Planet Zoo 2 Speculation and ideas

Hey there, I've been thinking of Planet Zoo 2 and what I would need most, so here I share all of it. I made a new topic about that but it could be interesting here too.
My feedbacks come after a looooot of hours on Planet Zoo's Franchise Mod (my most played game by far) and after I looked some of Planet Coaster 2 and Jurassic World Evolution 3 additions. Also after testing Prehistoric Kingdom which is another serious proposition in the genre. I will refer to them but I clearly don't want to mix all of these. Each has his own identity but obviously they somehow live together and impact themselves.
I'm totally open to critics, so feel free to discuss. I haven't thought of everything and I may forget some problems/downsides on my different ideas and wishes. Also please forgive my English it may be approximative sometimes.
Here we go !


- Main concern : Globally, there is an absence of rewards for commitment in genes, conservation, and efforts in zoos. The main mechanic, customization and creativity in building (habitats or facilities) is wonderful. But apart from that, all the other mechanics feel like shy attempts. They're all good ideas, so I feel like they have to step up and being deepened in Planet Zoo 2.


- Inbreeding :

Problem : Inbreeding is not a real problem, gameplay mechanics can even make its impacts inexistant. I feel that inbreeding penalties was a good idea to encourage people mixing genes but isn't deep enough. Finally in Planet Zoo it's not a problem, a lot of people end-up doing inbreeding to have skin variants easily. You can even have perfect animals while inbreeding (playing with the fastest speed in a park, leaving animals doing inbreeding several time until it works)...

Solution : It needs a rework. I assume that inbreeding is a serious problem for animals in captivity so let's keep it in this simulation game. So it needs to really affect genes, making them worst and worst. Being unable to enhance genes with inbreeding (easiest way), or with no possibility to finally, with time, have good genes (harder to manage).
Another possibility is to make animals born from inbreeding unable to breed, or make every animal unable to mate with family members.
Those solutions aren't realistic obviously but hey, it's a game and a game needs to step away from reality sometime, but on purpose.


- Conservation (new mechanic) :

Problem : Poor conservation commitment. Very good to make it a focus point at the very least in Planet Zoo marketing but you've done more. Again mechanically it feels dispensable. There is a lack of "ecological" feeling. I'm not feeling like my zoos act for conservation.

Solution : A way to strengthen that could be, like for real zoos, to finance conservation programs. Animals which are not of least concern interest for conservation could be locked until you keep financing programs all over the world. It could somehow be similar to dig sites in Jurassic World and Prehistoric Kingdom. Some sites around the world could be adapted to create preserved areas for several species. So on a worldmap you have sites for every in game species. If you finance those sites you can have access to the least threatened species, breed them, reintroduce them and then gain access to more threatened species. Having several steps for each site (and several financial contribution steps) adds a lot of progression and rewards. It could also give educational bonus for those species.
If you stop financing them you lose bonuses and the ability to buy those animals on the market until you finance it again. Or just have access to mediocre genes animals but it could be less motivating to contribute for conservation and stimulate people to use the gene system. I think it should work as Research, for the entire Franchise. Meaning unlocked animals and progression are the same between your zoos. If you worked on a site and unlocked all animals in it with one of your zoos, if you go to another one, you still need to finance the site with the new zoo to access animals, but you don't have to go through each step so you can directly have threatened animals.


- Genetic Mechanic :

Problem : Every efforts in genes selection are too difficult/fragile to maintain the will to do that. Genetic is a very great idea for a zoo game, also it would need to be fleshed out in depth. For having animals with really great genes we have no reward. Worst we depend (in franchise mod) on other players who are not really encouraged to have better genes, to maintain genes diversity AND quality. The market is overloaded with "exception" animals having a leucistic gene or other variants. Even when they actually have a normal skin, very (too) often they have the gene and you end-up having offsprings with variants too. If you want "normal" animals to stay close to realistic population, with good genes, you're almost totally screwed. So you end-up having farms to have in your zoos a large enough population, allowing you to have breeding projects while not saying goodbye to your genetic efforts.

