turn off your engines and fly manually, accelerate and decelerate as well as over to left or right so the AI can't point on you well.
Be sure to be in manual flight mode when you turn your ship around in this manner you can flip your ship on a spot (that's how i outsmarted the AI but since "alpha 9" the AI uses this tactic too).
The problem with the beam weapons is also bound to how it's solved in "Pioneer" the plasma projectiles are a bunch of "blobs" each blob has a certain mass and when this mass hits you the impact is what mass effects on your hull, in this way you can hit or graze. Dunno if this could be solved with a sort of beam, that would be an endless row of "blobs" but no real beam at all.
The plasma projectiles are quite slow compared to the beam or pulse lasers in FE2 i assume it would look very funny if i would let the lasers spill endless rows of blobs to have something like a beam.
I can't make any promises, if that would be to solve i assume the dev team of Pioneer would have solved it already since this is one of the oldest requests for "Pioneer": "can i have beam weapons?"
---
To the music.
Thanks the whole bunch are Amiga Soundtracker or MED modules, i've uploaded what i have on my notebook to my onedrive (89MB, 277 modules):
Amiga Soundtracker Modules
Some prob. fail, some play only on the amiga in the right manner, some are very cheap.
You can play them back using WinAmp or the MOD plug player with which i converted the modules.
Open MPT
(Dunno if i can ever achieve this but i would like soundteracker and midi music for "Phoenix" open mpt is a library which can be used for such, it would suit the game and they use very little space).
---
Keep in mind that this is a WIP, the game hasn't a balanced economy yet (from my pov) and the "FFE MOD" First Encounters ships aren't improved yet, i noticed large ships are quite clumsy.
Assumed you would like to have all ships together in "Phoenix" you would have to extract the "lmrmodels" as well as the "ships" folder from the mod.
remove all dummy files from "ships" (those with 0 bytes) and create a new zip file from them.
The FFE mod changes a lot of things and didn't only adds ships it replaces all of them resp. disables the standard ones.
The amount of ships gets very large due to this and it will prob. take a long time to load them if you start the game (especially if the model cache must be rebuild).
First - no
I guess there will never be beam weapons in "Pioneer" (or Phoenix).
Sure you can Dogfight, to just engage a fight to see how it is to fight (brutal) you can press [CTRL]+[F12] this will spawn an "Interceptor" (police version) close to you.
(for the FFE MOD it's replaced with "Viper". Buy an "ASP" if the FFE MOD is active or a "Cyrapi" or "Draco" and fit a 10MW weapon and at least 5 shields, you should be able to win against the spawned police vessel it has only a 1MW weapon mounted)
The Reason why (first of all i'm no coder) is that Tom Morton never thought of beam weapons for Pioneer, to implement them could be impossible.
I see a big problem with the field of view in Pioneer, unlike for FE2/FFE it's a "bended" non-isometric perspective which would mean the beams would make a "curve" (you can notice this already with the plasma projectiles). Further if you have beam wepons your enemy will have to and i strongly assume they get unbeatable.
The AI pilots are quite hard since the behave has been altered since "alpha 9" release, i assume that you won't stand a chance with beam weapons it's already very hard and if the AI can point on you and using beam weapons you will be even faster burned to ashes (i have one single victory i've made myself since this change).
Unlike FE2 you can hire a co-pilot and depending on his capabilities your chances to win will be better, if your pilot is good in intercepting a ship you can depend on him to shoot a enemy down, he usually does that better as you. Overall i don't like it to be that hard and if possible i will change this. "Phoenix" is somewhat less hard as "Pioneer" because the specs are quite low this gives you better chances if you have an agile ship.
As a hint, turn off your engines and fly manually, accelerate and decelerate as well as over to left or right so the AI can't point on you well.
Be sure to be in manual flight mode when you turn your ship around in this manner you can flip your ship on a spot (that's how i outsmarted the AI but since "alpha 9" the AI uses this tactic too).
