Pitch Roll and Acceleration for (nearly) Everyship.

Cliffson · Sep 11, 2015

Pitch Roll and Acceleration for (nearly) Everyship. (UPDATED for 1.5Beta)

{Disclaimer: These figures are intended for comparison and reference only. There is no substitute for hours in the cockpit finding out what your ship can and can't do. Clever use of FA-off and thrusters can achieve greater agility}

Thanks to the BETA I've been able to finally get round to testing the remainder of the ships, and also retesting some of the previous ones.

Taking on board comments in my previous thread I have included Acceleration statistics for Lateral thrusters now to give a picture of overall agility for each ship.

As before all testing is performed at thruster Optimal mass and and with 4 pips to engines. (Note peak performance is achieved at 50% of optimum mass with A rated thrusters see links for more information)

Results:

	Top Speed	Boost	Pitch 0 (S)	Pitch 50 (S)	Pitch 100 (S)	Roll 0 (S)	Roll 50 (S)	Roll 100 (S)	Fwd 0-100 (S)	Accel Fwd (MS-2)	Lat 0-100 (S)	Accel Lat (MS-2)	Back 0-100 (S)	Accel Back (MS-2)	0PiP speed Ratio	Yaw 50
iCutter	200	320	25.1	20.12	30.4	10.1	8.06	9	4.89	30.56	16.94	6.05	10.41	10.1	0.800
F.Corvette	200	260	16.1	12.8	18.67	6.09	4.93	5.45	6.07	20.28	10.58	10.1	10.6	10.12	0.500
CONDA	180	240	18.03	14.49	18.75	7.59	6.04	6.85	10.6	19.83	10.6	9.9	10.55	10.54	0.445
PYTHON	230	300	31.1	12.4	39.4	5.17	4.08	6.71	4.06	28.72	6.68	15.7	6	17.92	0.610
FDL	260	350	23.7	9.7	21.4	5.81	4.63	7.54	3.55	30.05	5.27	20.92	4.2	24.42	0.845	29.7
ORCA	300	380	28.87	14.5	35.2	8.35	6.6	8.21	3.8	29.1	5.12	19.55	4.46	25.03	0.665
CLIPPER	300	380	22.54	9.5	19.62	5.68	4.49	7.45	4.81	25.13	10.33	9.9	5.6	20.17	0.600
FGS	170	280	18	14.4	23.55	5.65	4.52	5.11	5.3	25	10.71	10.45	6.53	18.45	0.590
FAS	210	350	11.85	9.52	14.788	4.99	4.04	4.48	4.64	40.05	7.54	15.63	6.1	20.41	0.710
FDS	180	300	15	12	16.3	5.7	4.39	4.94	5	30.28	10.59	10	6.09	20	0.555
ASP	250	340	23.73	9.73	23.97	4.41	3.4	5.83	4.78	22.98	7.12	15.06	7.03	15.43	0.480
Vulture	210	338*	17.28	8.66	16.45	4.25	3.36	4.2	3.4	42.03	5.54	20.8	4.08	30.81	0.905
Asp Scout	220	300	15.02	9.22	14.8	4.3	3.38	5.5	3.73	34.48	5.48	22.3	5.49	20.72	0.500
Keelback	200	297*	33.32	13.4	43.27	4.6	3.54	4.08	5.63	20	7.02	15.92	7.1	15.25	0.450
Courier	280	380	23.7	9.6	22.7	5.1	4.11	6.76	3.01	59.19	4.66	24.95	4.1	31.41	0.785
DBE	260	335*	25.91	10.46	32.4	5	4.08	6.71	3.56	33.12	5.4	20.8	4.57	25.51	0.615
Cobra M4	200	300	30.06	12.12	38.03	5.06	4.03	6.68	4.34	26.88	7.03	15.48	5.57	20.5	0.5	36
DBS	280	376*	21.5	8.73	20.67	4.68	3.66	6.05	3.38	39.12	4.59	26.7	4.03	33.27	0.605
Viper Mk4	270	340	30	12.1	29.3	5.23	4.12	6.75	3.08	53.4	4.6	23.1	3.95	31.3	0.650
Cobra	280	400	22.57	9.17	27.04	4.59	3.71	6.05	3.59	33.86	5.45	20.96	4.56	26.26	0.500
VIPER	320	400	25.77	10.42	24.8	5.14	4.31	6.74	3.06	53.06	4.57	25.53	4.1	32.07	0.625
iEagle	300	398*	20	9.14	25	4.59	3.68	4.26	3.59	37.38	4.43	28.83	4.29	28.63	0.700
EAGLE	240	348*	16.07	7.42	19.72	3.9	3.21	3.602	3.23	43.89	3.9	33.03	3.95	30.33	0.750
T9	130	200	22.57	18	27.7	20.19	18.24	22.65	6.14	18.56	10.6	10.1	10.55	10.52	0.31
T7	180	300	32.7	16.5	26.85	7.59	5.98	6.9	5.69	21.5	6.82	16.4	7.26	15.29	0.33
T6	220	348*	30.26	12.21	39.2	4.76	3.75	4.08	5.52	20	6.99	15.625	7.05	15.5	0.41

Boost* figures are the highest boost achieved in practice due to speed bleeding out. Other figures are where a hard limit was clearly hit on boosting.