Solution : The new gameplay mechanic I imagined (next point) could somehow reward gene progression. I think that if animal rating (and so guest attractivity) better reflects the genes of your animals it would be another motivation for doing quality breeding programs.


- Releasing to the Wild and Gene System (new mechanic) :

Problem : As I said earlier, there is a lack of "ecological" feeling. I do breed animals but if they have unwanted skin variants or genes I end up selling them to other players most of the time. And if they don't sell I throw them away by releasing them to the wild. So I end-up releasing poor genes animals (or poor use for contribution, like leucistic variants) and keeping the others to enhance genes or keep genes at max. That's not really a great action for conservation. To reward releasing to the wild, and gene selection, I imagined the next mechanic.

Solution : So for example you can only have animals with mediocre genes at the beginning. Then if you are doing selection and upgrading genes, if you release to the wild X animals with medium genes, you can then buy likewise animals on the market. Going further you release X animals with good genes, then you can buy good genes on the market. Etc until you have 100% for the first 2 gene types which is the final step. With each step you can't go back to lower quality animals (at least for "Frontier Zoo" animals). It's essential otherwise efforts keep being fragile and you can lose what you've done.
I think it would add progression and reward to the gene system while reintroducing animals on purpose and not, like it is right now, to throw animals away, because they don't sell or don't have expected genes.
A question remains about endgame : If you have done it to all species in the game then what ? You can say that you never have a step with 100% Size and Longevity genes, which isn't satisfying to me. Or you can ask the player (through missions maybe but they need to be logically rewarding) to regularly reintroduce animals with those genes and financing conservation programs to keep the right of buying them on the market. Animals from the market not being able to be released obviously, as they are now.
A way to motivate players could be with a kind of status bar, slowly decaying with time. Needing reintroduction to get filled. If the bar isn't high enough you lose bonuses (concerned animal and zoo ratings for example, so less guests and less donations).


- Franchise mod :

With the two points (conservation & gene system) above it enhances the franchise feel. Because as you are a franchise, your progress must be for the whole franchise. I don't want to have to pass through all the steps I described to unlock species or to have good genes when I open a new Zoo.
So this is somehow linked to what we already have in the Franchise Successes : The medals for buying/raising/releasing animals but... Making it rewarding and making the player more invested.


- Animal variants :

Problem : This is a great part of the game and feel like one of the most enjoyed by players. Not for me but I can't be blind to that. Those animals should have more guest appeal than others but if so, this would encourage people to have only those animals in their park. And it's already overloading the market, so it needs something to balance that.

Solution : It could be by having an appeal bonus for variants, so more guests come, but poor conservation value : Not counting in the "conservation" rating, can't being sold for conservation credit (or at less lower prices to still enable trade between players if conservation credits remains the only money for that) and can't be reintroduced. They would also not count for the mechanics I explained above.
This could make everyone happy : It recognizes the value of it for players by having an impact on guest appeal while encouraging people to have normal animals because you can't rely on variants for everything linked to conservation. You could then imagine an optimised gameplay having one enclosure for "basic" tigers and another with white tigers. You have then both bonuses, more guests, more money, and you contribute to conservation. Or in franchise mod doing one or the other depending in which park you are and what you want, as conservation and genetic mechanics count for the whole franchise.


- Animal Rating :

Problem : Between individuals with different ratings, within the same specie, there is no real consequence and impact. So as I said, I want genes selection to be rewarded, and variants too.

Solution : It could be by adding some bonuses for skin variant (a relatively big one), for each gene quality and for financing a conservation program linked to the specimen. There is already bonuses for having babies (and so for taking part of a breeding program) so it could work the same way.


- Zoo Rating :

Problem : It's way too easy to have 5 stars, in every sector.

Solution : No particular plan, I suppose it's easy to add progression and to make it longer to achieve with all implemented mechanics and ideas I've listed.


- Guests :

Types : A system of different guest types like in Jurassic World Evolution could be interesting. For exampl, those who enjoy conservation would donate more for species you're committed to and if you have a good overhaul rating in conservation they would be more numerous in the park. Same with those who are interested in knowledge etc...