The problem with the beam weapons is also bound to how it's solved in "Pioneer" the plasma projectiles are a bunch of "blobs" each blob has a certain mass and when this mass hits you the impact is what mass effects on your hull, in this way you can hit or graze. Dunno if this could be solved with a sort of beam, that would be an endless row of "blobs" but no real beam at all.
The plasma projectiles are quite slow compared to the beam or pulse lasers in FE2 i assume it would look very funny if i would let the lasers spill endless rows of blobs to have something like a beam.
I can't make any promises, if that would be to solve i assume the dev team of Pioneer would have solved it already since this is one of the oldest requests for "Pioneer": "can i have beam weapons?"
---
To the music.
Thanks the whole bunch are Amiga Soundtracker or MED modules, i've uploaded what i have on my notebook to my onedrive (89MB, 277 modules):
Amiga Soundtracker Modules
Some prob. fail, some play only on the amiga in the right manner, some are very cheap.
You can play them back using WinAmp or the MOD plug player with which i converted the modules.
Open MPT
(Dunno if i can ever achieve this but i would like soundteracker and midi music for "Phoenix" open mpt is a library which can be used for such, it would suit the game and they use very little space).
---
Keep in mind that this is a WIP, the game hasn't a balanced economy yet (from my pov) and the "FFE MOD" First Encounters ships aren't improved yet, i noticed large ships are quite clumsy.
Assumed you would like to have all ships together in "Phoenix" you would have to extract the "lmrmodels" as well as the "ships" folder from the mod.
remove all dummy files from "ships" (those with 0 bytes) and create a new zip file from them.
The FFE mod changes a lot of things and didn't only adds ships it replaces all of them resp. disables the standard ones.
The amount of ships gets very large due to this and it will prob. take a long time to load them if you start the game (especially if the model cache must be rebuild).
I know Fluffy Freak was looking at some code for beam lasers Gernot. You can find the post here on the Pioneer Forum. But I don't know what became of it as the link to the Git Hub repository is down.
Thanks Gernot - i already have ModPlug Tracker (used to make Octamed modules myself, tho not as good as yours! MPT is great for re-mixing them and adding VST effects etc.)
I thought i read in the latest patch notes for Pioneer that beam weapons are back in, though i'm really struggling to play it with the new GUI and HUD changes (i much prefer your take on the classic FE2/FFE-style UI - nice, clean and intuitive). Thanks for all the tips, and i'll be keeping tabs on any developments.. For a one-man team though you've done incredible work already! Really the only 'new' Elite-alike truly keeping the spirit alive, for me.. XXX
I thought i read in the latest patch notes for Pioneer that beam weapons are back in, though i'm really struggling to play it with the new GUI and HUD changes (i much prefer your take on the classic FE2/FFE-style UI - nice, clean and intuitive). Thanks for all the tips, and i'll be keeping tabs on any developments.. For a one-man team though you've done incredible work already! Really the only 'new' Elite-alike truly keeping the spirit alive, for me.. XXX
Just found this. Too much RL to play much (of anything) right now, but good first impressions. Think I prefer this to vanilla Pioneer. Thanks much for doing this.
Hey, thanks Mr. Butler, real life is a struggle, i lost again my machine and much i created (fortunately Phoenix is mostly scripted thus i didn't lost anything because project and release equals). Now you know one reason why i was off for a little while until i bought me a new laptop which is a little better as the previous but still to weak to play E4. Another quite usual reason is summer which always keeps me away from working on my projects because i have (i have!) to meet with my buddies who already miss me when i don't response for a few days (that is because the youngsters start to accept me as a sort of streetworker, which is fine for me and better as to be payed for because i'm one of the social outcasts like themself and this puts us on the same level, due to this i'm much more trusted). Lost is the proper term, because stupid me i really lost it on a railroad station. Money is still to sparse to buy cloud space or a backup drive (which is recently in range). But annoying enough that i lost my blender projects for FFED3D and tons of pictures and textures, also my old XP machine quit service and has blown out the blue smoke of death (i first assumed it's caused by the power supply but using a different one didn't helped it's gone for good). But i won't keep me from going on, it's just not winter yet
Time i would have a lot but mostly i spend it for useless things like drinking a lot of beer (which isn't quite true at home i don't drink - only when i'm outdoors, but this is obvious often in summer).