Pitch and Roll figures are seconds to complete 360 deg, results are averaged over several repeats. 0,50,100 refers to throttle % applied.

Acceleration figures for each direction give the 0-100 time and the peak acceleration measured as the time taken to go from 50-150 (or 100-200 on the faster ships) this is to highlight the spooling time effect of drives on different ships.

For the effects of Thruster rating and Optimal mass tuning see my previous thread:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=164931

Or this thread here for a formula and graphical approach :

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=182057
(also source for most of the 0Pip figures, NB this ratio is 100% speed only, boost is unaffected and rotation is affected differently on each ship)

Also to see the max you can get unmodded and get an idea for the weights see TrueSilver's thread:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...aw-for-Every-Ship-in-Game-Official-FDev-Stats

Enjoy!

Sire · Sep 11, 2015

Impressive indeed!

goemon · Sep 17, 2015

hm. with which kind of thrusters this (great!) table is referring to? class E at 50% optimal mass? there is something missing. because i can easily boost my dbs or cobra above the noted boost speed, and hold that speed by boosting repeat.

Cliffson · Sep 17, 2015

goemon said:
hm. with which kind of thrusters this (great!) table is referring to? class E at 50% optimal mass? there is something missing. because i can easily boost my dbs or cobra above the noted boost speed, and hold that speed by boosting repeat.

Everything is tested at optimum mass using whatever thruster/internals achieves this, since all thrusters act identically at thier optimum, mass thruster class/rating is irrelevant.

If you look at the info in the links you can then find your performance for you thruster/mass set up.

Kyle Brennan · Sep 17, 2015

Just a quick glance but they are not accurate. The cobra maxes out at 460m/s, chart says 400?

Cliffson · Sep 17, 2015

Kyle Brennan said:
Just a quick glance but they are not accurate. The cobra maxes out at 460m/s, chart says 400?

This is not maximum figures, optimum mass is a misnomer, 50% of optimum mass is the best performance. Cobra should be roughly 400*1.16 so around 464 theoretical maximum at 50% optimum mass A grade thrusters.

I've updated OP now with this information.

goemon · Sep 17, 2015

Cliffson said:
Everything is tested at optimum mass using whatever thruster/internals achieves this, since all thrusters act identically at thier optimum, mass thruster class/rating is irrelevant.

If you look at the info in the links you can then find your performance for you thruster/mass set up.

i took a look at those links before, and assume that the boost speed you noted down is a basic number, e.g. with A4 thrusters on a cobra it's 400 m/s + 16% (sound about right), that's why i was saying: there is missing something (a clarification) in the original post

- anyways, thanks for this great test!

Snarfbuckle · Sep 17, 2015

Cliffson said:
Results:

Top Speed Boost Pitch 0 (S) Pitch 50 (S) Pitch 100 (S) Roll 0 (S) Roll 50 (S) Roll 100 (S) Fwd 0-100 (S) Accel Fwd (MS-2) Lat 0-100 (S) Accel Lat (MS-2) Back 0-100 (S) Accel Back (MS-2)
CONDA 180 240 18.03 14.49 18.75 7.59 6.04 6.85 10.6 19.83 10.6 9.9 10.55 10.54
EAGLE 240 348* 16.07 7.42 19.72 3.9 3.21 3.602 3.23 43.89 3.9 33.03 3.95 30.33

Is it just me or is the CONDA incredible agilee in the pitch department?

For a ship with a maneuverability score of 2 it seems rather nimble

-SOVEREIGN- · Sep 17, 2015

Keeping the blue zone is even more important in a Python than I thought. Thanks for the work and sharing with us!

by the way: what does "Accel Fwd (MS-2)" mean?

- - - Updated - - -

Snarfbuckle said:
Is it just me or is the CONDA incredible agilee in the pitch department?

For a ship with a maneuverability score of 2 it seems rather nimble

No, that just means that if you don't keep the blue zone with your Eagle, you will turn like Conda (which surprisingly suffers far less than most ships from bad speed-management, the Federal ships also very forgiving). The "Pitch 50" is the most important of those though.

zimms · Sep 17, 2015

Exactely, in the blue zone the Eagle pitches about twice as fast.