Vision : The system for guests exploring enclosures needs a rework as well. I don't know exactly how it's working but they seem to be blind... It's really annoying that they can't see animals at 10m. They also seem to go at a spot, as close to an animal as possible, but if the animal go they are like "mmh... This animal is not visible". Well yeah, it lives and goes around the enclosure, if you stay looking in that direction, effectively, you can't see it. But because animals are living, guests end-up having bad impressions about an enclosure, being most of the time disappointed.
It could be change to a kind of "bar" filling when they actually see the animal, and they keep exploring until it's full. If they take more time because you didn't make a good enclosure it can still make them disappointed but it will also affect you cash flow as they're not spending money in your park while exploring.

Pathfinding : The way that guests adapt to your constructions in Prehistoric Kingdom feels like a really big advantage for that kind of building game. Like in Planet Zoo it was a revolution for animals to adapt to player's constructions, guests adapt themselves too. It feels really rewarding when they explore your constructions like you wanted.
It pushes forward the satisfaction feeling : You make an enclosure and animals occupy the space like you wanted, and furthermore you construct guest facilities and they use it like expected. Double reward when you open a new area.


- Hitboxes :

They are often too big for me. Don't know how hard it is to make them better though. For rocks, trees and objects they deteriorate the quality of animations. Animals often move in a straight line, stop, turn, advance, to avoid objects. Better hitboxes could make them less jerky and more fluid.


- Animals :

Shyness : I have to say that for zoo animals, those of Planet Zoo are reaaaaally shy. It felt a good idea to introduce that, really. But here again it needs some tweaks. Animals in zoos are used to being observed by dozens of people. Some need more privacy and calm than others it's true but the action for that are already in the game.
As an example : Red deer, I made an enclosure with people able to see them directly around the water pond. The rest of the enclosure is heavily lush, with one way glass and they are stressed very often. I've never seen a real Zoo having this problem : Lots of animals are really okay being watched by humans. Same for gazelles. In addition to making them less shy, the changes between stress status could be more dynamic, more reactive. If they began to have their stress bar going down, they seek shelter right away. If they go behind a rock, unvisible to guests, or at distance from guests, the comfort bar starts going up right away and more and more quickly.

Herding : Animals living in groups really lack the herding system. They always scatter around enclosures, not feeling like a group. It's really problematic in multi species enclosures. In zoos I've always seen species moving in groups, chilling in groups. From carnivores to herbivores, monkeys like reptilians. If they live in a group they really stick together. It would emphasizes the system you made with bonds between individuals, and could also act as a stress regulator. Prehistoric Kingdom did a great job with this so it could be similar. Different group cohesions and behaviours between species.

Animations : Too often they go from laid down to running over which isn't realistic. Animals in zoos look peaceful (when requirements and needs fulfilled). They may run from time to time to chase themselves, playing or maintaining hierarchy but in Planet Zoo they just run with no reason (In fact there is one : I HAD WATER IN MY ENCLOSURE BUT DIDN'T DRANK NOW I'M DYING I NEED WATER ! RUN !).
They also lack a step between walking and running. In Jurassic World Evolution or Prehistoric Kingdom there are animations like trotting which is waaaaay more realistic than the running option for navigating the enclosure. With an amelioration on the behaviour I described for the hitboxes it would be another step further into realism.

Jumps : I have also a real problem with jumps in Planet Zoo. They have been enhanced since day one which is good, but they still seem floating in air a bit when jumping. They also need a loooot of concentration before jumping. Overhaul jumping looks really weird so I feel like I would prefer this not to exist in game if it stays like that. Otherwise it needs to be way less jerky but needs a lot of work so not a priority I'd say.

Seamless growth for baby animals : I must admit it is really satisfying to observe in Prehistoric Kingdom. But I see it as a minor wish. I suppose it would need too much work to have this for each species, and if I have to choose, I prefer having more species than this functionality for each.

Realistic animals : The incredible work your teams have done for DLC animals along Planet Zoo life is fantastic. Always got better ! Base game animals end up looking more cartoony somehow and with very less details. I think everyone agrees that we want quality animals, like those of the most recent DLCs. I have to say that Damas Gazelle, White Rhino or African Wild Ass blew me away !