However, now you folks know why i didn't responded to anything, not here or anywhere else in web. I'm fine but distracted.
The influence is such positive that one of the dudes starts to work for a computer recycler/refurbisher which surprised me and even more all of the rest who always said that he's just lazy - no he isn't he just don't likes anything else as IT. He started an education years ago in this direction but quit soon - never ask me why, i simply guess 16 is to young for nowadays, he's now 23 and much more serious. He respects me much even if one could guess not because he's rarely serious in talking and annoys my best buddy a lot with his behave and his jumping from topic to topic, but i can understand him well maybe better as anyone else also i'm proud that i could convince him that his therapeuts was simply idiots and never could understand what he is and that what they claimed what he is isn't an inability it's in fact to see as an advantage to others. ADHD, Asperger, bipolar whatever , they only break those girls and guys out and are far less intelligent and flexible in mind as them.
We old dudes didn't knew all of this and i told already once that i had a buddy in school who is an autistic for real but he went to school with us and wasn't treated special so he is as "normal" as us, special treatment is , he learned to handle us and we learned to handle him.
Time i would have a lot but mostly i spend it for useless things like drinking a lot of beer (which isn't quite true at home i don't drink - only when i'm outdoors, but this is obvious often in summer).
However, now you folks know why i didn't responded to anything, not here or anywhere else in web. I'm fine but distracted.
The influence is such positive that one of the dudes starts to work for a computer recycler/refurbisher which surprised me and even more all of the rest who always said that he's just lazy - no he isn't he just don't likes anything else as IT. He started an education years ago in this direction but quit soon - never ask me why, i simply guess 16 is to young for nowadays, he's now 23 and much more serious. He respects me much even if one could guess not because he's rarely serious in talking and annoys my best buddy a lot with his behave and his jumping from topic to topic, but i can understand him well maybe better as anyone else also i'm proud that i could convince him that his therapeuts was simply idiots and never could understand what he is and that what they claimed what he is isn't an inability it's in fact to see as an advantage to others. ADHD, Asperger, bipolar whatever , they only break those girls and guys out and are far less intelligent and flexible in mind as them.
We old dudes didn't knew all of this and i told already once that i had a buddy in school who is an autistic for real but he went to school with us and wasn't treated special so he is as "normal" as us, special treatment is , he learned to handle us and we learned to handle him.
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I am glad to find a different skinning / colouring for the old SAKER-III.
Will you be happy, please, to tell me where to find this version of the SAKER model, and can I apply to FFED3D, or under -AJ mod, or how?
I am still new, but I am developing a CURIOSITY and a TASTE for maybe playing with 3D modelling - painting, colouring, TEXTURE design..
Will you give me some TIPS to get started? Some Free utilities to use, to get started, maybe? (Although I have an old PhotoShop also; or can use GiMP?)
Thank you; your Phoenix work looks curious... PErhaps some time I will try it and give some feedback...
How about designing and adding a player ship of / based on the Galaxian design? =D
Not like Trek Enterprise, maybe a bit more like Star Wars' Y-Wing, but perhaps some kind of use, such as 2 cargo pods on the sides, engine section in the middle (rear centre main drive / thruster) and forward cabin with nose-mounted weapon(s)...??? Just a thought.
It's one year "anniversary" (just passed) from the above post.
I just wondered if there are new links to new versions to download?
If not, I quote the post to make the download links easily available at the "new end" of the thread for today.