Sayne · Sep 17, 2015

So at zero throttle and full throttle an Anaconda turns faster than all the Cobra tier ships, Asp tier ships except the Vulture (then only a little slower), and turns MUCH faster than Python or FDL.

Suffice to say that is completely ridiculous for something as huge as that, and explains why fighting an Elite one is so hard when they boost away and flip around on a dime -- because they literally turn faster than a fighter with a tiny fraction of its mass at full or zero throttle.

I've gotta ask if that is a bug or if it's working as intended.

Because, again, that's ridiculous.

Edit-- also massive, long and heavy Imperial Clippers turn better than Vipers in the blue zone. Come on, really?

M. Grey · Sep 17, 2015

Thanks, great work!

Janichsan · Sep 17, 2015

That's some comprehensive data. Good job!

Ian Skippy · Sep 17, 2015

Thanks, great job!

Mad Leo · Sep 17, 2015

Good work. Confirms that Courier has the best acceleration as I subjectively thought.

MS-2 is "metres per second per second" or ms^-2 I guess.

Cliffson · Sep 17, 2015

SOVEREIGN said:
Keeping the blue zone is even more important in a Python than I thought. Thanks for the work and sharing with us!

Yeah those 'stressed' turn speeds are awful, I'm assuming this is the product of the infamous 'python nerf' I keep hearing about?

by the way: what does "Accel Fwd (MS-2)" mean?

Mad Leo said:
MS-2 is "metres per second per second" or ms^-2 I guess.

Yes, quite right. I put it there to differentiate between FWD 0-100, which was a time in seconds measure for acceleration from stationary. And the Acceleration FWD measure which was an estimate of the peak acceleration once the engines were running.

Sayne said:
Snip + others comments

I agree some of the numbers look a bit suspect based on what you might expect, particularly the clipper. I'm hoping the 1.5 ships update will include some kind of balance pass.

Though You should also bear in mind that the lateral thrust on those ships are terrible and so while they can turn reasonably well they can't change direction of travel that well. Also with a Conda, most combat ships can go faster than it boosting without boosting themselves so can get behind it quickly, if the conda is constantly having to boost that means it's not got pips in weapons/sys so will take/deal less damage.

I'd be interested if anyone could develop effective tactics from this information like try to engage clippers at very low or high speeds where they don't have their turning advantage.

mbar · Sep 21, 2015

Sayne said:
So at zero throttle and full throttle an Anaconda turns faster than all the Cobra tier ships, Asp tier ships except the Vulture (then only a little slower), and turns MUCH faster than Python or FDL.

Suffice to say that is completely ridiculous for something as huge as that, and explains why fighting an Elite one is so hard when they boost away and flip around on a dime -- because they literally turn faster than a fighter with a tiny fraction of its mass at full or zero throttle.

I've gotta ask if that is a bug or if it's working as intended.

Because, again, that's ridiculous.

Edit-- also massive, long and heavy Imperial Clippers turn better than Vipers in the blue zone. Come on, really?

I've noted this just by feel. I have to feather the vipers throttle to get turning performance out of it while I've never really worried about pitch speed in an anaconda. It's these little hidden stats in games that drive me crazy.

Bran Tse Mallory · Sep 21, 2015

Excellent work!

One thing I still do not understand (There is lots I have no clue about but this is one that bugs me). Why is the Yaw so nerfed?

We are in space and there is no reason (other than a devs) as to why the yaw would be less than the roll or pitch changes.

Poseidal · Sep 21, 2015

Sayne said:
So at zero throttle and full throttle an Anaconda turns faster than all the Cobra tier ships, Asp tier ships except the Vulture (then only a little slower), and turns MUCH faster than Python or FDL.

Suffice to say that is completely ridiculous for something as huge as that, and explains why fighting an Elite one is so hard when they boost away and flip around on a dime -- because they literally turn faster than a fighter with a tiny fraction of its mass at full or zero throttle.

I've gotta ask if that is a bug or if it's working as intended.

Because, again, that's ridiculous.

Edit-- also massive, long and heavy Imperial Clippers turn better than Vipers in the blue zone. Come on, really?

It pays for it in thruster power.

Cmdr. Numa · Sep 21, 2015

Bran Tse Mallory said:
Excellent work!

One thing I still do not understand (There is lots I have no clue about but this is one that bugs me). Why is the Yaw so nerfed?

We are in space and there is no reason (other than a devs) as to why the yaw would be less than the roll or pitch changes.

Developer choice. They have the WW2 warplanes in space concept, and those roll and pitch in fight. Good yaw would mean turrets in space, they don't want that. Though some ships are pretty good at it, Clipper and Federal Assault ship.