Exhibits : I have a problem with exhibit animals. They are a must have in the game but they seem to only be moneymakers... They would greatly benefit from being like habitat animals, with proper animations and behaviours, gene selection, reintroduction and market between players.

Do I have to say birds ? Obviously a must have in zoos with real flying ones, like habitat animals we have.

Little species : As you did along the DLCs, adding more little species would be great, for example little monkeys, tamarins or mouse deers (and birds !).


- Construction Pieces :

Modifying pieces size : The possibility to do it, as in Prehistoric Kingdom or Planet Coaster 2, is a must for builders I'd say. So in Planet Zoo 2 it needs to be in !

List : The way Prehistoric Kingdom sorts building pieces is interesting to me as it allows to easily change between different styles. You have a basic 4m wall and then you choose the texture. In a group you can switch from one to another rapidly.
 
I get why a lot of people see PZ1 as just fine and any PZ2 improvements as not a big deal, but for people like myself, any significant upgrade to Franchise gameplay would make PZ2 a must-buy for me. I get that PZ is a build-focused game, but that doesn't mean Franchise gameplay cannot be upgraded to make it more entertaining and, I'm just gonna say it, not the total snooze-fest it is now.

Sure, a new pathing system would be great, as well as a bunch of improvements to things like the trade market, education, exhibits, etc., but giving some love to Franchise Mode would be pretty awesome.
 
I get why a lot of people see PZ1 as just fine and any PZ2 improvements as not a big deal, but for people like myself, any significant upgrade to Franchise gameplay would make PZ2 a must-buy for me. I get that PZ is a build-focused game, but that doesn't mean Franchise gameplay cannot be upgraded to make it more entertaining and, I'm just gonna say it, not the total snooze-fest it is now.

Sure, a new pathing system would be great, as well as a bunch of improvements to things like the trade market, education, exhibits, etc., but giving some love to Franchise Mode would be pretty awesome.
I want it to be what it is now + progression and ZT2 style challenges/ events to role play that my zoo is in a bigger world. Like an Earthquake happening, or workers on strike, trading with a zoo, or a celebrity visiting. Things like that go so far for me and is the whole reason I stuck to challenge mode in zt2
 
I only play sandbox mode (and the ocasional challenge when i'm bored and don't feel like spending hours building something) so i care mostly about animal and scenery quality and variety over management game play. I do like the idea of Franchise mode, i just don't like to play with so many restriction on how i can build a habitat. I like my habitats to be functional of course but not in detriment of looks or stuff like foliage selection.

Having that in mind i wonder how would dlc packs for the sequel look like. I mean they've kept the same format for the JW franchise... I don't really expect them to change them for PZ but it would be nice of they do add more animals in scenery packs (maybe not 8 but at least 5 for habitat and 1 exhibit). And i think packs should be have more variety in animal selection. Base game should launch with a good base for every continent so we don't re do DLC themes (for instance continents) and maybe focus in specificregions or countries (i would really like packs based on specific countries... Not all countries would be dlc material but a lot of them have huge biodiversity to fill a whole pack and still don't feel restricted: mexico, brazil, peru, argentina, USA, Canada, india, china, japan, spain, kenia, tanzania, congo, ethiopia, southafrica, madagascar, etc. Or even regions: amazon, andes, patagonia, himalayas, caribbean, sahara, mediterranean, arabic peninsula, etc.

I also really like biome based packs so i hope they do more of those: coastal, rainforesta, desert, shrublands, mountains/highlands, freshwater, etc.

And i think we should get at least one bird and one reptile for dlc be it through exhibits (if exhibtis are better and reworked entirerly specially if that's the future of flying birds) or habitat (mostly habitat).
 
I get why a lot of people see PZ1 as just fine and any PZ2 improvements as not a big deal, but for people like myself, any significant upgrade to Franchise gameplay would make PZ2 a must-buy for me. I get that PZ is a build-focused game, but that doesn't mean Franchise gameplay cannot be upgraded to make it more entertaining and, I'm just gonna say it, not the total snooze-fest it is now.

Sure, a new pathing system would be great, as well as a bunch of improvements to things like the trade market, education, exhibits, etc., but giving some love to Franchise Mode would be pretty awesome.
I’m personally in this Camp. Animals die too quickly to get attached, there is also no behaviors like herding. Once I build something and “get the ball rolling” (staff, putting the habitat in a work zone, etc) the game plays itself.

In general I want to see this (not including birds and new animals):
  1. Slow down the time scale. In 2-3 hours of gameplay it feels like 100 years go by. In fact time flys by so any changes in seasons just results as something annoying as opposed to an important gameplay feature. This will also help me get more attached to my animals, they won’t kick the bucket after an hour.
  2. Give better herding/ flocking/ pack/ pride/ troop behavior. It would make me like hoofstock more if they acted like herding animals and not just a field of individual creatures. Not to mention watching more cute animations happen can be a plus.
  3. Zookeeper mode. Not only will this be a fun way to pass the time, there is an actual benefit as you can save money in earlier play throughs by not hiring anyone.
  4. Increased focus on conservation: be able to properly set up breeding programs, coordinate with other zoos, maybe even do field work and go to the wild. Imagine a cross between ZT3 and JWE2 mechanics. Maybe you can have a special endangered species breeding center, and you can send staff abroad to help animals in the wild.
  5. With a slow down of seasons make special events happen. Set up a school summer program in the zoo, do some special “boo at the zoo” events for Halloween, have Santa arrive for Christmas. These are just some examples but I think everyone will get the idea.
  6. Also other special events can be cool: “The local police have just apprehended an illegal shipment of animals, are you capable of taking in: x,y, and/or z?” I think this would be a fun way of adding personality to your animals and zoo. Likewise imagine getting a reports of local injured animals, having to nurse them back to health, and then they may not be releasable.
Basically I just need more options to do things other than build.
 
I want it to be what it is now + progression and ZT2 style challenges/ events to role play that my zoo is in a bigger world. Like an Earthquake happening, or workers on strike, trading with a zoo, or a celebrity visiting. Things like that go so far for me and is the whole reason I stuck to challenge mode in zt2
Absolutely. I can't play Sandbox because my brain knows there is no challenge, so I have to go with Franchise, but once you've got a couple habitats and enclosures, you basically are on easy mode until your computer can no longer handle the load.
I’m personally in this Camp. Animals die too quickly to get attached, there is also no behaviors like herding. Once I build something and “get the ball rolling” (staff, putting the habitat in a work zone, etc) the game plays itself.

In general I want to see this (not including birds and new animals):
  1. Slow down the time scale. In 2-3 hours of gameplay it feels like 100 years go by. In fact time flys by so any changes in seasons just results as something annoying as opposed to an important gameplay feature. This will also help me get more attached to my animals, they won’t kick the bucket after an hour.
  2. Give better herding/ flocking/ pack/ pride/ troop behavior. It would make me like hoofstock more if they acted like herding animals and not just a field of individual creatures. Not to mention watching more cute animations happen can be a plus.
  3. Zookeeper mode. Not only will this be a fun way to pass the time, there is an actual benefit as you can save money in earlier play throughs by not hiring anyone.
  4. Increased focus on conservation: be able to properly set up breeding programs, coordinate with other zoos, maybe even do field work and go to the wild. Imagine a cross between ZT3 and JWE2 mechanics. Maybe you can have a special endangered species breeding center, and you can send staff abroad to help animals in the wild.
  5. With a slow down of seasons make special events happen. Set up a school summer program in the zoo, do some special “boo at the zoo” events for Halloween, have Santa arrive for Christmas. These are just some examples but I think everyone will get the idea.
  6. Also other special events can be cool: “The local police have just apprehended an illegal shipment of animals, are you capable of taking in: x,y, and/or z?” I think this would be a fun way of adding personality to your animals and zoo. Likewise imagine getting a reports of local injured animals, having to nurse them back to health, and then they may not be releasable.
Basically I just need more options to do things other than build.

1. I play on speed 4 which helps to slow things down a bit, but still not a ton.
2. I never cared much about the herding initially, but the more I see a mixed African habitat and all the animals are just roaming about randomly as individuals, the more I realize herding of some type is actually important.
3. Yes. This would be great.
4. The lack of conservation(along with education) is probably the most glaring omission from PZ1.
5. Seasons would be cool. I don't see it as a priority, but I've seen a lot of people mention it, so clearly it would be a popular metric, depending on how they implement it.
6. This is actually one of my biggest wants. A random event tracker that you can turn off and on at any time. You get the opportunity to care for some free animals, and sometimes you may get to keep them, other times they are temporary. Frontier could make it deeper with bonuses for helping and penalties for not. Perhaps a unique decoration/animal educational items could be unlocked by caring for certain animals in this scenario. Or just keep it basic. The opportunities are endless with this.
 
My beef with the concept of "seasons" is that I don't want to be forced to build interior facilities all the time. That said as long as it could be turned off, then I don't really care - I already turn off the current weather system.

Anyway, I don't think it's reasonable to expect so many massive changes. We have three major examples of CMS sequels already; JWE2, PC2, and now JWE3. Why are you all suggesting huge system overhauls when we know those aren't coming?

Some things are reasonable to expect:
- some sort of update to the exhibit system, sure; it's a system currently so bad that Frontier stopped providing exhibit animals entirely. This needs to be updated. It's not really a zoo without these smaller animals, after all. What such an update looks like, who knows, but I'm not expecting ground-breaking changes. More varieties in exhibit boxes is probably the most realistic expectation for this.
- birds and aviaries. Again, I don't expect anything huge here. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if we ended up with something modular like in JWE2 and JWE3. A basic small unit that can be combined with other units to make something bigger. However, it seems clear that Frontier has withheld birds for something, so it's not unreasonable to imagine they'll come in the sequel.
- The new features from PC2; the pathing system, building system, dark interior system, scaling system, foliage brush, etc. Porting these over to PZ2 is a given.
- Herding and other new animal behaviours. While not a "given" in the same way as some other things are, this doesn't seem unreasonable to expect. Animal AI improved between JWE and JWE2 and seems to have improved between JWE2 and JWE3. Not silly to expect it to improve between PZ games.

Progression aging, a full seasons system - things like these seem a bit out there.
 
My beef with the concept of "seasons" is that I don't want to be forced to build interior facilities all the time. That said as long as it could be turned off, then I don't really care - I already turn off the current weather system.

Anyway, I don't think it's reasonable to expect so many massive changes. We have three major examples of CMS sequels already; JWE2, PC2, and now JWE3. Why are you all suggesting huge system overhauls when we know those aren't coming?

Some things are reasonable to expect:
- some sort of update to the exhibit system, sure; it's a system currently so bad that Frontier stopped providing exhibit animals entirely. This needs to be updated. It's not really a zoo without these smaller animals, after all. What such an update looks like, who knows, but I'm not expecting ground-breaking changes. More varieties in exhibit boxes is probably the most realistic expectation for this.
- birds and aviaries. Again, I don't expect anything huge here. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if we ended up with something modular like in JWE2 and JWE3. A basic small unit that can be combined with other units to make something bigger. However, it seems clear that Frontier has withheld birds for something, so it's not unreasonable to imagine they'll come in the sequel.
- The new features from PC2; the pathing system, building system, dark interior system, scaling system, foliage brush, etc. Porting these over to PZ2 is a given.
- Herding and other new animal behaviours. While not a "given" in the same way as some other things are, this doesn't seem unreasonable to expect. Animal AI improved between JWE and JWE2 and seems to have improved between JWE2 and JWE3. Not silly to expect it to improve between PZ games.

Progression aging, a full seasons system - things like these seem a bit out there.
How else are going to give them ideas or talk about what we want if we’re confined to what is deemed “reasonable” most things at some point in game dev were “unreasonable” until they weren’t
 
How else are going to give them ideas or talk about what we want if we’re confined to what is deemed “reasonable” most things at some point in game dev were “unreasonable” until they weren’t
I mean, none of the ideas anyone has presented are new or revolutionary. It's all just rehash anyway. Do you think Frontier doesn't already know what people want?

To be honest it sounds like you all are expecting a completely brand new game. Like the jump from Zoo Tycoon to Zoo Tycoon 2. We know very well that it's not going to be that.
 
A system that would make me instantly buy a sequel is that the location of your zoo actively alters events and gameplay.

For example: if your zoo is set in North America, you can get animals such as bison, raccoons and skunks very easily from events, join a specific set of organizations and programs, etc. While a zoo in South America, said events and animals match that of the continent.

Would be something interesting in Franchise mode.
 
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I mean, none of the ideas anyone has presented are new or revolutionary. It's all just rehash anyway. Do you think Frontier doesn't already know what people want?

To be honest it sounds like you all are expecting a completely brand new game. Like the jump from Zoo Tycoon to Zoo Tycoon 2. We know very well that it's not going to be that.
I don’t think anything mentioned makes that leap tbh. A seasons system wouldn’t even be crazy they already have snow, just make it snow more in winter, be hotter in summer add the sunburn system and guest shade system that’s ALREADY in PC2 and there you go. Add in trees changing color in fall for aesthetic or something
 
A system that would make me instantly buy a sequel is that the location of your zoo actively alters events and gameplay.

For example: if your zoo is set in North America, you can get animals such as bison, raccoons and skunks very easily for events, join a specific set of organizations and programs, etc. While a zoo in South America, said events and animals match that of the continent.

Would be something interesting in Franchise mode.
I agree location should matter more for weather and stuff as well. (It kind of slightly matters already just people are less interested in animals from the continent you build on) I Hate building a zoo in Florida and it keeps snowing.
 
I don’t think anything mentioned makes that leap tbh. A seasons system wouldn’t even be crazy they already have snow, just make it snow more in winter, be hotter in summer add the sunburn system and guest shade system that’s ALREADY in PC2 and there you go. Add in trees changing color in fall for aesthetic or something
"Just make it".

The weather system and dating system aren't aligned on the current engine, and thus far it seems they aren't aligned on the new engine (PC2) either.

That's already possibly a big ask. You don't know whether they can "just" make anything. You should always assume that if they haven't done something already, it either can't be done or is more trouble than it's worth (aligning weather and seasons seems like it would fall under the latter).

Anyway, dynamically changing trees is also a huge ask that would make massive demands on performance. And for what? Why would I want them to spend resources on that?

It's kind of funny to me. On the one hand we have people saying "the game is perfect and doesn't need a sequel", and then on the other we have people who want to completely transform the game.

When we know that what we'll end up getting is something right in the middle.
 
"Just make it".

The weather system and dating system aren't aligned on the current engine, and thus far it seems they aren't aligned on the new engine (PC2) either.

That's already possibly a big ask. You don't know whether they can "just" make anything. You should always assume that if they haven't done something already, it either can't be done or is more trouble than it's worth (aligning weather and seasons seems like it would fall under the latter).

Anyway, dynamically changing trees is also a huge ask that would make massive demands on performance. And for what? Why would I want them to spend resources on that?

It's kind of funny to me. On the one hand we have people saying "the game is perfect and doesn't need a sequel", and then on the other we have people who want to completely transform the game.

When we know that what we'll end up getting is something right in the middle.
I understand that, but this is also a AAA gaming studio here, let’s not act like some different colored trees and making weather (they already made btw) more frequent is some impossible task. When you ask why would you want them to spend resources on that my reply is simply, “why not?” Shouldn’t we ask more of our products that we pay for. It’s been done before, it’s not something that is remaking the wheel here. I understand that realistically we’re looking at a JWE to JWE2 or 3 type upgrade here but I think that we should be allowed to hop on the forum and yap about ideas that are cool whether they are realistic or not. And this one really doesn’t seem like one to die on the hill of un-feasibility tbh. PC2 is one change away from already having this system in place.
 
I understand that, but this is also a AAA gaming studio here, let’s not act like some different colored trees and making weather (they already made btw) more frequent is some impossible task.
Just want to say something about something specific here but changing the colors of the trees or foliage in general based on seasons sounds cool in theory; but would be a massive performance hit because you can't control the amount of foliage pieces a person places. You can only optimize it so far, it will always get to a point where it will cause lag. Not just when changing, but just having it as a system to begin with.

People already have a hard time grasping the concept of "hey this is a creative sandbox game, we won't set limits but you'll hit it once your machine hits it" when it comes to piece count and guest count; if you introduce a feature like that it's just going to get even more difficult. Even when you make it toggable.

I'd say it's one of those things that currently isn't possible to do consistently enough across your entire player base and Frontier does kind of have to at least attempt that. Give it another 5 years and larger group of people will be on higher end machines; then a feature like that is going to make much more sense.
 
I mean, none of the ideas anyone has presented are new or revolutionary. It's all just rehash anyway. Do you think Frontier doesn't already know what people want?

To be honest it sounds like you all are expecting a completely brand new game. Like the jump from Zoo Tycoon to Zoo Tycoon 2. We know very well that it's not going to be that.
I think I see your point, and if I stick to realism I do agree but for me it's not the idea here.
I totally agree that nothing is revolutionary but even if Frontier has those ideas in stock, nothing tells they will deliver it. Even if players want it.
They remain a lucrative studio. So if we stick to realism they would very probably try to make maximum money out of it, while trying its best to keep players with them.
Without a lot of games in this specific genre (the only true competitor I see is Prehistoric Kingdom which is so far from finished), and without people discussing on the forums, they can just do what they want while having no real indicator on how players feel and what they want.
We also know that Frontier take care of their games after release, so they can prepare future changes now to make them happen later. At least look at their feasibility and if it's relevant or not.
That said it feels normal to discuss here and without sticking to only what we can expect. It's not about guessing what we'll have for me, but what we want. Even if we are few (and so, not representative of the community) it's better said and shared. For us, so we can see if we share wishes or see why what we want isn't a good idea, and for Frontier.

And for the ideas discussed, although it would need work, Frontier is a relatively big studio, they are not a small unexperienced team. The majority doesn't feel really new or game changer (in a way that it won't be "Planet Zoo") but just things already there pushed further.
 
Just want to say something about something specific here but changing the colors of the trees or foliage in general based on seasons sounds cool in theory; but would be a massive performance hit because you can't control the amount of foliage pieces a person places. You can only optimize it so far, it will always get to a point where it will cause lag. Not just when changing, but just having it as a system to begin with.

People already have a hard time grasping the concept of "hey this is a creative sandbox game, we won't set limits but you'll hit it once your machine hits it" when it comes to piece count and guest count; if you introduce a feature like that it's just going to get even more difficult. Even when you make it toggable.

I'd say it's one of those things that currently isn't possible to do consistently enough across your entire player base and Frontier does kind of have to at least attempt that. Give it another 5 years and larger group of people will be on higher end machines; then a feature like that is going to make much more sense.
I would much rather have the seasons just be different pieces than suffer the performance issues that would exist if every piece of foliage became a changeable entity.
 
My wish would be summer/generic versions of trees as we have now plus one with autumn foliage and another winter version without leaves where appropriate. They’d be separate pieces.

I would love to make a real time four seasons zoo but it’s impossible with the lack of winter and autumn foliage and the lack of snow (except when actively falling) on maps other than tundra.
 
I would much rather have the seasons just be different pieces than suffer the performance issues that would exist if every piece of foliage became a changeable entity.
If we get a system like planet coaster where it goes on days, then this won’t be an issue. They can have something like a load screen between the days and when the next day comes up it can transition into a new season if it’s time and the trees will just load with their new variants. (This will hypothetically be for modes other than Sandbox so sandbox will be without seasons and load screens). It doesn’t have to be a seamless progressive change

But tbh, take out the trees changing colors, what is so hard about just making the in game temperature lower and making snow more common in the winter time? Using what the game already has in it
 
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